Dodo

But you talk with certainty as if we know what God does or is. It might be an assumption if we are radically honest with our self? As I said, what if what you tapped into is your own self infinity, which is still not the Absolute? This is an extremely radical claim, to know how God works. Even I have done in the past this mistake. I do not look at past though, that's one truth that is helping me in this investigation.

Invisible wars, I can confirm from own experience and intuition this is happening. I've played in some "5d game" like that 6 months ago and it was pretty confusing to my mind, as I didnt know what is happening, but listening to this video, she is speaking about the same sort of thing, from a different perspective. I hope this is helpful to someone out there as it is for me! I believe those who are meant to see this will do

Kalo, I like some of your insights and point of view. Check out the thread I just started about this exact thing. I believe it is a trap, a very convincing trap - traps wouldn't work if there wasn't cheese to make you interested... I do not agree, the user is voicing very sounds stuff (not everything I agree with, but some of the things are legitimate imo), the problem is we immediately judge others as wrong because they have a different point of view and different insights. Even not judging consciously, everyone believes they have the truth and it is very uncomfortable to assume we might not have it.

Here is a little quick representation of my understanding. in short, I believe the atman is something that both exists and doesn't exist ( a point) and can be viewed both as nothingness and as somethingness. Check out the pic. To me it is not about all those who discuss about it etc. I will never be able to trust with my eternal soul to someone else. What if they have bad intentions? For me to really know I have to find out myself. Especially if the subject is me!

I said one time to a girl i had just met in the park (we liked each other) that this is my fav song. She now thinks im a stalker ??

First off, i am saying my understanding, Leo would probably say something else. That's how I understand him. Saying this because i don't want to put my meanings as what he meant, it might be different. Now Atman now is Experienced as the subject of your experience now. When the body dissolves, that doesnt mean your subject of experience will dissolve. As you mention, many appear to have the experience of continuing on out of body. That does not mean this atman subjective experience is real, it can still be imaginary pov in God's mind. With or without body below it. Might be more you, but still not it. Who sees/knows the Atman?

I believe that what Leo is saying is that atman is imaginary and therefore not real (therefore no atman). That only Brahman/nothingness/Everythingness is real because it cannot be imagined. While the atman POV can be imagined. I guess! (we are imagining it right now )

everything is easier inside a lucid dream, because you are the only one there! in the waking dream there are all these buggers saying they are you and other buggers saying they are not you. In lucid dream you can snap your fingers and remove anything you dont like and add anything you like. I guess awareness is so boundless, it is not bounded to being only boundless. Hence, experience of bondage.

Cant help the unconscious by moving away from them, right? Is a kind of selfish deal? I can be perfectly blissful and am, every night in bed. But how to be blissful during dumb situations like that. Jesus had a choice and chose to try to help the egoic dumbfucks. That was very non-egoic of him and got punished for it. He was always around the lowlifes / criminals, not just around good people. That's like running away from the problem and leaving it there, just because its out of your direct experience now its ok. If you stab someone, you're not going to feel the physical pain. They are. The same way if they stab you, you will feel pain, not the other. This makes it incredibly important that people do not do to others what they wouldn't like to happen to themself. If I am stuck in Ego I want some brave soul to come and try to guide me out of it even if I bark at them in my ignorance. That's being ego-less, not moving away so we can feel blissful. I am divided between my hedonistic nature and my altruistic one.

I watched these yesterday, wanted to say thanks for posting.

i like it ;D or evil must be destroyed with the machine gun of love <3

But then, a refutation comes from my stage red friend, as you say this to him, he starts to kick you in the nuts. What do you say to justify you're protecting your nuts!

