Ishanga

The Biggest problem is we get trapped in the words, the methods and the path itself. When I taught martial arts, I saw this big time, ppl didn't want to come there to learn how to fight or defend ones self, they came because they got interested in the training itself, the path of sort of how to get the skill set.. So if that is true, then the person leading this, inventor of the method, the Guru/Teacher per say becomes the expert, the ego attaches to this, but ego is false self, like your image in the mirror its a reflection of You, not You... So once the methods and teachings do their job, which is too transform your interior, inner experience, are You still a slave to situations outside of Yourself, or can You master Your response, are you generally Peaceful every moment of every day (or do You like misery?), that is how You know the methods and teachings are working for You.. Forget these stupid words like God, Infinity or Imaginary, these mean nothing if Your depressed and can't get out of bed in the morning, but when Your High on Life, then You conditioning kick in and you go to what You know, these stupid words... Just use this stuff like getting into a car and going to the store, You don't talk about it so much, You just use it and then forget about it...

This language, God, Duality, Infinity and such is ppl trying to sound "Spiritual" but are not, in simple terms it ego manifesting in one's writing and expression, the so called "Spiritual Ego syndrome". In reality there is just You, and the experiences You are having within Yourself, what is the quality of that Experience on a regular basis. When you are in deep sleep, where is this so called God? Nothing exists for YOU when in deep sleep, but your body is still doing its basic functioning, breathing is happening, heart is beating, blood flowing, energy is distributing, maintenance is happening as well, what is controlling all of this? Whatever it is, its the samething that is controlling everything else, what is controlling the spinning of the planet, how did is start in the first place and how did the conditions that allowed it too start come into existence? Explain that then You have Your answer, but for me its just a form of Grand Intelligence, that was created in a split second, it allows (not runs) everything to be as it is, and what makes you stay alive when Your passed out in sleep, If You can find out more of what this is, then Your living at a higher level of existence than most any other life form, with that You will control most everything that is happening within You, and that is the most important thing to happen in Your life because all there really is is what is happening within YOU!

Just imagine if no Spiritual Teaching, No Guru's or Leaders/Teachers, No Religion, No Jesus, Mohammed, ever existed, what would the world look like? Imo, the world today, although we have technology and science which gives us great comforts and conveniences, and allows us to supposedly live longer healthier lives, we are not doing so good! I would say the consciousness level of the planet is generally not very high, but there are probably more conscious ppl on the planet than ever before but the population is at its highest point so I think still the majority of ppl are still wrapped in their own little worlds, concerned about themselves or maybe another person they love or family members, but that is about it.. When I go out in public, which is everyday at my job, I see lots of things, I see public politeness but the exact opposite, I believe one can judge the consciousness level pretty well by observing their driving behaviour, if its bad then they don't give a shit about You or anyone else, if its good then they do, its that simple... I see about 50% of the ppl that are driving around don't give a shit about You or others, another 30% care but are in a rush in that particular situation, and the rest do care or care too much about themselves and safety and hold things up by being too cautious... If we look at all the Wars going on, the political arguments and inability to work together, the corruption in corporations, the plane old greed and lack of concern for others, the Criminal element in the world is nuts, drug addictions are sky high because ppl want to numb their pain, Depression/Anxiety/Mental Health at record lows, this is a direct sign of low consciousness, yeah I meet ppl that seem relatively nice but when push comes to shove are low consciousness level of Awareness.. So this imo is the way it is now, if no teachings and methods for empowering one's self were around, or where never developed to be passed down generation to generation then I think this planet would be a absolute disaster, worse than now, but ppl complain about Guru worship and following someone to closely to be objective, lol, some ppl are Devotee's which I never hear about around here, its all about taking drugs, getting a grand experience, finding "God" or "Infinity" then coming down and thinking You know it all, or nothing exists, everything is Imaginary, there is Only One Absolute nothing else exists, BS like this, once inawhile I will read a post where someone is actually talking about something important, which is the Quality of Your Experience, is it Joyful or Miserable, and methods on how to get that in your life, this comes from using Time Tested methods, so You can get there in this lifetime, not many or not at all in this lifetime, which I find is the most Valuable Information we can have on this earth today because the Earth, not just us Humans, are in big Trouble!

