What Am I

Awesome, congrats on having a major 5-MeO-DMT experience. Did your facilitator not discuss reactivations with you? 5-MeO-DMT is special in the sense that it can continue to intermittently produce effects for up to two weeks after the trip, and sometimes even longer. We discussed it in more detail and provided links to more resources in this recent thread: If you need any help beyond these resources, I wouldn't mind trying to answer any questions you may have.

Another one bites the dust. Funny how everyone always thinks their own actions reflect the will of God. It's obviously true in an absolute sense. But in a relative sense, it's a dangerous way to live your life that's caused countless atrocities.

I find this to be likely closer to accurate. Your original designation as grifter, which in all fairness you've retracted, was assigning malice and/or opportunism to his motives, which seemed a bit much to me. For my limited analysis, I am mostly observing both how he treats his own body and what he has said. When listening to his enthusiasm for health, it reminds me of myself and others who become obsessed with the search for healthier choices (proper bodyweight, diet, exercise, etc.). So I feel I've identified him as a certain type of individual. I guess you could call it a healthnut. Based on the same data points you've seen, I feel his intentions are likely pure, at least in so far as I believe he genuinely wants citizens of the US to be healthy. Now, whether his ideas are actually effective and good for the country is certainly up for debate. I'm pretty sure you would say his ideas will be ineffective, as they can be considered alternative and not in line with mainstream scientific thinking around health. Or, as you put it, he's a crackpot. And that's perfectly fine if you think that, because why on earth would you think otherwise? I can understand and empathize with your position. To me, the concept of "believe in science" treats it as a monolith and even gives it religious overtones. I don't want to rehash the same tired argument that's occurred a million times, but suffice it to say, I don't think science should be viewed like that. It brings excessive amounts of human psychology into something that holds the ideal of being objective. Really though, we're probably just spinning our wheels in trying to prejudge what'll happen. As you said, we'll just have to wait and see how it all unfolds.

The last time you and I discussed the taboo subject of incest, you gave a pretty effective argument in the positive that budged my opinion a bit. I definitely could be wrong, but I sense you may also believe there's no moral issue for adults to have sexual relations with children, assuming everything is consensual. Would you be able to lay out the reasoning? And if I've inaccurately attributed an opinion to you, I apologize.

Another way to understand the distinction is by studying Ken Wilber's developmental models for "waking up" and "growing up." It's not wise to accept any model as the absolute truth, because a map is simply not equivalent to the territory, but it can at least help you understand why you shouldn't be so quick to bundle a bunch of other things with awakening. https://www.perennial-counseling.com/blog/ken-wilbers-stages-of-development-a-guide-to-waking-up-growing-up-and-cleaning-up

Learn to embrace the commandments of your new Lord in Health.

Do you at least believe that it's possible to induce profound states of consciousness using psychedelics and/or meditation? Out of curiosity, do you have any personal experience with either of those methods? I can totally understand if you're skeptical that a mystical state is anything other than an illusion in the practitioner's mind. It's silly to expect you to believe otherwise when all the modern trappings point you to that seemingly obvious conclusion. And there's almost no point in trying to convince you using text on a screen. It's one of those things that you need to experience for yourself and then decide whether it's you who is crazy or whether society at large is mistaken. The answer could be shocking and unexpected.

Given the metrics you're using to judge him, I guess it's not inconceivable to come to the conclusion that he's grifting about health. I don't agree, but I can see how you got there.

It's possible, but considering how much he talks about health, I'd hazard a guess that he typically eats a whole food diet as well as performing all the other known healthy behaviors. It'd probably be erroneous to assume he frequently eats McDonald's based on that one picture. You can hate him for a bunch of reasons, but I think it's silly to stretch things into absurdity when critiquing him.

Right, it's actually his 5-MeO-DMT and DMT breakthroughs that would give him a status above the average person in my mind, at least where temporary glimpses of transcendent consciousness are concerned. Anyone who's never experienced it just simply can't understand. But if you know, you know. So he's at least touched on significant states of consciousness, even if he doesn't realize what he experienced. Most people live their whole lives in the dark without ever seeing beyond the mundane.

My bad, I was feeling snarky when I made my earlier comment. I shouldn't have acted so superior. Like I mentioned, I like Joe Rogan. But I suppose you're correct that I do put awakening on a pedestal as something extremely special and rare. Not that it has to be. I believe anyone could perform the requisite exercises in awareness and consciousness, but the mass majority simply aren't even aware it's an option. I'd unfortunately include Rogan as someone who just doesn't know what he doesn't know.

Well, to be fair, a significant amount of muscle mass is an important indicator of good health, especially as you age. It's metabolically active on its own and has an absolute ton of downstream effects involved in increased health span and longevity. It's not just about aesthetics. I'm not trying to say RFK in particular is the picture of health. Obviously muscle mass can be taken too far, and if he is on an excessive amount of exogenous testosterone, that also becomes overall deleterious to health.

This is kind of off topic, but what are your thoughts on whether there are compromises to human health when adopting a long-term vegan diet? I was previously a vegetarian for over 10 years, and even though I included dairy, I still felt like something vital was lacking. I'm asking from a place of curiosity rather than a gotcha.

