ICURBlessings

@Keryo Koffa I said "It is interesting, that is the point you are making. You are presenting a facet, that in most cases, can only be handled indirectly. You are correct since each one of us is the Master of our Mind - and ultimately we are the Mind behind every belief, opinion, argument, that we chose to uphold ... However carelessly attacking someone because of their position in an argument is a "faux pas" that collapses the delivery of the true message that we have to offer - WHILE on the other hand if we actually demonstrate that it is the position they have freely chosen to take, that produces a problem - then they are shown that their Light can be attained via their freedom to change." I just wanted to add that I see in your humoristic responses that you are NOT attacking Saranagata personally and carelessly - you are specifically pointing to some of the absurdities of the position he has chosen to stand on. Even your comedic statement "Want to sign my petition to "Reconsider @Saranagata as a Non-Living Entity"?" which may appear as a personnel attack, since if you were saying this seriously it would be a personal attack - but you are not serious in the literal sense of your statement. It is NOT a true personnal attack since it is ONLY pointing to the absurdity of his petition.

It is interesting, that is the point you are making. You are presenting a facet, that in most cases, can only be handled indirectly. You are correct since each one of us is the Master of our Mind - and ultimately we are the Mind behind every belief, opinion, argument, that we chose to uphold ... However carelessly attacking someone because of their position in an argument is a "faux pas" that collapses the delivery of the true message that we have to offer - WHILE on the other hand if we actually demonstrate that it is the position they have freely chosen to take, that produces a problem - then they are shown that their Light can be attained via their freedom to change. You say "Someone who promotes war should be willing to stand on the front lines.", although very JUST - it is a statement within the sphere of reason that Saranagata seem to have completely removed himself from.

...YES very good point!

Thanks Keryo Koffa for highlighting some of the absurdities of Saranagata argument. I enjoyed your wits!

Saranagata, you have managed to bend your logic into a pretzel, for which you obviously experience great adoration for. But maybe one day you will see that you have reduced your consciousness to such a large pseudo-denominator that it has been divided and fragmented into thousands of tiny little pieces of broken concepts ... with respect I must say I think you have no idea how far down a convoluted process of logic you have taken yourself. It is so far removed from any semblance to reason, let alone a sharable understanding - I pray that some angel find his way to you, as you certainly should stop being your own guide.