Firstly when it comes to Spirituality words really mean nothing, all the stuff being written here today or the last week, will be replaced with more and more threads, talking back and forth, words being misinterpreted, misused and mistaken! Spirituality is beyond all of these words, so whether You say it or I say it, or anyone says it, ppl can do what they want, if they need to learn a lesson they will, if they have learned the lessons and still want to be a Devotee, who are You to tell them otherwise!! One persons pedestal is Another persons God!

I don't want God, I don't know what that is, other than what ppl have said and the books written about God, which in the end are all but stories to me.. I want Bliss as my foundational Emotional state, I know that all Experience happens within Me, no where else, I know that if I stop all Stress Response, no matter what is happening (via the Accept all that is, Live Now and Respond rather than React methodology) that Peace can be my starting point in this venture, soon after Peace will become more intense and turn into Happiness, Joy then Bliss.. I know that my Body and MInd are just accumulations of sorts, Body via Food that I have eaten, Mind via the data input from my 5 senses, conditioning via my culture/society that I was brought up in and teachings, learning experiences(clinging to memory) and such, and if I can calm all of this down and stop identifying with Body/Mind, I can experience something else, what was there before all of this and have a more high quality experience of Life other than just working, eating, sleeping, sex, drugs, accumulating more experience and whatever else to only find it leave you empty looking outside to stimulate inside experiences and then dying...

Intellectual hogwash language that keeps one in the loop of thinking mind patterns based on date collected and rehashed, means nothing, will get one know where on the path of spirituality, or just trying to get out of bed when they feel like dying inside!!!!!

It may be helpful for those in desperate need of spiritual guidance, but its not the real thing, it not a method to use or a real insight, just regurgitated from data collected and reorganized to appear attractive to ppl that like to talk about spirituality and stay in that intellectual trap of talking, asking questions, gettting answers, pondering then coming up with more questions and getting trapped in that loop...when will the actual realization happen within one that allows them a experience that transforms them for the rest of their lives? I like this forum for entertainment for the most part, it allows me to share on the spiritual level, I don't have that luxury with anyone else in my life, but in the end its a circle go round, real work has to be done by each of us, to find the truth of nature and realize it for ourselves, this addiction to computers, internet, looking outward for answers will only get worse with a relatable AI communicating back to you seeming to be a spiritual guide of sorts, its like having AI friends or partners, you begin to think this is real when its completely fake!

We have animal nature in us for sure I agree, I don't think we "are animals", we are Human we have no limits on how we can experience life, animals do, they can come close to us in certain ways (think tigers in captivity, they can seem pretty nice and emotionally attached to ppl, but can turn on a dime, their inborn instinct is much stronger than ours, our intellects/logical mind takes over from instinct and blocks it much more nowadays), but humans are capable of experiencing all of existence, living like a virtual God within themselves, no other life on this planet can do this... Your still in Survival mode "dude", whether its in the jungle or woods or the corporate board rooms in New York city, they all want more, more of whatever their mind is identified with, power, wealth, fire, wood shelter, women, sex,drugs etc... that is just survival in a tuxedo lol! We are capable of much more than this as human beings!

Yes and this denotes and points out that there is individuality, as well as Oneness and connectedness, so therefore one can be a Ramakrishna themselves in Experience or they can be a Cave Man in experience, its available to anyone, and actually easier today if one wants it enough, but to say all is imaginary, there is no individuality, no need to do anything or change anything is very off course and plane wrong imo!