Im not even saying he wasn't perfect, it is perfectly normal in my opinion, to feel forsaken if this happens to you. The thing is most of us are doing armchair philosophy which is easy. Oh yeah I am not the body etc etc., but if reality conspires to check that for real, you might be put in situation where you, from your direct experience as a human can be tortured... It wouldn't feel like all is good at that point, it would feel like there is some force there which is guided by dark/evil spirits. There are many different spirits that exist and we need to be conscious of which one we let work through us. We are all innocent, it is the spirits we let in that can mud things up... Here comes the importance of that mind dressage (ox herding) I guess. The oxes are going to be beast natured and wild, unless we apply spiritual wisdom on our ox but also on other oxes around us! If you make your ox "enlightened" or domesticated, and it is surrounded by wild oxes, the wild ones are likely to destroy the "domesticated" one... Unless most are domesticated and only few are wild, then we have a problem! That's why I think religion is a positive, as it usually anchors the spirit of Love in the reader/user and not evil-doing. But now if we dont even acknowledge there is Spirit of evil going around the world, how are we going to tackle it? There is so much qualitative difference between spirit of evil and spirit of Love. I believe its good to be mindful of that, and not just close our eyes for the injustices of the world and the preventable evil. Here is a poker analogy to support my post (even though I dont like playing it): In poker you can win or you can lose. Both whether you win or you lose, you are playing poker (nonduality) but there is a qualitative difference- a REAL difference between whether you are winning or you are losing. But either way, you're playing, right? That doesn't mean its all the same. The result , the fruit, is important. Not all trees bear good fruit. Some trees require help to produce better fruits. We cant do that if we say the rotten fruit is Good.

But i wouldn't be sure about that last statement. Im pretty sure enlightened can view some as fools, even if knowing something deeper. Might even see his own "guy self" like fool too ? But you say you're not enlightened so maybe there are different ways those foolish bodymindspirit complexes can be pushed on the right path rather than just spiral into their delusions further. I don't subscribe to "all is well". If someone starts torturing your bodymindspirit even the most enlightened will start to question the sanity of some aspects of the absolute. It's not all well at all! When Jesus was on the cross, he questioned for a moment, why has God forsaken him... And I do have a direct experience and know the difference between someone being intentionally mean in order to hurt (satan) and those who are true to the spirit of Peace and Love (God) . I do not believe in nonduality. I actually intuited my friend had a connection with this evil spirit before he exploded. It was like a presence.. Knowing its presence could have been what triggered it. It likes to be hidden. Eckhart is on point with the pain body thing, he is exposing satan to the Light of consciousness and Love.

How would Eckhart for example react if there was some fool next to him constantly making sudden movements as if about to hit him. I get that we are not the body, but would still make you respond, right? The enlightened way would be which one: a)ignore the annoying fool and accept the situation (but you cant really cause he will just keep doing it and you dont know if next time he will actually hit or trip you.) - but the fool will keep you in fight or flight which is undesirable state. b) remove yourself from the situation, proving that you were affected by the behaviour C) slap him/ fight him/ become as unconscious as him. Seriously that guy used me like a damn doormat last night. And I allowed it because I anchor space. Absolutely incredible. I think the full moon energy might be affecting his psyche.. Full moon? More like Fool moon!

Thanks for the response. I appreciate your clarity and wisdom. I have a further question - If one transcends / goes meta/ has eternity by its side and then the bodymind starts trying to get "other minds" to see it / go meta, it can trigger a negative egoic response in less conscious individuals who assume separation for example and misunderstand this as an attack on their belief systems. Then those "other" minds appear to try to make your existence worse in order to prove to you that they are not you. I am saying this because I had an encounter with one "friend" yesterday and I was contemplating reality, which triggered a really egoic reaction in him as he started shouting insults at me and looking all serious. I was amazed, it was so out of the blue, I had no idea why what I said triggered him so much. It was like what Eckhart Tolle talks about that "pain body" entity had arisen... He wanted to change reality and was doing it through insults and trying to make me self-conscious. Literally he called me an idiot and tried to attack my human self. So if you walk with eternity by your side, you would still get those people trying to trip you up? But assuming others are me and through this realisation we see more and more the truth of this, I am going to be more trusting of people, as I would think it is me trying to give myself a message of some sort through the other bodymind... But then they will abuse me for it and mistake my non-egoic behaviour as a justification to act egoic without consequences... I don't know if I confused you by all this, but maybe you get what Im saying. How to deal with egoic behaviour basically... I mean when someone is egoic, I tend to respond with the same level of consciousness, like a mirror... But that is like dragging me down to their level... Maybe I need to cut ties?

See this is all great stuff. But imagine you are next to a stage red talking these things. Or basically anyone with egoic identity and toxic attitude. They would want to make your life as shit as possible to show you that you're not saved, because they don't want you to be free. They see other's success as their failure. Humanity is poisoned. The devil is very much among us. Jesus was a lucid dreamer... And what happened - the egoic dumbfucks got him.