I graciously Thank you as well

Looking at the thinking behind your reply it is obvious that your view of the metabolic state of Ketosis (Ketogenic state) is curtailed in someway. But, I think you might have a certain curiosity that may lead you - at one point - beyond the limited understanding that you are raising up against what I am attempting to communicate. You said "Words like "miraculous", "reversal" "optimal for general performance" are tricky to defend." - These words were not chosen as tools for defense or attack - they are the opposites - they lack details because of the role and function they serve- and not because of a role or a function they lack. Basically when I make a statement here in a post in such a forum - I am attempting to communicate "a lot" with as few words as possible. I expect the readers to read in between the lines, and if interested to explore on his own. I am fully aware of the shortcomings, imperfections, and propensity to failure of communication that is thereby established. But for me to provide all the details, data, and sources to backup every little piece of my statements is unrealistic - and may belong in a book, or a course, or a video series - but not here. What I state is usually a type of culmination with a lot of research behind, and usually with a substantial degree of experience as well. It is given here in the form of a 'conclusion'. To help understand my background, you should know that I have spent 21 years of my life as an lacto-ovo vegetarian, a period were most of my friends and acquaintances were either vegans or vegetarians - and what we call today "plant-base" proponents. That was before the internet, and I read the books, articles, magazines, and whatever I could get my hands on. It has been about 25 years now that I have shifted away from that diet. I am sharing this here to communicate to you that I am well verse in the thinking, understandings and beliefs that are upheld by the Plant-base ideology. As it use to be an ideology that I had invested myself into. One may wonder why did I shift away from this ideology - and I don't have a short answer other than saying, that it is through a diversity of scientific interests, more specifically, genetics, biology, nutrition, anthropology/paleontology, among a few others that are less directly related to our subject here. The world of nutrition/medicine - within the sphere of science - is extremely difficult to distill facts from. This is counter-intuitive, as we usually assume that ‘science’ is a clear-cut body of knowledge. When looking at a very large body of articles representing scientific studies and research – there is a continuous flow of inconsistencies and a continuous lack of perfect-congruity. This is a known fact among professional scientists, but not among the general scientific public. The art of reading and analyzing scientific articles to extract the true significance of the results - is time consuming, even for the professional - as every detail must be considered. The reason I can claim that in over 99% of studies pertaining to the field of nutrition – the participants are not in Ketosis is obvious to someone who is familiar to a certain degree – including its history - with this field of research. First of all the great, great majority of research on nutrition do not aim to evaluate the metabolic factor which ketosis would represent – as in almost all practical application of nutrition - those that eventually benefit from the research - are NOT normally in a state of ketosis. When looking at the relatively tiny body of research that may pertain to ketosis – we find mostly animal research – and in the case of studies applied to human that are actually in ketosis (where ketones are effectively measured – this mean not via the breath or urine, but via blood-ketones) to be so scarce that I am pretty confident it will amount to much LESS than 1%. I must add that even many nutritionists – including scientist have an incomplete understanding of ketosis. A common blunder is to throw the Keto-diet into the same bowl as the Low-Carb diet. In some scientific papers you will see words such as “keto like diet” instead of “low-carb diet”. But when you read into the parameters defining what the authors call “keto like diet” it clearly is NOT a “Keto diet”. From the top of my head, I remember a case where it was something like around 250gr/day of carbs being considered “keto-like” – which shows a clear misapprehension of the Keto diet. Of course this “under 1%” number will not last long – as proper research genuinely related to the Keto diet has been drastically increasing, and is a phenomenon that is bound to continue to grow exponentially. The biggest problem with distilling data from research and studies in the field of medicine and nutrition – results from the impact of the ‘special interest’ involved via the financial side of research. And a single nutrition study can demand multiple millions of dollars. In medicine we have the pharmaceutical industry controlling a vast body of research. And in nutrition we have a diversity of ‘special interest bodies’ including massive organization in the food industry, among others. If you look at the case of the famous Ancel Keys – author of the ‘Seven Countries Study’ among others – you see not only HOW the entire mainstream field of Nutrition, extending globally - can be fundamentally influenced by a very small number of people using completely corrupted data - BUT also HOW a perfectly good scientist can slowly become ‘unscientific’ in the application of his work. Scientists are human, and some will do what they have to do to maintain their financial income, their reputation, and other valued benefits from their career. There are many sources that brings forth different evidences of the effect of Ketosis/Ketone on patient suffering from Alzheimer. Without spending more time than I want to on this reply – I have on the forefront of my mind the extensive research of Stephen Cunnane. I invite you to look into it through your own research if you are interested. You asked “What is "optimal for general performance" exactly? ” Although this concept covers a very wide range of performance – we can focus on the biology level – since much of human behaviors (physical and mental) are fundamentally dependent, and are affected by the biology of the body. This comes down to the effect of the Ketogenic state and to the effects of the state where ketones are so low that it is considered NON-Ketogenic. Insulin is directly involved as a key hormone in the mechanism shifting the metabolic state out-of ketosis. As a note we are born in a state of ketosis. The reason I consider this ‘Ketosis versus not-Ketosis paradigm’ important is because it is an extension of one of the most fundamental principal governing all life on Earth. Physical-Life to exist there must be Physical-Energy. Energy represented by the necessary resources required for a species to survive. And that it be for a micro-organism, a plant, or a mammal - FUNDAMENTALLY these resources fluctuates from lack to abundance. Humans stands on the shoulders of the evolution of life on this planet, that begin as a mechanism that was designed to answer/adapt to this very fundamental condition of living/thriving in the midst of fluctuating resources. If such resources - since the beginning of life on Earth - were instead continuous, the metabolic processes would exclude the function of the state that we can define today as Not-Ketogenic. Because the fundamental function of the Non-ketogenic state is to store energy – so to survive a period of lack of resources. If resources were continuous, there would no need to biologically store energy. When studying the evidences unearthed in archaeology, and as part of paleontology, we can see the negative changes to human health that agriculture has brought on. And also we have historical data on the health of aborigines from around the world before their diet was changed due to colonization - that shows a radical shift in long term health. This includes the Inuit who use to be in Ketosis pretty much year around. If this interest you, I invite you to listen to the lectures of Dr Michael Eades. There is so much more to say and explain about all of this. If you are truly interested you can learn new information by doing your own research. I will mention that there are studies that are controverting the old concept that the brain and nerves cells (neurons) do not naturally regenerate themselves. You also said “...it would probably not make sense to consider fruits unhealthy, even in high amounts.” I think fruits in high amount can be unhealthy over time. How bears stores very quickly a large amount of fat is by eating fruits. I was told that bears even develop insulin resistance every year during that period of time when they need to store energy. It is interesting how insulin resistance is part of their survival mechanism. There so many aspects interrelated to metabolism when comparing the Ketogenic state to the Non-Ketogenic state. The fact that the basic function of the Non-Ketogenic state is to store energy, does affect many biological parameters, such as appetite, satiety, and compulsive eating – all biologically implemented to drive energy storage. These mechanism are directly involved in how human can eat to manage their emotions. Looking into "food addiction" will bring up countless proponents that claim that food can not be considered addictive - because food is not only not toxic but necessary for life itself. However the practitioners that are involved in helping those that have issue with compulsive eating, clearly points to a pattern that is exactly like any other type of addiction, such as to alcohol. What help me cut through the controversy on food addiction was that I had previously studied alcohol addiction - and I could recognize the biological and psychological parallels. There is a field of research that is exploring the correlation between dysfunctional behaviors and diet. The tapestry that is evolving is very coherent. Because eating is tightly bound to humans emotional life, the hope of solving global health problems via nutrition is limited.