I have to agree with Leo, there is allot of nonsense talk around here, absolutism talk around here, its all or nothing. You cannot deny a persons experience, just go on the Mental Health, Emotional Issues forum and tell those ppl that what they are feeling is just imagination, it doesn't exist, all there is is all of us as One! Its a bunch of BS, I've had depressive times in my life, even after years of spiritual practice, I've realized it was mostly Ego based sort of depression now after looking back but it was not a pleasant experience let me tell You, but I was able to get myself out of it and now am in a very stable place for the most part .. Life is open to all possibilities, not just God/Oneness Absolutism, one first has to Realize this and have it as an Experience for it to be real, so rather than always bring this up, talk more about relatable things, how to feel empowered, what sorts of ways to get that sort of experience on a consistent basis, Arguing about language differences and things like Consciousness as all, God is infinite, I am God, all oneness, at times it means absolutely nothing and means nothing when the same threads get repeated over and over with the same result, a circle jerk of nothing changes!

Oh Okay, that's cool, its like some doors are opening up which is life at Ease in some ways, which is very cool as well, its the way it should be:)

This is just a sign of some siddhis coming up and playing with You, I get this sometimes too, not with this forum but other things going on, its just a potential awakening within Us, we just can't get too attached to it,,,I am not sure if it is about connectedness, or that we are all the same because it has to do with personal intentions and egoic mind stuffs, that is individual imo...or just a psychic realm being opened up, the Mind itself has many powers that look extraordinary, but are natural when we shut off the thinking process and calm ourselves, and this is just mind level stuff, there is much more is one is really open!! The YT stuff is just us being spied on, what we say here is being spied on and used for some data collection and what our interests are,,,My Wife and I were talking about something the other day and then she saw some ads related to it on her social media feeds, how is that possible one may say, our phones are microphones and everything is being recorded somewhere and used to make someone else rich lol!!

Religion is mostly about Belief nowadays generally speaking, some may have true experiences but it may be illusionary or such, who knows, all I can see of another is how they act and judge based on that, but I try to stay away from judging ppl as much as possible, its egoic in nature and creates division in my experience of life.. Spirituality is the science of directly experiencing the non physical aspect of what we are, my thoughts are non physical, my feelings and memories and such are non physical but they can manifest in physical ways. In Yoga we do not talk about God, and Infinity and such grandiose things, as they can all be imagined and Maya like, so we start from where we are at, I want a constant state of Peace as my foundation, then Bliss then Oneness/Completeness experience, its possible and can be achieved thru using of methods, again like martial arts training ( I use to teach marital arts),l one learns the training method, it physically produces a change in ones bodily response and ability to deliver attacks and defend, its the same with Yoga, you do the practices, learn the philosophy of its teachings, apply it for real in daily life (Live Now, Accept Now, Respond to Now absolutely), then go from there, maybe Enlightenment is more a possibility now for you, or its just a Happier, Healthier, more Intense and connected living Experience.. Some ppl in Spirituality have made it into a Religion for themselves, its more belief than anything, they have not used the methods or opened themselves up in a way that they are receptive to what is available to them via a non intellectual or belief sort of way, they think too much, put on shows of devotion and kindness too much but within themselves they are just a miserable as anyone else living a normal life..

Belief - Picked up information from sources other than Yourself (books, video's, news, papers, other ppl relating stories) related to some sort of ideology, religion, political group/system or situation happening somewhere.. Knowledge - something I know via having used/been there, in either in a physical way (think marital arts training, it first is a concept, then you train then use it), or mental way (I don't know math, I learn math, then I use math), or something I have learning via experience, like driving in Toronto, I know it is shit driving experience because I drive it everyday for years, I know what is it via my experience of it.. Direct Experience - usually associated with Spiritual Knowing and such, its a direct experience of Bliss, or Oneness/Completeness, indescribable, it can be described but the person/s listening will not relate to it unless they themselves have had a direct experience, think of a woman describing to a man what it is like to give birth, the man can relate to what she says, the pain of the labor, the pushing and such but he will never know the direct experience of having a baby and going thru the process of it, which is a different level of intensity of Experience..

Logic is great for surviving another day, its what has allowed us a Human Being to stay around as a species, since we are so weak in some many ways compared to other life forms, if we had no intellect/logic apparatus then we would not be here on this forum chatting BS. But survival is only one level of living experience, animals do this will little effort, its born into them instinctual, but we can go way beyond this experientially and otherwise...

