Dodo

Thats some mental gymnastics I have to go through just to be able to call reality a dream. Duuuuh it is a dream, but im also dreaming inside the dream and the dream inside the dream does not follow the same logic as the dream outside of the dream... Wait , why am i calling it a dream then, maybe i should think of a different label if its different? If literally it is not like a dream at night, why am I calling it a dream FML. Wait, I have an idea, let's call it re-a-lity, if it is not like a dream at night! Qualified PS: I've literally never had a dream inside of a dream while im actually dreaming at night, how come? You would think if there is a chain, you would have infinite dream inside a dream, but I've literally only ever experienced "Real life dream" (allegedly) and "Dream at night", i've never experienced Dream inside dream at night (which would have even further changed laws within it), why is that?

Who am I parroting? I've literally never seen anyone here write the things I am? Notice you were challenged to debunk my facts about dreams and their inconsistency with this reality and now you're talking to me about awakening as if it is really hard. In dreams at night it is really not that hard to awaken and be lucid. Pick up a book on lucid dreaming if you want the techniques. Try to pick up a book in an actual dream tho, that will be hilarious if I could see you trying to read actual text inside of a dream. LMAO You are helping me with another fact here, lets say you ARE correct and that its really hard to awaken in reality. That is yet another point that differs from actual dreams, disproving yet again the notion that reality is a dream, on actual paper. What more do you need? I am saying reality is not a dream, I am not talking about awakenings per say. Perhaps you have reached some form of deep awakening, but now the ego is running away with ideas that they know it all and placing labels where it is wrong to do so. I do not doubt you have had some deep experiences bro, but reality is still not a dream based on the 8 differences between dreams and reality I have mentioned. Is that so hard to see? Its right in front of your face, on paper. You don't even need drugs to see it, just honesty, so lets not talk about honesty here.

I refer you to the point where fact is: in dreams you cannot read! If this was a dream all words would be jumbled up! They will dance around and move as im reading too! Ive had dreams like that, ive never had a dream where i can read text!

Reality is not a dream, its reality, there's a reason we have 2 different words, 2 different signposts. Saying reality is a dream is a sensationalist bs statement that is not based in reality, but in people's dreams.

Refer to my first post full with 8 facts about dreaming that are not seen in or consistent with real life. Debunking the myth that reality is a dream once and for all .

Well, i dont know! I didnt get the chance to see in that particular dream, because i stepped out of bounds and got kicked out or whatever. But yes why not, ive done many things in lucid dreams, but as I say the most common desire people go for when they lucid dream is to fly! You mightve done it as a kid and dont remember. I dont think you can make the bush disappear but yu can choose what to interact with and if you run to another location it will disappear that way, i wouldnt say you can make it disappear by wishing it, but perhaps its possible!

Snap out of it, you dont have loved ones in a dream. You are confused beynd belief. To have loved ones to bet tis needs to be real you get me? You are betting figments of your imagination, I would never bet the life of my loved ones because I know they are real. Also you have a lot to say in your other comments but al you do is tell me to take drugs and /or link me other peoples videos instead of you yourself debunking those "easly debunkable facts" ive said. I smoke weed my friend. I have experienced a lot of shit. Facts remain facts

Yes, ofcourse! You start choosing what to do rather than unconsciously going through the dream, and you are not limited anymore by the dream. One good example of this is one time i gained lucidity in a dream, i got naked in a public place and decided to see what will happen if i jump in the nearby bushes - spoiler when i did that, the dream broke because it couldn't continue generate the supposed reality because i did something unpredictable. If it was real life i wouldve been very hurt and bruised by the branches and weeds i jumped into, but what happened is, because it was a dream everything just turned black and i lost lucidity after that, i think the dream just ended

If i had a character in my actual dream say this exact same thing i would be able to agree, because i will remember Ah yes, im that guy sleeping and dreaming this, i remember now thanks *gains lucidity*. In this case you're telling me this i wont be able to imagine who is dreaming this (God supposedly) , i cant remember being God and having a life outside of this "dream" . So why is there a difference? Why can I easily recall my life outside a dream when i gain lucidity, but I cant do it here? Should I spell it out? Because its Not A Dream. For a moment you started speaking from direct experience and then reverted back to your nondual belief that you are God dreaming this, as if this makes any sense if you dont remember being God? Its just some belief u picked up that sounded true and you ran with it. I ask again where are my special abilities?