Upon further reflection after rereading my posts in this thread - I see that in a few places I used the word 'carb' and 'carb diet' INFERING to a nutritional regime that makes the metabolic state of the body Not-in-KETOSIS. I should of been more specific as it was interpreted by you and maybe others that all carbs are equal. HOWEVER in the sense of Ketosis vs Not-Ketosis metabolic state - generally all carbs are usually considered TOGETHER - as in complex and simple carbs. Although, as I previously stated - if one is in a metabolic state of Ketosis - one can afford to eat a little more complex carbs relative to simple carbs. That being said - all carbs are not equal when going into a more detailed understanding of metabolism. As Fructose has a much more radical impact than sucrose on metabolism. The many culprits of carbs in general are linked more to fructose than sucrose. If someone aims to reap the benefits of Ketosis - one has to not eat complex carbs under a certain amount - which is rather low when considering how much one is naturally inclined to eat in today's world. Much of FASTING benefits can be attributed to Ketosis - although not entirely. The problem with Fasting is that it is not sustainable - long term. However Intermittent-Fasting is. But to achieve Ketosis with intermittent-fasting it will be much more difficult if one does not go low on his carb-intake. The health benefits of being in Ketosis over long periods is near miraculous. Radical reversal of diabetes is one, for many it is the complete remission of epilepsy and other seizure disorders. Not to mention loosing weight without starvation. The list is actually very long. I can imagine you might want to believe that one can do the same without going into ketosis but with a healthy carb diet - HOWEVER the differences are just incomparable. It is not about the carbs being 'BAD' - it is about the state of Ketosis being biologically speaking 'optimal for general performance'. The NON-Ketosis state has a biological purpose - which is to prepare the body for a period of "lack of resources (food wise)". If you look at bears, without a super-high carb intake they could never survive hibernation. But humanity is in a upward spiral of chronic health disease directly related to the absence of ketosis in our biological life. Here is a story I heard yesterday from a doctor: Patient comes to him for joints replacement surgery. Patient is overweight and has been for a long time. Doctor suggest to him to go through a trial period were he would change his diet and maintain a state of ketosis - and that at the very least, it will help his operation recovery. The patient decide to go with the diet change. Within 10 days the patients becomes free of arthritic-symptoms. Symptoms that he has been suffering from for many, many years. He says to the doctor, if this freedom from these symptoms persists - I will not need the surgery. I know this is not a proof - but it is a story among hundreds, and hundreds.

I found your response as a reaction to a miss-interpretation of what I posted. You read-in what I posted what you wanted to see - and certainly not how I think and what I intended to communicate. If you reread my posts and find a way to put aside the bias filter that you use to raise a personal defense - you will see that I am talking about the state of KETOSIS benefits versus NOT-Ketosis. I never claimed the Keto diet is for everyone. I would even say in that sense - and only in that sense that 'health' is not for everyone - but you are likely to miss-interpret this as well. If you see an offense, than know that you are miss-interpreting. I am familiar with glucose response relation to the glycemic index of carbohydrates. I would never say that I am a student of Ayurveda - Reread my post, as stated that was 40 years ago! Ketosis is being used and studied with radically positive results to treat a wide range of mental health issues. The body can thrive with health, including mental-health with a very low carb intake. Stating this fact is in no way claiming that you MUST do a Keto diet. You said "The later is also beneficial for your energy and your heart and your mind and reduces risk of Alzheimer's" - I do not agree Ketosis has been used successfully to REVERSE Alzheimer. I know how difficult it is to maintain a state of Ketosis - although thousands do it - and that difficulty is not for everyone - especially when one is towards the end of his life. But that is a completely different topic. I am not writing a book here. I agree that there are differences between types of carbs - that one can achieve a higher state of health or increase his metabolic dysfunction according to the type of carb intake. However I must add that the quantity of carb intake (as on a regular basis-over many years), has an important effect, even if they are the complex type. Ketosis can not be achieved unless the carb intake is relatively low. If measured by weight, one can take more complex carbs than simple one - while not interfering with the state of Ketosis. As far as specific research is concerned - in my opinion this platform is not appropriate for debating. I will only point to the fact that the great majority of nutrition research (probably well over 99%) - was NOT performed with participants in a state of KETOSIS. The latest studies are showing that when the same conditions are applied to participants in a state of Ketosis - the results differ. Finally, about the following comment: "... comparing carbohydrates to heroin or alcohol like that....... You dismissed the poster's comment in a patronising way in a sort of "hold my beer" type of response. It is unempathetic and it is incredibly inconsiderate to even say something like that, especially from someone who seems to be attempting to take a high ground in this thread" I did use a radical parallel when stating 'heroin' - and I can see now how it could be taken as an offense - but it was not an offense - no matter how you look at it. You say it was "incredibly inconsiderate" - I disagree with the chosen adverb 'incredibly'. If you are that sensitive I would ask myself 'what' is it that is causing such sensitivity. If I did offend Fountainbleu - I apologize for my inconsideration.

