Elliott

You think NATO would attack Russia, the largest nuclear stockpiler, that's ludicrous. Have you seen how big Russia is on a map, they need 4 oblasts for a buffer.

@Breakingthewall You can see the line on satelite images. https://www.businessinsider.com › ukraine-kursk-shows-ability... Ukraine Showing It Can Win Without West's Advice: Retired NATO General ... Sep 3, 2024 · A retired general who helped lead NATO said it shows what Ukraine can do without much Western advice. "Ukraine can win this

Ukrainian troops are going to choose to die for the u.s., ya right. Critical thinking please, not only would troops defect, Zelensky is easy to overthrow.

If that were true you would just see defections from Ukraines military to Russia and the war would be over, you see the opposite. Nothing you post makes sense past basic critical thinking. What does zelensky have to gain from losing a war as you say is imminent, while just needing to pull back from nato to end the war.

I said Putin would likely be overthrown, that would be the end of the war. There's no reason Russia would be concerned about NATO unless their intention is to control Ukraine, Putin himself publicly stated for years that Ukraine was to be under Russia. That's demonstrably false, Russias first incursion was for Kyiv, of which your elite military failed miserably against sleeping Ukraine. You don't understand modern warfare, there's no need to sacrifice Ukrainians to keep Russia from advancing as slow as they are, Defensive positions are better for wars of attrition, not offensive like Russia is doing, you can see it in their losses. Business Insider https://www.businessinsider.com › russia-economy-wealth-fund... "Russia Economy: Wealth Fund Could Run Out This Year, Cripple War Effort ... Jan 14, 2025 · Russia is facing a critical challenge to its war effort in 2025: The nation is quickly running out of cash, with financial reserves"

Whether Ukraine joins NATO or not, doesn't threaten RUSSIA though, Ukraine can already join in any assault the u.s. orchestrates, NATO is a defensive alliance, the u.s. has non NATO countries it allies with militarily to overthrow regimes already, see Syria and Israel. Ukraine joining NATO makes zero difference, Ukraine can already attack Russia with the u.s. Russia, the largest stockpile of nuclear warheads is afraid of conventional warfare in the 21st century? No, it's about Russian imperialism. True, the u.s. could use close cultural ties to overthrow a Russian dictator, why would they overthrow a peaceful leader though? That renders the argument moot for anyone other than a dictator, I can't imagine you believe the world should sacrifice Ukraine for Putin's musings. NATO is not a country it's a defensive alliance Ukraine wants in because Russia toppled it's neighbors before Ukraine ever tried to join nato, see chechnya. First off, I'm not arguing for anything u.s. to be allowed in Ukraine, that would be imperialist. China wouldn't do that, there's no reason to in a nuclear world. I don't think the u.s. would invade Mexico, either way i would oppose it. They would cut them off economically and build bases in Taiwan. China already has military ties in the Americas by the way. They would likely lift some sanctions on energy but I don't think European leaders trust Russia anymore and will cut every other tie they can which will prevent any growth, otherwise why haven't they already agreed to that. No one cares about Ukraine joining NATO except Ukraine, you think Europe would cut sanctions but not cancel Ukraines bid for NATO, that makes no sense, if so what else does Russia want in your mind, why haven't they agreed?

I already admitted that Russia views it as an existential threat, to Russian expansion. Why don't you answer the simple question? No one is putting a nuke in Ukraine, do you really believe that? It makes no difference what NATO does anywhere,they are at a nuclear stalemate with Russia. Is NATO controlling Kosovo and Libya? Iraq? Russia needs to build a coalition diplomatically, no facade USSR is going to lead the world like they want. They're stuck in the 19th century way of thinking. If Russia would quit invading countries Ukraine would have no need to join NATO. Ask Chechnya why Ukraine and Georgia are interested in NATO. NATO was working with Russia and developing together, NATO didn't sabotage them. That's gone for decades now, Russia is done like Iran. The public is clueless about sanctions, does the public have outrage about sanctions on Iran, no.

