Key Elements

Let's get deeper into this topic, if we can and if you dare. I think Leo already said that they are one and the same, right @Leo Gura ? Correct me if I'm wrong. In some ways, I do agree with Leo, simply because we are one, but I disagree if a person says that the definition is the same. Why would they even have different names if the definition is exactly the same? Thoughts?

You're welcome.

@Anton_Pierre I'll tell you something. If you present something different, ppl tend not to listen to it. It doesn't matter which group you're in. They will probably misinterpret and misunderstand what you're saying--if what you're saying is valid. It happens everywhere. That's why I encourage ppl to start their own life purpose. That way, they have more freedom to plan whatever they want to say in a constructive way, and even make a career out of it.

Use a different approach. Don't go to them. Make your own sandwich board. Always look at challenges as opportunities. "When life gives you lemons, make lemonade."

All right, I just want to help ppl out without labeling them (if they come into my life purpose). I want to avoid using such word, "delusional." May cause misunderstandings. Doesn't matter psychedelics or not. Words do matter when communicating. Just look at how this teen goes around and calls ppl out using the word "ugly." I like how the doctor communicates with her without becoming like her.

Wait, which statement did I say was deluded?

Have a good lunch. I've seen ppl have the hardest times in their lives, being put into delusions in their childhood, and they themselves became very delusional. Most ppl can't relate to these things. For me, I've seen innocent ppl being stabbed to death during a war in my childhood. War creates bigotry that could last for generations. Most ppl can't relate to these things. You see? They haven't been through it. I feel that most don't know what's a real delusion. I will talk about this in my LP eventually. (Btw, around this time is when my 'Riding the Ox Backwards' happened.) I have to figure out how to present it in my LP. I know I can't just go around saying that certain ppl are delusional. I find calling out ppl to be poor communication.

Yeah, but some ppl really have a hard time getting out of their "delusions." There's no need to make it even harder for them. That's not called helping. In other words, we don't understand exactly what they're going through. So, how can we give them a valid advice? We can't. Unless, we understand their backgrounds and become their best friends. Yeah right, that's a long shot. You also have to question yourself of how much delusion you're in. It's easier to see other ppl in delusion.

Ok. I understand that. I know that he wasn't talking about a specific group of ppl. I'm saying that, if you go around making such statements, some individuals, when they make transitions to improve and actually succeeded, they may not come back to you to learn because they think you're too 'rigid' and gave them a hard time for no reason. They may have the wrong impression of you because of how you treated them and called them out in front of everyone. This is not just true with the psychedelic topic, but it's true for all other topics. Let's say someone told you by accident that he only wants to marry someone within his own race/culture, and then you went around spreading that this person is delusional and racist. He probably won't like it. And, later in life, when he grows out of it, and maybe perhaps become a better person than 'you,' he will try his best to avoid interacting with 'you.' Because he understands that you gave him a hard time when he was the one having a hard time at that phase in this life (with his family and surroundings).

Why do you assume that I don't know the direct truth? That's an assumption. I even said it in this thread. Maybe you might not like the way I said it by using metaphors like 'Riding the Ox Backwards.' I want others to discover it for themselves and make their own conclusions.

Well, if you think that, am I in the wrong? Because I would like to point something out--that I don't really like to call ppl out because sometimes you miss out on their transition. I'd like to bring up something new when a topic starts. Why go for the same answers when we already know it?

It's your choice. To me, I try not to scare ppl off when it comes to interacting with them in my life purpose. I'd rather use a different strategy than calling ppl out. Because once they change (I've seen it happen in real life), they change. You'd feel happy for them. I'd rather be ready to welcome them (back) with open arms when this happens. I like seeing the transition of maturity rather than never knowing that they've made the transition. I'm not just talking about this in a psychedelic case. I'm talking about it in any case.

Just wanted to add... By making such statements and making them bold like this, this will probably scare ppl off or turn ppl off from taking psychedelics. Because they'll get the impression that you're not opened enough to actually hear them out of what happened to them. It's not a good strategy. They'll probably go to someone else who is a good listener. They want to know what's their next step, whether it's psychedelics or not.

You are using the word "delusional" to describe them (stage blue ppl, whoever is calling you out). If you do what they do (by calling them out), what's the difference between you and them? Nothing. Everything is temporary. It may take some ppl five lifetimes to get it. Nevertheless, that's also temporary.

I think it's ok to want something out of it, as long as it's a win-win situation for all. The ego isn't "evil," unless you make it so.

Yes it will. Don't doubt that. Some ppl say, for example, that one does not need a life purpose to have a nature of reality. I think this is very wrong. If you make your life purpose very meaningful, something can happen. There is such thing as karma. Duality is part of non-duality. Something profound did happen to me as I went along in my life purpose. Why is this life not to be lived fully? That's absurd. Life is always showing us that challenges are opportunities. I think if one just keeps inducing himself/herself with psychedelics and expect to live a profound, meaningful life, that sounds suspicious.

@mandyjw @abrakamowse I agree with the both of you too. That's why I said in this thread, the 10 Ox Herding Pics doesn't end in Riding the Ox Backwards. It ends with the Cloth Bag Monk.

Maybe some ppl think like that. Then, there are ppl who think like that and after some time change their opinions. Looks like someone planted the right seeds, or they discovered the right seeds. For instance, I'm not going to go around calling stage blue ppl "losers." Ppl do come out of it.

You really don't know what the other person is thinking. You don't know the exact details. This other person might not be telling you because you're labeling him/her as "delusional" or "anti-psychedelic." No one wants to be labeled. It's too hasty of a conclusion, too simple. I rather be a good listener and listen to all the pros and cons.

This is also an assumption. It's more complicated than this. Ppl are not thinking this--too simple. Human beings are more complicated than this.

Ok... I was trying to say: how are you going to communicate your direct experience? Definitely not by going around telling anyone. That's why for most ppl, it goes in one ear and out the other.

Assume? I said it that it doesn't matter whether you take psychedelics or not. If a person continues to get steady growth, that's great. However, how is it that you're going to show it? In general, ppl do want to improve their lives. That's by nature. You're not going to improve ppl's lives by going around telling them over and over again that you are God and that you created this world. Actions speak louder than words. What is your life purpose? If you go around telling ppl, it's not effective.

I'm not arguing against psychedelics, and I'm not arguing against Leo, but everything has pros and cons. If you look at the 10 Ox Herding Pics and had an enlightenment experience, you will understand that Riding the Ox Backwards is enlightenment. You become God and transform back into your ego, and at the same time, create the world/universe. I said this before. The question is, how many times are you going to take psychedelics to get this experience? Forever? In that case, you're stuck. As you can see, Riding the Ox Backwards isn't the end of the story. It's the Cloth Bag Monk. What does this mean? You have to live life. Life itself is a setup of: Challenges are opportunities. Do you see any challenges presented to you as opportunities? If you don't do this, enlightenment may never come to you--doesn't matter psychedelics or not.