If we're now saying Rogan has any significant amount of awakening beyond incidental peripheral openings due to psychedelic use, we've watered down the word so as to be completely useless. And I actually even like the guy, but awakening has a particular meaning that should be respected.

Yeah, that's for sure. I once had a week-long stretch of reactivations that were entirely disruptive to my life. I had to call off work and hunker down until it finally dissipated. I believe there's a couple factors occurring here. First of all, it's 100% the case that a 5-MeO-DMT breakthrough can color the effects of other psychedelics for a few weeks at least, if not much longer. It's similar to how you might imagine it, where a door has seemingly been opened between yourself and God, or more precisely, yourself as God. An opening that powerful doesn't just immediately slam shut, so bits of that power shine through when you're in a heightened state, whether from psychedelics or something like meditation. But secondly though, LSD is special in that it has a propensity to cause a non-dual state all by itself that's similar to 5-MeO-DMT's. So taking LSD when you're still within a couple weeks of a 5-MeO-DMT breakthrough increases the chances even more of eliciting the state. It's all very cool and interesting, but I've found it's best to take it easy and let yourself energetically integrate after a major breakthrough. No need for other psychedelic trips for a little bit. If you push things too far, you'll find yourself spinning off into some seriously uncomfortable states.

I must admit, I have nobody in my life who would be so unusual as to put a drop of bleach in their coffee. If I did, it's possible I'd feel the same as you in terms of the strong desire to advise against it. I can see how that might influence you to feel fed up and not think highly of their abilities of discernment. It's possible that I don't realize how strange things have gotten.

It's a tough one, for sure. As you say, there's really no squaring the circle. The philosophies are too fundamentally different and are, in fact, usually opposites. I suppose something that could help though would be to always offer a good-faith interpretation of the other side's best ideas. It's often so easy to do otherwise. Also, the idea of believing one is the rightful owner of truth seems very dangerous. Everything is relative and complex, and those beliefs that you hold as certainties now are subject to change drastically as time goes on. It's fine to think you're most likely correct on any given subject, but it becomes a little toxic when it's pushed into religious zones of absolutes. That type of thing can slam closed a door, while humility has the power to open it. Really though, the best way to deal with the problem (or to at least protect yourself) may end up being to get a gun.

@Joshe It's funny how even something as fundamental as the meaning of good health has become divided into separate camps of thought, with each being fully convinced by their own philosophy and having no interest in trying to square the circle. The more I consider it, the more it seems like some major form of conflict is inevitable. Both in the US and abroad. What a mess.

Yes, but it's an example where exposure to new ideas produces a productive, self-fueled obsession. It was the same for me when I first started actively caring about my own health beyond the base level of merely staying alive. As you can imagine, my quality of life has been transformed now for many years. Similar to an RPG video game, the act of continuous self-improvement becomes gamified, and the desire to keep pushing flows naturally and easily. If the right starts spreading this same mentality to the masses, that alone will account for radical changes in the nation's health. It'd be tough to knock them on that form of propaganda.

I think the constant environment of extremely negative discourse around Trump nudged many to be hesitant in vocalizing their support. This applies to regular people as well as major influencers. A few examples would be Lex Fridman, Joe Rogan, and Aubrey Marcus, along with so many others who are finally making their full opinions regarding Trump known. A really surprising example is Ana Kasparian. I'm sensing that she'd like to throw in her support and express her enthusiasm, but she's still a little afraid of the stigma that's developed over time. So I believe it's for this reason that his actual popularity has come as a shock once again.

Exactly, it's been a common occurrence for decades at hacking conferences like Defcon, where exploits are demonstrated on voting machines. I'm more on the blue team in security, but I bet even I could flip votes if given access. And those are just the vulnerabilities we know about. It may be an "emperor has no clothes" situation where the public perception is concerned.

I appreciate you being willing to take the plunge with me in voicing this opinion. I bet we're not the only two who suspect it. This is probably something many on the left (which I realize doesn't strictly define you) secretly assume, but they don't dare voice it due to all the tripwires and social stigma involved. And I guess even if it's true, it probably wouldn't be for the best if it was part of common parlance on both the left and the right.

Gandhi was awesome where consciousness is concerned, but all people have their complexities. I'm not sure any living human is the perfect picture of heavenly light and perfection that some of us hold in our minds. Taking Gandhi for example, he would regularly sleep in the same bed as 12-year-old girls, with the intention of exercising his ability to maintain his celibacy. Can I say for certain that he didn't in fact fondle these little girls over and over? I'm just not sure. But he wouldn't be the first accomplished guru who gets caught up in sex scandals. And in the eyes of many, just performing the act of deliberately sleeping next to the girls was a very inappropriate display of a power imbalance. To be clear, I don't necessarily care what Gandhi did or didn't do. I'm just presenting an example where some people would judge him harshly for his actions.

Kind of a side question but also kind of related; did you ever end up doing the mushrooms you discussed a few months ago? It may be easy to have a shallower idea of what awakening means until you've witnessed what's really possible in consciousness.

Very true that it could be interpreted as sincere. And I'd be lying if I didn't admit it's a possibility in the future. I certainly hope not.