It's going on 4 years, that only gained 1% last year, and had their heaviest losses, experts predict Russia can only sustain 2 years more at most, that's 2% more. Russia isn't winning the war, 1% last year, a year you claim to be their strongest, where they lost the most men and equipment, is not winning by any serious standard. Ukraine has military allies that makeup an equipment supply that dwarfs Russia. You're subscribing to a 19th century view on warfare. Sanctions are 21st century warfare, they alone have crumbled iran, this is why Ukraine is not acting more offensive. This is how warfare goes and Ukraine is winning, it's not men lining up to shoot at each other that determines wars anymore, we're way past bombs even.

Ukrainians support the war, that's why they're fighting on the front lines instead of surrendering like Russians. Why do you have no concerns for Russian lives, why shouldn't Russia leave Ukraine, they're having more Russians killed than Ukrainians are dying. Why do you value Ukrainians more than Russians.

You just keep lying and I don't understand why. Why are you trying to speak for Ukrainians and make their decisions? Russia has had more Russians killed, where is your concern for them? https://news.gallup.com › poll › ukrainians-stand-behind-war... "Ukrainians Stand Behind War Effort Despite Some Fatigue - Gallup.com Oct 9, 2023 · President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is a key figure in national support for the war. His personal approval ratings remain sky-high in 2023 (81%). Ukrainians who The People Stand Behind Their Military: Ukrainians’ faith in their troops remains unshakeable, with 95% having confidence in the military in 2023, in line with the"

Last year Russia only took less than 1% of Ukraine. The bulk of Russias position is from the beginning of the invasion. Russia thought they would take all of Ukraine in 3 days, it's going on 4 years, they gained 1% last year. Why do you think you should tell Ukraine what to do? Russia has lost more people.

1% last year. That's not winning.

Russia only took less than 1% of Ukraine last year, that's barely anything and in a rural area, it's weird you're making it seem so alarming. Why do you act like you care so much about Ukraine's wellbeing, then you want them to capitulate while they are wanting to fight? Why do you care so much about getting Ukraine to let Russia takeover their country?

Why do you act like you care so much about Ukraine's wellbeing, then you want them to capitulate while they are wanting to fight? Why do you care so much about getting Ukraine to let Russia takeover their country? Ukraine is using war of attrition tactics, this allows the enemy to advance slowly, but while also bleeding out. It would take Russia 50 years to get to Kyiv at their rate, 2024 Russia only gained 1% of Ukraine, meanwhile Europe is training a new Ukrainian army while Russia is growing more reliant on pitch fork farmers for fighting. BulgarianMilitary.com https://bulgarianmilitary.com › war-tanks-running-out... War tanks running out? Russia faces alarming shortage by 2025 Dec 10, 2024 · Compounding this issue is the visible degradation of Russia’s manufacturing capabilities. Recent models of the T-90M, one What, you think the u.s. is somehow forcing Ukraine to fight, Biden announced before the war began that Russia would overthrow Kyiv in 3 days. Why doesn't Ukraine stop fighting if that's what they want. I think you're comically brainwashed.

Ukraine joining NATO creates no greater threat to Russian defense, do you think otherwise? You think the west wants to spend billions funding a proxy war purely to attack Russia, with destabilizing their own world, but they wouldn't be willing to maintain sanctions to hurt Russia without destabilizing the world. Ridiculous. And if they are morally opposed to invasion it's the same thing, Russia will obviously continue to invade their smaller neighbors, so their morality will be suspended out of retardation?

No one serious takes them serious

You just keep repeating the same things that you've already been proven wrong about. War in Afghanistan ended the Soviet Union, Ukraine is putting up a much better fight and Russia is taking massive losses both militarily and economically. Europe was Russia's largest customer, a market that Russia is incapable of replacing, and they support Ukraine with an endless supply of sophisticated weapons.

Western expansion into the middle east is a serious threat to Russia because of the oil. Russia maintains a hegemony in the old soviet block in Asia, this could greatly weaken that as well, Kazakhstan has already been distancing from Russia. Libya is another, again oil. There's no doubt that Israel will be infiltrating for a revolution after Republicans unrelenting support. No they don't, how can the country with the most nukes be afraid of Ukraine in NATO, they view it as an existential threat to Russian expansion. You believe NATO is an offensive force? It's a defense alliance, not offense. It's not NATO taking over Ukraine, Ukraine would be able to leave NATO for Russia even. How is the cost of the current war worth it but future wars wouldn't be, how is it worth it for the little land Russia is gaining? Why should Ukraine concede anything then, either they can beat Russia long term or they can't. Conceding land to Russia weakens Ukraine and strengthens Russia for future wars. Why do you think Europe is supporting Ukraine at all then? I gathered you thought it was out of self-interest, why would they then help Russia if they see them as an enemy? They're just helping Ukraine out of the goodness of their hearts, they trust Russia? Reuters https://www.reuters.com › business › energy

The U.S. department of ed mostly just funds poor school districts, most districts are funded locally and all are controlled locally, this is not a "government product".

