Key Elements

Ok. I get what you're saying here. But, we got to let out the practical truths first, like these: "If you do what the other 'group' does, what's the difference between you and them? Nothing." The problem is, ppl are too sluggish to even bother to look within and think deeply of what these mean. They just go for the quick fix thinking. You see? Even practical truths are profound, and the mind can't be sluggish to understand them. You can't progress without passing practical truths.

Emerald, I agree more or less with everything you said here. I get it. Let me add, be careful with how you point out the truth because ppl usually look at the finger. Yes, they misinterpret it in their own ways and it sends them off on a tangent. Presentation of the pointer must be excellent. You can't just let it out.

@Emerald Also, I think when doing the life purpose, it's best to tell the ultimate truth as indirectly as possible. It's unhealthy for the seeking to have so much attachments to it. "The truth isn't told; it's recognized." -a spiritual teacher If you incorporate the ultimate truth into real life, it will look like this:

I agree. It's better for most ppl to go for the practical truth. I said this in different ways, including using this metaphoric story: The Stone Cutter There was once a stone cutter who cuts stones for a living but wasn't happy with his occupation. He worked in the hot baking sun. He looked up at the sun one day and said, "Look how magnificent and powerful the sun is! It can just sit there burning anything." On his next life he became the proud sun and just freely extended his rays everywhere. Then he saw something quickly approach him, and that was a large cloud that just covered him up. "Ah man!" he cried, "now I can't extend my sun rays anywhere. I wish I'm as powerful as a cloud." On his next life he became a quick moving cloud that covered the sun and poured rain everywhere. He was freely going anywhere he wished until he bumped into a tall mountain. "Now I understand that mountains are the most powerful! They can block anything! Nothing gets in their way! I wish that I'm a powerful tall mountain!" His wish was granted on his next life. He became a powerful tall mountain and just stood there proudly. "What can be more satisfying than to live long and strong as a mountain! Even the people paint pictures of me and think I'm beautiful and majestic." He stood there for years smiling. Until one day, he overheard that the people were trying to build train tracks and he was blocking the path. The mountain thought proudly that nothing can happen to him until a stone cutter came along and started drilling him I heard that if you actually experience the ultimate truth, there will be also literal changes to your external environment for indications. Otherwise, how else will you be convinced that you've experienced the ultimate truth? No one can tell you about it. It's recognized. Also, other factors count such as your contributions. There is such thing as karma. Non-duality isn't the only factor. Otherwise, this earth realm wouldn't exist as a "realm."

"For anything in life, create something which will teach the profound and not bring attachments. This is one of the most challenging things to do. Say to yourself, 'it is time for me to do just this.' There are other people to be picked in the place of where you're at--to learn, to move on, to contribute, to love." - unknown

Wait a minute...what you said here is very crucial. How is it possible that you're going to help them? In what ways? Tell me. Most likely ppl are just going to help themselves. The reason why is because you don't understand their suffering. Unless you fully understand who they are, and you're willing go through the hell/suffering with them, then you could help them properly. Here's a simple example. You know two friends who you like hanging out with. They are awesome well settled ppl with great personalities. You think they would make the perfect couple so you tell them about this and introduce them. They start dating. They're happy in the beginning and become bf/gf. Later on, they fight like cats and dogs everyday and break up. Then, they never talk to each other again or you. The point is, if you try to help someone, it could end up hurting them a lot more.

Oh, I already said it. That was the most profound discovery. Thanks Leo. It's like showing me the final pavement to my calling. Three ppl pointed it out for me that we are all one--you Leo, Shinzen Young, and my brother. At that moment all three of you were one dropping hints as a team; it's very hard to understand in just a post. It was just unbelievable and amazing. Time to share it with the world through the life purpose that I fell back into my ego with love, becoming awake but never realizing it. This will take time to explain. That's why I revise it in my journal. Oh, if only you knew, Leo, that there may be other factors involved rather than simply inducing the whole thing adamantly. I say this not to debate, of course not! I say it because I care.

@Serotoninluv hey, I thought of a simpler way of explaining all this. A person has to be very grounded in his or her values/boundaries. If a person wants a partner in marriage who is loyal, so be it, as long as they don't quit on each other in the lifetime. You got to be grounded in what you want. Otherwise, the person ends up exploring / chasing relationships--just like in stage orange there are excsses in chasing money and sex. And then after the relationship becomes stable, the couple becomes stable, less and less infatuated (honeymoon phase is over), more and more detached, and becomes best friends at least. The relationship continues growing throughout life. That's how it works with any relationships. Then, the relationship phase on Maslow's is over.