Luck, Timing, Talent and of course some dedication and commitment as secondary elements.. Luck - Completely random events coming together, somehow being in the right place, meeting right ppl, doing right things all happening at once or in a short period of time.. Timing - certain situations are in place at certain times, so via that one may enter into that sort of thing at the right time so that they can execute a plan or offer a service or product! Talent - One must know their subject matter, be an expert or master at it, and be able to spontaneously create or take advantage of something coming into their life... Look at Stallone, came from almost nothing, yeah he had some small acting roles, but when that didn't pan out he thought about writing, and isolated himself, wrote some shit screen plays, but went out, saw the Ali fight, had an idea, wrote it down, offered it up, got the right opportunity, stuck to his guns, re wrote the script many times, and when the movie came out (they didn't think it would be offered up in big venues, maybe drive ins or even released), it made it big time (the timing was right, it was anti hero, very negative type films coming out at that time, nothing like Rocky was made or in anyone's mind to be made except Stallone), and here we are some 48yrs later and the guy is still in the public eye and has had lots of material and fame success and admiration from millions, beside the fact he has inspired billions of ppl...

I think a big challenge in Spirituality (which is the Science of Experiencing that dimension within You that is not physical in nature) is there are two core groups, those that are Absolutist, "There is only Consciousness, Brahman, Grand Intelligence, God, and that's it, everything else is imaginary, maya, illusion, non existent", now if you research Indian Eastern Spirituality, some say that everything that is impermanent is non existent, so our bodies, minds, buildings, material things, everything that will someday not be around is non existent, but is that really true? Well it may be in the long run, but right now my Body feels pretty real and not imaginary or non existent, lol, so the ppl in this camp are denying Creation in a way... Then the next group are those that Start from where they are at, they don't talk or think about God, Brahman, Maya, Cosnciousness and all this stuff, they just want to stop suffering and live a better life, so that starts with being Peaceful of Your own nature, naturally. Methods like Yoga are in this group, there is a method, technique, use it and this will help you stop the Stress Response and allow You to be more Peaceful in Experience, and well it works with the Energy systems and such, then once a stable base is there things will start to happen, life transforms... Both can work, as everyone has different Karmic makeups, some are new souls others old souls per say, so that is why we have so many ways to look at it and describe it and get to the ultimate Realization of Oneness and Completeness, Sat Chit Ananda-->Truth Consciousness Bliss...

Yes, there are states of Consciousness, in relation to Wakefulness, if You are Dead Asleep, you experience and perceive nothing in your Consciousness, speaking about individual Consciousness, when you awake from Sleep then you become more conscious or Aware, then we have Realization. Then there is the Consciousness that You are talking about the is before all perception, awareness, sense organ input and thoughts/feelings/memory/experiences etc,, this is akin to Brahamn or what was there before Creation (Shiva), in the West some call this Consciousness, this is place of Oneness, Completeness, no Duality and no expression or individualization..this place holds all potential and possibility.. We are here to work this all out, in a place where potential can be expressed, so it has duality, materiality, expression, cognition, trillions of life forms, Karma at play and such, for us as Human Beings with Individual Body/Mind complexes, we can actually work out this potential in the form of Awareness and Free Will, we can be Aware enough to know we are connected and one with everything, while living in individual bodies and minds, if one strives to go beyond survival instinct and ego identifications...

I have to agree with Shodburrito, generally speaking first We are Pieces of Life, then We are Human Being, and expression/form of Life, then we are Male/Female, Masculine/Feminine, the male/female part is strictly for reasons of procreation and serving a survival purpose, the Masculine/Feminine part represents the Duality in nature, Masculine traits are represented as moving forward, action, building up, intensity and such, Feminine is settling down, calm, creativity, silence and such, now both sexes have all of these traits within them, but if you identify too much one way or the other you will miss out on many things, balance is needed, so that is the effort in Spirituality, to bring them both together and have a sense of Oneness and Completeness. The main problem today in society is we are way to identified with our Intellects, which separate and divide, intellect is like a sharp knife, it cuts things up to be able to mentally understand everything so we can survive another day, so when this can happen regarding any subject matter, it can be dissected to death, and made to be logical, but this is not the way to understand something, you have to be Inclusive, to include it and connect with it to understand something totally, not dissect it and divide it, so because of this Addiction, we see more differences in things than Commonalities and sameness, which in the end causes wars, suffering for all living things as we are seeing today in the world!