I actually cant, I dont usually choose what I dream and always if yu gain lucidity you can break the laws of physics that were in place before that. Show me someone claiming to be lucid fly without external help and i will be onboard! Waiting

Not at all, I welcome the conversation, I asked for it! I know where you're coming from and saying the things you're saying, im here to claim this is all because of a belief and not direct experience. You are saying I am awareness and not the bodymind organism! Ive been there. Ive witnessed and said things similar to you! Things are happening and there is no doer of them. But lets examine, if you forget about nonduality speech and what you've learnt from others, do you get thirsty now and then and drink water? Also, If you say you imagine drinking water, dont you need to have experienced something for real before you can imagine its taste and feeling? What im saying is , can you imagine (correctly) what it would taste like to eat something you've never actually eaten? Where is the basis of what youre imagining? How convenient is it that in my imagination im imagining a world that can completely be explained by laws of physics rather than being crazy impossible like people flying at will and transforming to whatever they like whenever they feel like it? How come not even a single hour of my life i havent imagined and gone through a wall? Please endulge me.

Do you drink water? Lets put the bs aside and go to the point please, do you drink water? Or do you imagine drinking water?

Can you do it at will, or it has happened a few times without your attempt? You revisited the same dream after you woke up from it - ok have you revisited this reality after you woke up from it? If I become lucid inside my dream I can think about my real self that is sleeping in bed, how come right now I cant even imagine the "sleeping in bed" character that is dreaming this dream? You sound very sensationalist, exactly the type of person my thread wants to target. How wise it sounds that reality is a dream, you must be a guru!

Im feelin sleepy right now i might go for a nap! 😲

If I speak with a dream character inside a dream and they tell me im dreaming I'd probably gain lucidity and be able to wake up from the dream easily. The opposite of stuck. Why is this a dream again? Same rules dont apply.

Well i didn't really research, I have always been fascinated by dreams and in fact the first spiritual book I read was Charlie Morlie's book "Dreams of awakening" which opened me up to lucid dreaming and he has written the book to be a mix between lucid dreaming and eastern spirituality. He talks a lot about befriending your fears and using lucid dreaming for conscious meditation inside the dream and supercharging your practice

Thanks, how do I dream the opposite? Instructions not clear

I give a damn about you. It's easier to see the faults in others than in yourself. Sometimes someone else has to step in and help you. You think you are helping me? What if I am helping you? Or are you beyond that. You believe you have figured it all out and now you are going to preach? Why, because you took a drug and had a strong experience? Now all of a sudden everyone who hasn't taken the drug is beneath you and you are their teacher? If they don't accept your teaching at face value they are ignorant? Please, you don't have to answer me, just be true to yourself when reading this.

Nope, you are assuming things about me which are not true. I do NOT believe consciousness is within my brain. You seem to be arguing with your idea of me and not me, wherever have I said consciousness is within my mind, jeez, you really put me as some absolute newbie here... And the way you say it like you know who I am and what I believe and practice? Where you get tripped up is that you equate consciousness with a bigger Mind. As mentioned in a previous comment, consciousness is Not mind, it is the empty canvas for all minds to be able to exist. It is not an object and not a self. It is not an "it". You cannot point to it, you cannot put it inside the small box and call it I. That's the mind. My mind is one of many, your mind is one of many, you have painted with a broad brush and placed your assumption that consciousness is mind and now present it as truth. I have been doing self inquiry for a long long looooong time, it is my one and only practice, if you can call it a practice, because it is a natural process. Am I really seeing this, am I seeing you recommending self inquiry to me? Well gee... You have to see that you're just giving me your belief, you're telling me things "how they are". Where have I seen that before? Only every single religion that exists. Very pretentious ending to your comment as well. You basically said "If you don't believe me, you're wrong, Im not gonna "beat you over the head with it" but you're wrong... End of story no backsies!" From Razzard I get only strong Spiritual ego vibes with even stronger cognitive dissonance, he's probably not even reading my replies to him, because he feels threatened, its not something new! His very identity feels threated by anyone who disagrees with him and that's not nice. All my points are valid and I am seeing no attempt by him to clarify his stance. As for your statement, that you need to be at higher level of consciousness to see it, I can come here and say "Everything is pink" "if you don't believe me, you're just not seeing it, you need higher level of consciousness" - mate you will never be able to see everything as pink, but you will never know it, because what if you're just not at high enough level of consciousness yet? In an infinite game there can always be higher. Think about that for a second when your sole argument against someone disagreeing with you is that they are low consciousness.