I do too. I find that many ppl are not conditioned like this now, not even in India, esp in the modern cities. That video clip on polyandry was from a small village in India. It does not represent the whole India--very far from it. Many arranged marriages there are by choice now, or they go out on their own to choose. It's not like the traditional arranged marriage where the bride and groom meet at the wedding on the first day, and have a 7 days wedding celebration. See, the problem with me saying such things is that no one will know what I'm talking about--not a single bit, unless they're from India or lived there for years. The total number of years I've spent there in my life is more than 13 yrs. How many languages do they speak there? Over 72. Do you see how diverse they are? Entering another state in India or even another city may sometimes feel like you've entered a different country. Let me share with you something else. I was working with this person. She's only 22 yrs old and from another country outside of India. After the first week of her stay, her roommate took her out to a bar, and she got a number from this guy. She showed me his picture, and you know what, right away I knew it wasn't going to work out between the two. I couldn't even say anything to her of how I could tell that he's from a different culture. I did not expect a guy like that to have transended his culture. If I told her, she'll think I'm judging. Internally, I felt pissed. I did not want her to get hurt--physically and mentally. To make a long story short, no it didn't work out, and yes it is because of the big differences in culture. I told her that the biggest reason it didn't work out is because she did not bother to know the environment and different cultures of ppl and mindsets in that city. Ppl do have different mindsets and Spiral Dynamics does apply. She said that her stay would have been very awesome but because of him, he ruined it. She was very stressed out most of the time.

@Serotoninluv yeah, but the disadvantage is, now we're all on different sides with different values and boundaries. And, when we're young, we are usually very naive. We don't take the time to understand the other person. Now, for example, if a person holds the value of, "I'm going to stay virgin until after marriage, and my spouse has to too." This person is projected as a very dogmatic / rigid person. This person may keep this value a very tight secret. It's like being "in the closet" for a gay person. However, ppl don't really know anything about the person. It's just judging and projecting. That's why ppl don't really come out and say who they really are in terms of what they want in life. They are also not helped and guided in the right way to find the right person if they ever speak of their values. It's just criticizing from others.

Polyandry of the Himalayas

Sending love to you and your daughter.

@Pelin I have 2 children. My first one I had when I was 24. Now, within a year, he's going to attend the university. Imo, if you have your children younger instead of waiting, you'll have free time when you're older. You won't have free time when they are babies, but when they grow older and are good with their studies (schoolwork), you'll have some free time to work on yourself. You still have to make sure they are doing well in school and make sure they're taking care of themselves. Then, you'll see them grow more and more independent. But, always be there for them once they are completely independent and not living with you. Please make sure that you're taking care of your health, eating right, and doing plenty of exercises as you get older. That's important.

Different species BFFs: Actually, the crow is the BFF.

To answer my own question(s) that I asked you, something happened during my early childhood. A family was hiding me in their home due to a "racial" war outside. Ppl were being stabbed to death on the street due to their "race." This family didn't want that to happen to me, so they hid me. Anyway, this is just one example. I'm not sure how this is a border. We might be talking about different things. I think what I'm saying is, I met a polygamist in real life who has gone through a lot. He might be capable of doing such things. But, no, I wouldn't want to marry him or become his 3rd wife. What I'm really trying to say is, the ex cannot be the best friend and definitely not the BFF. (I could be wrong.) Having best friend and BFF relationships are more profound than entering into a relationship and leaving one day. If you keep becoming the ex, how long are you going to repeatedly learn the same lessons over and over and over again? Remember that Leo made a video on Sameness vs Differences. This one. The "sameness" applies to relationships too. All healthy, functional relationships have similarities. So that means if you keep breaking up, you did not learn your lessons. To prevent yourself from breaking up in the first place, have patience and learn about the different values and boundaries of different ppl without judging them and most importantly, without entering into a relationship with them. You have to know yourself too (your own values and boundaries). This way, you won't waste your time and energy going into the wrong relationships. Feel free to share thoughts. Another thing I realized is, healthy, functional relationships do grow into best friends and BFFs.

I also have no experience in those types of relationships. The question was: How do you define love in practical life? Let me rephrase it: How do you show love to someone in real life without speaking it?

@Serotoninluv Well, ok, I get what you're saying. You could have 1 profound relationship with someone and that's more than enough to understand the other relationships. And, that relationship doesn't even have to involve sex. Sex all by itself isn't much. I'm talking about relationships. A monk could understand all types of relationships because he's travelling/immigrating and mingling with all types of ppl. Here's another example. You could understand cousin marriages and girls marrying their uncles without getting involved in it. I don't recommend it, ok? That's a "different" "flavor" of love. You're going to see that all profound relationships have similarities and similarities in flavors. Remember Leo's differences and sameness video?

@Serotoninluv I'm talking about practical life, not the "flavors." Looks like the ppl who become exes will only be, at most, "friends" or fb friends. They cannot be best friends and beyond; I never heard of it. Best friends are rare. BFFs are extremely rare. I tried to define it in the relationship area of the forum. Someone told me that in your lifetime it's extremely rare to have three BFFs. Yes, they could be in your family or not. Wait, you don't have to have direct experience of poly to understand poly. For example, I'm not a poly.

