eskwire

@Socrates I am not speaking purely in the abstract but from enlightenment "experiences" and seeing how such conceptual teachings "unlock" it in retrospect. And why shouldn't this topic be mixed with enlightenment? Are there only certain topics you can discuss regarding enlightenment? The practical advice was to change your meditation style. Did you miss it while judging the advice and telling me I'm not allowed to talk about enlightenment right now? ? If you want another exercise besides changing your meditation style, you can ask yourself questions about the veracity of your judgements. For example: Thought: "Kathleen should talk about judgement in terms of personal development and not enlightenment." Is that true? "It seems true." But is it ABSOLUTELY true? "Well, no...." PS I say that SDS is "judgemental" because you are forcing a situation. Deeming it uncool to move. That's not a bad thing and some people need the concentration. It seems that is not to your particular greatest benefit.

@Socrates It is a fact that you are not "right," in the sense that our abilities to conceptualize, parse, and label necessitate leaving out parts of reality. We simply cannot and do not have the ability to process all infinite variables. It is a common mistake to assume that enlightened people, those who live completely immersed in the moment, are passive. That is simply a matter of, again, dividing what need not be divided. A false dichotomy. Peaceful/passive vs aggressive/active. It is amazing how much more powerful and effective a person is once it is not identified with the mind. When the mind becomes a tool, you can really make things happen. As Peter Ralston says, you also tend to act in a way that seems more moral. Not because you have placed restrictions on your activities, but because immoral, selfish, deluded behavior just seems stupid. This stuff is confusing because you have not yet experienced liberation, so all of these concepts are just concepts to you. And they don't make sense in your paradigm. They seem contradictory. It appears you are doing the most judgemental meditation hahahaha. Try "do nothing" or mindfulness instead.

@Socrates You think you have more control than you do. You also think that your judgements are correct and, therefore, useful. This is why you judge so much - seems only reasonable if you believe you are in control and are right. Of course, you don't have control and you aren't right. What kind of meditation are you doing? If you try to gain understanding of the illusory nature of your assessments of "good and bad," you will put your discerning character to good use. The Buddha said there were 3 personality types - people who criticize everything when they walk in the room being one of them. There is a lot of potential for yours - as long as you turn it on yourself.

Why does it matter what others have done? I'm sure there are people on this forum who are way more consistent than I am. They consistently implemented something practical he said and saw results in that area. That won't change my inconsistency. Him ranting about enlightenment made me actually consider it a real possibility, despite being part of a Buddhist sect for 4 years prior. I had never considered enlightenment. Now, I feel completely different about life but the external stuff looks the same. Where are you and what is actually going to happen for you?

@PetarKa True. I often forget this. This may not be truly helpful, but I try to comment sometimes - in the type of way we engage on the forum.

@john5170 Try a different technique, yes. Like what Leo says about stage 2 - notice a thought then let it go - rinse - repeat. Or try mindfulness. I personally find the do nothing technique useless because I could zone out for hours on end anyway. I'm a space cadet. It's not what some people need.

To anyone else left confused after enlightenment experiences, this End of Your World audiobook is (after 1 chapter) already very helpful and appropriate. Highly recommended! You can do a free month on Audible and get it there. Thank you @Toby

So, luckily, this video just went up where Peter Ralston discusses love and compassion. I had some confusion about this. After having some transcendent experiences, my capacity to love (as I previously understood it) diminished. The loyalty and weighty concern about individual people have lifted. And I expected it to be replaced by an unconditional emotion of love for humanity. Instead, I just don't really care. The flipside of that is that I am more present during interactions. Also, the converse feelings of frustration, disappointment, and hatred have lifted. Basically, the egoic love is gone. The one with expectations, riddled with needs deficiencies. But I expected a replacement with something altruistic and analogous. That didn't happen. Does anyone else have a similar experience?

Why?

Engagement, goals, and results are not only a product of ego. This is a mistake many people make. Imagine being enlightened and living with full presence. You also see something that can be created or fixed. You make a goal to create or fix it. You know it doesn't matter unless it's created or fixed - so you pursue the result. This has the same results as someone who neurotically pushes themselves to create or fix something so they feel like they are somebody of importance. It is a drastically different way to live, however. The results are the results. They don't have to come from a neurotic place of the ego. My take on the authentic self is...it's you, your character, when your ego is out of the way. Not all enlightened people act the same. They have a character about them. And they are authentic in that character or use affects merely as tools for work (such as public speaking or teaching). In the peace of not living fakery and neurosis, there is "happiness."

@Paradigm Self inquiry, the Neti Neti method, made the biggest difference in neurosis.

Ah ok. I understand. Like...you can meditate but can you meditate "with your eyes open." I feel different after my enlightenment experiences, like I can meditate with my eyes open, but the love thing isn't there. It seems like I am just expecting something to feel a certain way. Maybe because I deeply got SO INTO people beforehand. People meant everything to me. I would go crazy helping them, accepting them, thinking about them, making everyone a priority before myself, eliminating healthy boundaries for them. I was an enthusiastic doormat.

Meditation is sitting in what's true. If what's true at the time is not a feeling of bliss, it doesn't make it a false meditation. I felt wonderful during my enlightenment experiences, but was it love? Maybe we need to talk differently about what love is. If it's a deep regard for humanity, I've always had that and that hasn't disappeared. There just isn't an emotion I would think to label "love" along with it. Maybe it's just the preconceived notions about what love is confusing the situation.

Nope.

No.

Thank you. I will look into it. Do you remember anything about this trap you could share now?

Frustration is gone not increased. I did not feel love during my enlightenment experiences.

@ashashlov Ha! I wondered if it was a back to square one issue. But I also considered it to be part of a transitional period, as @Martin123 said. Maybe our whole concept of love just got shattered and now there is a new process beginning.

@ashashlov Right, it's like the compassion is there in that everything is clearer and not caught up in what *I* wanted, needed, believed, etc. But it doesn't feel like anything. My aunt thinks my heart has turned into a lump of coal, but I feel less hateful, more peaceful, than ever. Edit. Take that back. My heart was a hateful lump of coal for a while. She probably remembers that.

It's ok. I wish all you dudes were Peter Ralston. ?

Oh also. Anxiety attacks are really perpetuated by fears of something physical happening. So when this happens, remind yourself that these have happened before and your heart hasn't stopped. The anxiety attack does not equal a stopped heart. You have all the evidence you need of this.

Well, you have a physically entrenched anxiety issue at this point. That's my diagnosis. Chanting is a great way to suppress that overreactivity, but it is hard to recommend that to people. They won't do it. I chant something different that is more complicated, but I have read scientific literature on chanting OM and it seems effective. Look into that. Good luck and maybe check your fear of surrender.

This got real nerdy real quick.

You're a better person than I am for actually looking into him. I had too much work to do today. I think libertarians, assuming he associates to a degree with that, are an unfortunate people. They are often smart and passionate, but believe so deeply in free will that they lose all perspective on the clockwork orange-ness of our being...and this turns hateful. I'll give this a real listen this weekend and take down some notes. I'll have to skip the shitty glam rock tho. Jesus.

Yeah, I can't watch this. He's wasting my existence with terrible music, general douchiness, and backing of a nationalist right wing candidate so if he says something compelling, write it in the thread.