Where in the world did you get such ideas?!? You must be completely out of touch with the natural world... There are probably a hundred studies that proves that plants perceive. Here is a few of them - linked: https://humansinnature.org/2021/11/03/plant-behavior-do-plants-have-perceptions-of-their-environment/ https://academic.oup.com/jxb/article/66/2/425/2893254 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1360138523000833 Here is a link to an article titled: Beyond the View of Plants as Mere Machines: on Plant Sensation, Perception, and Awareness It clearly explains how plants not only perceive but have a type of memory, and that they communicate (network with each others. http://www.esalq.usp.br/lepse/imgs/conteudo_thumb/Beyond-the-View-of-Plants-as-Mere-Machines.pdf

Many could say the same thing when drinking alcohol, even shooting heroin! Carbs act on the nervous system in many ways like addictive drugs. The part of the brain that get activated with some addictive substances - like alcohol - is also activated by carbs consumption. The "calm" achieved via Ketosis (metabolic state activated when diet is low in carbs) is much more stable and holds much better. The sense of satisfaction that carbs produces is short lived - almost never over an hour - and usually under 45 min.. Carbs produces more "roller-coaster" effects. Especially when they are eaten in large quantity. Carb diet can interfere with sleep-quality as well. A person is more "moody", and more prone to emotional instability, as well.

Interesting synchronicity - as about 40 years ago I studied Ayurveda - and faithfully applied its principles to my life for about 20 years. It still has a slight influence on how I see interactions between the different body/temperament-doshas and the seasons, climates, time of the day, and life-styles. For me, Ayurveda was not effective in dealing with health issues, and it certainly did not serve me to reach the optimal health state that I now maintain. Ayurveda due to its many incompatibilities with science, it can only run parallel to it. What was 100X more useful to me - health wise - was a deep study of our biological evolution over millions of years - and understanding thereby the optimal conditions for maximizing metabolic health. Long life is about metabolic health; quality of life is about metabolic health; and the slow process of dying that most human are submitting themselves to - is the effect of metabolic dysfunction. The processes that leads to metabolic dysfunction unfolds over long period of time. Traditionally, it took several decades, but this situation has now accelerated at the global scale. India, the Nation that gave birth to Ayurveda is in serious trouble when it comes to metabolic health. In the Scientific paper "Socioeconomic inequality in awareness, treatment and control of diabetes among adults in India: Evidence from National Family Health Survey of India (NFHS), 2019–2021" report that "India is home to the world's second highest number of diabetic patients. Within the age group of 20–79 years, India has 74.9 million diabetics in 2021 projected to increase to 124.9 million by 2045" Diabetes (type 2) is a very serious disease that usually takes decades to reach. But those decades are not a period of health, they are a period of health decline. You certainly don't have to be diabetic to be metabolically in trouble. When a doctor tells his patient "you are pre-diabetic" that person's health is in serious trouble. And diabetes is a terrible and morbid disease. Metabolic dysfunction is not typically an issue that you become aware before mid-life - but it is the behavior that are applied before mid-life that leads to it. Article mentioned: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-29978-y#:~:text=India is home to the,124.9 million by 20454.

why 6 pm specifically? It was just an example of a "possibility" among others... ...carbs are good for a healthy nervous system. I see a lot of talk about fasting and low or no carbs, but I find a lot of people don't know the nuances of it. Speaking from experience. The fact is there is no real need for carbs in the human diet, as the human body can produce all the carbs needed for maintaining a healthy metabolism and for its overall health. The fact is that health problems caused by lack of carbs do not exist. Where as the list of health-problems from eating to many carbs (a behavior of the great majority of humans world-wide) is long and includes heart-disease; diabetic, and Alzheimer - among many, many other chronic health issues. The fact is that 'Ketosis' - which is a metabolic state which can ONLY occur with a relatively low carb-intake - does 'miracles' when it comes to the nervous-system - including healing-effects. So much so that it is now being research for its potential in mediating extreme-stress on the nervous-system that jet-pilots (Air-Force) are subjected to - and for super-deep sea divers. Not to mention how it radically end a great percentage of brain-seizures (search: Ketosis effects on Epileptic seizures)

Thanks for the good "vibe" man!

Interesting video on the efforts made to create a true democratic voting system. It shows many possible voting systems and their weaknesses.