@Serotoninluv Since you've been through relationships, you must've learned one of the most important things in life, if not the most important thing. How do you define love (in practical life)? To me, love is what you give, not what you take. It's not being "romantic," holding hands, kissing, thinking someone is pretty or hot. Nope. Those are all infatuation--the icing on the cake. Infatuation is just like a wedding with lots of guests and the honeymoon phase. The real love is the giving--the contributions that you give. How well do you care for the other person? How well do you raise your children? Do you give them enough space (detachment) to develop themselves? If they are not developing themselves properly, do you step in the right way to let them know? Sometimes it's tough love. You know, it's up to you to have children or not. It's up to you to choose to be in whatever type of relationship you want. 100% your choice, ok? However, I'm far more impressed by the polygamist who does love correctly than the polyamorous. Raising a good family is probably one of the toughest things to do in life. I'm not talking about dysfunctional families. That polygamist I saw is actually raising two families. He takes that up as a challenge. He doesn't call it quits on them. One family is not "on the side" or more important than the other one.

@Serotoninluv @Elisabeth Thanks for the info. I was reading polyamorous as polygamist and did not know what is open relationships. Thanks for clearing that up. You know what, I think one of the biggest reason why some ppl continue to stay stuck in cold approaching is because they do not take the time and effort to understand that different ppl want different relationships. They do not take the time to understand that ppl have different boundaries. They are being rejected for these reasons and not because of how they look and how much money they have. Successful relationships take time and lots of patience to understand. No one can explain it in just one post. What I highly recommend, and I said this before, is to learn about different cultures and transend them, including your own. However, when you do that, do not get involved in any relationships, unless you know what's going on. Otherwise, you might end up hurt or in trouble and end up hurting the other person. Here's an example of not understanding and judging someone just because. Let's say someone tells you 'no sex before marriage.' This doesn't prove that the person is dogmatic and that he/she is Christian. It doesn't prove anything. You still don't have any idea of who the person is overall.

Ok, I understand. All relationships are more or less similar. If you have to live with a group of ppl, like your family, for example, a healthy, functional family do care for each other, and understand each other, but they are detached from each other. They give each other their own space. This includes your spouse. Because if you're not detached, you cannot work on yourself, and that's the main thing. It's healthy to have time to work on yourself. The same is true for living in a monestary. The same is true with the polygamist. I guess it's true for these other types of relationships. If it's really profound and it opened your mind, that's great. Congrats. However, I'm not sure why you left just because you didn't want to invest more time into it. I think being married with children is also profound. Lots of lessons learned, lots of challenges, and your whole life goes into it. And, I didn't leave. Been married for 20 yrs. Ok. Let's be open about this. If you are being intimate (having sex) with more than a few, there are more ppl to trust on the AIDS / STDS. This is not a joke.

Hmm...ok good, but I'm not exactly sure what is going on in the relationship section of the forum when ppl are saying that they are into open relationships. A few years ago, I knew of this girl who got AIDS after having 5 bfs. This was in the US. She suffered a very painful death. In other countries, like in "3rd world" countries, you could catch AIDS and other STDs very easily. It's in abundance, esp if you're poor and don't have the money to go to a good hospital. Also, I met a polygamist in real life (not in the US). He has 2 wives and 2 sets of children, living in different houses. The wives don't work and don't talk to each other. I could understand this better. He's a very responsible man who could afford and manage 2 families. At least the children know who is their father. They get to see him everyday. At least when you get married and have children, you'll know how precious time is and learn more responsibilities. It's a tough situation that could take you by surprise if you don't know what it is and can't adjust to it. Marrying into polygamy if you're a man has more responsibilities than monogamy. Polyandrus women have to manage two or more husbands, which is challenging. At least you're responsible and gaining tons of skills by managing multiple families and raising children. What's there to learn in just getting laid? It's just pleasure and distraction from the real work, which involves your life purpose + spiritual path. I noticed after I wrote this, there is a difference in the definitions of polygamy and just "getting laid." The real polygamist doesn't try to avoid responsiblies by dumping his wives and children. He's a real man. If he falls in love with a 3rd girl, he marries her and have children with her. He wants his children to be raised well.

@zoey101 Zoey, I think your friend isn't too careful. He doesn't seem to know the difference between infatuation and love. Love isn't one-sided. He doesn't seem to know her at all and doesn't take the time to know her. He seems to have fallen head over heal over this girl who only seem to use him, and it appears that he got into trouble for it. You may help your friend as you wish but don't get into trouble because of him. He should understand that you have a family to support. Otherwise, ask yourself, "Is he really a friend?" Btw Zoey, I have recently started a thread on different relationships here. Even family members could be considered a leaf, branch, root, or trunk. But see, for your own children, you got to find out how to have very good relationships with them. You got to be at least a best friend to your daughter so that she could learn from the relationship. Thoughts on this?

I thought of something, and I didn't know how to put it into words, but here goes. The definitions of going from a best friend to becoming a BFF are very nuanced. If the person doesn’t define these correctly, the person is likely to end up in the wrong relationships or lets go of the right relationships. (ie. someone who used & treated you like an option when something horrible happened to you. When something tragic happens the relationship is over.) But, why bother to have meaningful relationships? To me, it's meant to help a person grow. You get to see it in real life, instead of just reading a book. You got to apply the theories into real life experiences. Monks don't live alone. They live and interact with other monks and learn from each other, but they are detached from each other.