What's the highest favorability you've seen for these terms, I'm not finding anything overwhelming? Russians want it to end with concessions even more, so why are you suggesting Ukraine concede based on polls instead of Russia? https://www.npr.org/2024/09/24/nx-s1-5123628/independent-study-suggests-russian-support-for-the-war-in-ukraine-is-complicated Russia's economy cannot handle any more war, Russians want the war ended. Reuters https://www.reuters.com › markets › europe › russian...

Yes they can, obviously. https://www.wsj.com/world/russia/angry-families-of-missing-russian-soldiers-want-answers-from-putin-3c460762?msockid=246b563026ed62ec150143b2276b63dc Because of Russia's losses in Ukraine, Russia has more Assads they can lose, Iran is on the verge of revolution right now, Russia will prioritize Russia over anything else, they will not sacrifice themselves for Ukraine. It would be the end of Ukraine, even if they only give up a small portion, Russia would obviously come back when they revive themselves in a few years, why wouldn't they? At what physical line in Ukraine do you say Ukraine should not give up territory past this point. If Ukraine gives up territory, that makes them weaker for the next time Russia invades, and makes Russia stronger. Putin has something to gain and everything to lose, the west is going to cutoff Russia for many moons even if Russia retreats tomorrow. If Putin can gain substantial territory in Ukraine it puts him in a better position politicaly.

That's a hysterical misrepresentation, of course Ukraine wants the war in their country to stop.... that doesn't mean they want Russian control, if they did they can just personally lay down their weapons on the front line and wave a white flag to Russia. Why do you believe these Ukrainians are dying fighting Russia instead of surrendering like Russian troops are to Ukraine.

Those numbers are based off obituaries, surely you don't believe Russia is sending word back to families when their troops die. Ukraine has the West for their equipment. And Just as Europe would not deplete their equipment for Ukraine, again Russia would not either being it is an offensive war for them, depleting Russia's military leaves them vulnerable to attack and especially their proxies like Assad for example. Russia cannot use up their military on Ukraine, Ukraine can on Russia given that it is a defensive war for them, Ukraine ceding to Russia is the end of Ukraine, they can expend 100% of their military and not be in any worse position than they are now, If Russia would expend 30% of their military it would be catastrophic for them geopolitically given the impending long term isolation from the West, look at Iran, Russia will be in the same boat. You cannot deny the dire state of the Russian economy, the GDP is only propped up by military spending. What gain can be had by more war in Ukraine? It's political poison even for Putin

700k was in November, 850 is 3 days ago. There's also a difference in willingness to support the war, Ukraine is defending their homes, Russia is imposing imperialist expansion,. There will be more pushback in Russia, you can't kill off 30% of the population to gain something you don't need, whereas you can defending your homes. Russia has a little more than 3x Ukraines population and they're losing troops at a rate of 3x more than Ukraine, let alone military equipment. That's not much land in this context, if that rate continued it would take about 50 more years to get to Kyiv, but Russia has been gaining less and less land each year. Right, but continued isolation combined with the human and monetary expense of the war is a dynamic where Russia cannot win with the west supporting Ukraine. This has a serious impact on Russia which makes it likely that Putin will be overthrown.

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-moscow-drone-attacks-airports/33196578.html Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty November 24' You can't send farmers with pitch forks against bradley fighting vehicles. The support provided to Ukraine gives Ukraine the military advantage over Russia, it is not the 19th century anymore where you just need laymen and muskets. Europe is actively training Ukrainian civilians on modern equipment. The Moscow Times https://www.themoscowtimes.com › russi… Russia’s Economy Is Spoiling as Putin Struggles to … Nov 21, 2024 · With inflation already out of control, Central Bank Governor Elvira Nabiullina has warned that “drastic” policy changes may be needed, raisin