Not knowing is the ultimate enlightened state as far as I am concerned. Your friend is on the money. Doesn't sound great to the ego, the ego wants to figure it out - "this is the answer, i got it", "I have now completed the game, easy!" Becomes especially strong when it is a spiritual ego and they actually are fully certain they reached the endgame, by means of some crazy spiritual experience where they merge with the Absolute. It's not sexy to say, I dont know. It doesn't sell books! For financial enlightenment, you need to have something something for the buyer you get me

A guy arguing with circlejerking solipsist is God trying to share itself with others. You even use Circle jerk in your comment and you're not realising you're the main example. You respond to the guy who is on "your side" but not to the criticism and challenge from me. A true scientist wants people to challenge him, not to agree with him.

Look, I agree that consciousness is nondivisible, but I don't agree it is one. In my personal exploration, consciousness is 0 itself. There's definitely Not 2 consciousnesses! Sounds familiar dunnit? People immediately assume One... Consciousness is the canvas, the canvas exists prior to any painting and it is completely empty, allowing space for that painting. Without the painting, the canvas is useless and uninteresting, without the canvas, the painting can't be. (Sorry this second part is just a good explanation of the way I see it, I dont want to give you any lectures) I guess what Im trying to say is, once you get to the consciousness realisation, you don't now treat that consciousness as the Ultimate Mind, but as something completely outside the realm of mind. All minds are paintings on the canvas, To say there is 1 consciousness and therefore reality is solipsistic is to say that consciousness is mind. Basically, treating consciousness as an object, when it is the eternal subject. You don't have to paint the canvas

I perceive solipsism as strong "bullshit" trap. I don't see solipsism as mystical or part of mysticism. I perceive it as one of the bigger traps for spiritual egos. Nonduality - yes, that's mysticism. I'll bring in a copy of my own circlejerkers here to help me out. Post by Dontaskme » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:06 am Another guy responds with: Answer:

Now thats what I call top class circlejerking! "It's them! They don't have a clue, but WEE, we knooow!" Give me a break. I have attacked no labels. I am evolved enough to discuss what the labels are pointing to. I don't agree bro, and in your worldview you're supposed to be viewing me as yourself, yet you act like I am someone different! By your own worldview, you shouldn't even be here arguing. By my worldview, go ahead, we are two separate entities discussing their belief systems, experiences and notions of reality. By your worldview, its just you, so why are you arguing with your damn self, you crazy or what? Why am I not seeing it? No, in your world view, its not me who is not seeing, but your own self is not seeing, because thats what you believe. RIGHT? You can't escape this point when you are a solipsist and defend solipsism. It might sound basic and crude, but it is so obvious, you disregard it as me talking bs. Its YOU talking bs in a solipsistic world, not me. I dont exist, remember, it's just you?

its the opposite of circlejerk here... There is no such bias, it's just that I am perhaps always challenging what you're saying and you take that as if I have a bias. I'm the kind of guy who will challenge what I perceive as bullsh1t, no matter who wrote it. Leo has some great content, when I see something I consider bs, I call it and don't care. If you're a mod as well, I don't care, I take what you write based on what you write. If I see Jesus saying something BS I will call it, Hitler as well. If Hitler and Jesus say the same sentence, there are people who will challenge only Hitler, but I am the guy who would challenge both, because its not about who says it, but what they say.