Everything is on levels, there is the Absolute, non physical reality some call Brahman, God, Grand Intelligence, its beyond subtly, what was there before the big bang (if that even happened at all), then things get more gross and come into existence, from Silence to Sound and everything in between, there not just Absolute and that's it, but Absolute is the foundation of it all, but we do have Creation, planets, Us and Earth as we perceive it, I think too many think one way or the other way to absolutely, one has to see it all, and how it all interplays with one another!

I kinda look at it this way via my own experience and researching, we are individuals, with individual body/minds, but this is not fundamentally what we are.. I like how Sadhguru says it, he says there is not Your Life and My Life, its just a matter of how much Life You have captured and are Aware of, akin to a bubble with air inside of it, Karma is the lining of the buddle, it allows the bubble to be formed, if no bubble the air just melds with the rest of the air in the atmosphere, so we are like the bubble but with minds and bodies, movement, thoughts and conditioning/karma in place, so in that way we are individual and have free will to decide to be a doctor, teacher, unemployed, happy, sad, healthy, sick, rich or poor, but some karma controls your life situation around you, how you respond to this is your choice, that is where the Free Will is, how I choose to respond, some are living in the poorest of places but are still happy, some are living in the most wealth places and are depressed or anxious, so that is where individual consciousness comes into play, Awareness of what we are allows a high intensity of Consciousness to be in our perception, at the sametime we are One with everything, connected to everything but have individuality on some level, both Oneness/Inclusiveness and Individuality/Duality are at play here simultaneously..

These Political Threads, perfect example of Intellect going out of Control, so much analysing so much division, assumption, data input and spitting it out to find some sort of answers, but Everyone comes back tomorrow with more questions and answers, one big loop of nothing! I live in Toronto, Canada, I don't like this city, but I'm free to do just about anything I want other than infringing or hurt another, we have massive problems in this city and country, but I can determine my own experience within somewhat so that I don't go crazy with it, except in traffic for some reason, was in Cancun recently on vacation, so what is there to complain about, other than Intellect go round and round in circles like here!

this is Acceptance in its absolute form, but again we are communicating, talking, exchanging ideas and concepts, this is not spirituality or the "real deal" just conceptualizing it, too many ppl take it as the real thing, I think that is what Your doing, your here on the forum communicating, as soon as You do that, and me after reading what You say its all concept, so that is where I am coming from, from that we can differ on things, or label things and catagorize things, so imo Your Top Down method, no problem with it if that is possible for someone, others there are problems with it as they can't even get out of bed in the morning never mind accepting anything as it is..nothing is absolutely right or wrong, but being Blissful is the basics and helps on this journey!

Yes ultimately Yes, but can You do it right now? If You can't we have to start from where we are, "I cannot stop making up stories, I believe there is an "I", I believe I am a Self".. Your starting from the Top Down method and Realization, its all Maya, nothing exist, I just Am, bla bla bla, but what is Your present experience of Life right now? If You were in realization of the Top Down way, You would for sure be in Bliss, are You right now or at anytime You want? If not then You have to start with where You are right now, otherwise Your just playing mind games! Say it all You want that this or that doesn't exist, no self, no mind, bla bla but how do You feel within Yourself right now, and if nothing exist, there is no I then who is responding, who is reading the posts, what is this forum?

Sadhguru basically explains it here, there is "Cosmic Will" the forces that allow physicality to exist, then there is Your Will, but he says to not live via the Will way, live via the Loving, Bliss way, to things because Your in Love with it, not because of Will necessarily, being Willing is helpful too though:)