Thats it, thats what i was trying to communicate myself earlier. You have much clear message, appreciated. When we create reality we arent this bodymind creating other bodyminds, this bodymind and other bodyminds are all equally created.. At least I assume that. I got an extreme egoic reaction from my friend last night as I was talking about these things. He started calling me an idiot and really being harsh, trying to activate my ego identity I guess. He is stage red and its really messy... I couldn't believe what im seeing, but definitely was pain body stuff.. Thats how I knew this stuff is most likely Truth ? He was so triggered by just me investigating this that he was even trying to make me in fight or flight situations by constantly trying to trip me and by playing a very alpha male behaviour (which is silly for me. Being alpha is the absolute beta - taking himself so seriously, what an ass?). Unfortunately he is so low consciousness and I see all the little egoic tricks he likes to play and its just sad. I think I have sawn enough seeds in his mind and can let go of this fake friendship. It is all so obvious when we cultivate a little more awareness.. The problem with my "friend" is that when he doesn't understand he gets offended and these stuff are some deep shit and he's not interested and constantly telling me im wasting my time. He likes to judge others and has little interest in introspection. I wish I do a better job over there and awaken the stage reds... Do we need asholes around? I guess there is a problem with discussing the nature of reality with egoic nonspiritual instances of ourself is we are going to see all the dirty laundry of the unconscious mind and the madness of the ego.

but love is more gentle than that... be careful what spirits you trust lol!

So you're saying that i am you! I can assume that. Stay safe my Self from another dimension !!!!

I don't subscribe! See me as a form might be a construct of you, but not your mind, rather your empty consciousness would be a better pointer. But me as this bodymind am not this empty consciousness. Only the "atman" or Self is. So i am not a construct of your mind, but of our collective consciousness... No? So we cant say I imagined you. If we have to say anything we would have to say I, consciousness, create both this Ego-Self and other Ego-Selves. This Ego-self point of view is as imaginary and non existent as the others and vice versa!

Bro! I just told u, I have no direct experience its just you bro ? Joking aside, if we are both honest we would claim to have direct experience. If you didn't have direct experience right now, why are you so passionate about telling me im denying direct experience! You have no clue what it is right? ?

Something cool to contemplate actually. But the last bit there is a refutation, because you have an experience right now (direct) and I also do (direct) and we are 2 humans. From your pov and following this reasoning, looks like you are the only human to exist, from mine it is me. So there are more than 1. I like the idea that God is experiencing every point of view, but that would make no sense, because when you are me, who is experiencing you? And the choices I make create changes for the other humans, so how can God experience one of us first and then the other, when we constantly change based on small everyday decisions.. I would say it is more likely that there are no points of view,. The anti-solipsist movement that I will be starting. Instead of assuming others have an experience like yourself (normal view) or that they don't have experience and just you, why don't we assume that actually we do not have direct experience, since thats what we see of other humans.. We see no direct experience there, so its safe to assume there is no direct experience here too lol. We might be imagining our own point of view entirely, like a mirage.

That was the theme of my experience there. I was on the side you talk about - the heart ♥ centered consciousness. But I met there a scholar character who knew what was going on with me, at least a bit, and I had to submit to the value of rules and all those mind stuff. And he had to agree that there is a truth beyond any words, as I was speaking from my heart and that was how I got there in the first place. He was like a muslim father figure and told me of the importance of structured religion/scripture.. He did seem to try to understand what I am talking about, he was very interested, as he knew that Truth is beyond the words. But really it must be a mixture of both for true embodiment imo. I was so lost there I did not know what was happening. Later on another character told me "Follow your heart, but take your brain with you" kind of striking on the same point. @billiesimon there is a very wise statement "don't throw the baby with the bathwater". That's definitely true about religions - most people throw out the baby as well, just because they see all the dirty water around it. That doesnt mean the bath is bad, just because the water is dirty too!

@billiesimon seeing how the religions that are doing these fasting periods are meant to be doing this, to tune the souls to their higher nature, but still not fasting permanently i guess. During my experience one muslim woman who helped me with spiritual connection told me very silently how I should check if the Quran is the truth. But I got there by following bible related things.. So basically maybe they have the truth and are applying it on a large scale.