Ishanga

@Squeekytoy Well good question. Its inevitable that I will use descernment of sorts in this level of awareness or conversation. In essence whether one is human or animal/plant/insect, its all life in the end, and that is the primary identity one should have, But in the context of this thread, if one stays in their instinctual mode which is sort of animal nature, then one is not living to their highest potential as a human, human nature is not instinctual but conscious and unbounded in many aspects, so for this conversation context is key, contextually I disguish between being a Human vs. Animal, and because of the potential consciousness wise have to distinguish and establish the differences and consequences associated with it...

Its only because of our technology that ppl today have become more powerful individually. I have more power in my hands within my life than my Grandfather did due to technology. Now a man like Trump or any of the previous/current Presidents has more power because with a simple order they can eliminate the earth as we know it, that wasn't possible 100yrs ago, and since America is the most powerful country military wise, then yes in that context the current president is the most powerful individual in the world, and on other levels too, economically and culturally the US leads in many ways the trends of the world, so there are a few ppl on that sort of level of influence and power..

The Idea of Innocence, of being naive to the horrors of the world, is innocence, which a child would have, since it is not aware of the horrors of the world unless it is being brought up in it for real. So only what You are aware of is reality for You, so Enlighenment is being Aware of everything, conscious that there are ppl suffering hell right now, and there are ppl living very happy lives right now, and that You can either suffer the ppl that are suffering and add to it, or make Yourself into what You want to see in the world, Innocence in the light of Knowing there are horrors going on right now, that is the basics of Enlightenment I would think, a child is not enlighened in their experience, as Leo said, they just don't know and are in a more natural state of Bliss than us adults hanging on to our baggage:)

@Squeekytoy Because there is a difference btwn Humans and Animals. Animals have a limit to their top level of existence, we in essence do not, we can live like Animals and even below animal nature in its worst form, or we can be god like, not talking about having powers or being a magician of sorts, but in experience of oneness and compassion and such things, it is our choice, which is the exercise of our inheirent Free Will capacity, animals do not have that capacity..All we know is that there is an Inside and Outside, we do not know what is up or down, left or right in reality, but we know what is inside and outside, if you do not know that then what do you know?

@vibv Yes agreed, our bodies and humanness is a technology of sorts, but tech is based off science or intelligence, we are a part of that intelligence/nature not separate from it. Yes here using tech again to text in a unnatural online forum, entertainment for sure:)

@Squeekytoy we can't control outside situations, but we can control how we experience life, if not then why are human beings here and what is the difference btwn us and animals, are we not the top of the evolutionary chain?

@Someone here Yes exactly. Desire is the life process in Human form. Once a Human acquires/accumulates something, and it produces an experience within them, that is slavery in a way, then they will want more. So if someone wins 10Million$$, they will be happy for a bit, then want more, this is one's unbounded nature coming forth as Desire, within Us there are two main forces, the force of Self Preservation, which builds walls and protective physical/mental barriers around us, then there is the force to be Unbounded and completely Free, no limits, no boundaries, no barriers, so if one tries this via a physical way, via drugs, sex, success/wealth/material creation, etc,,it will never end, and in the end cause suffering, as you cannot buy yourself, or success youself into Bliss, which in the end is what You are wanting from all these things Bliss. So Bliss is what our True nature is, find it consciously then it is yours whenever You want without external help of any kind, that is why we have Yoga and other Eastern practices to help us get to this point..

@vibv well our bodies are the best pharmacy on earth, all our bodies can create a multitude of chemistry beyond belief, so its just a matter of access isn't it? LSD is manufactured by us, its not really a natural born thing of nature, even ayahuasca is not a natural plant that is just grown via natures way, it has to be made up with organic ingredients and boiled and such by man...so there are things that man's intellect has created and then there is nature's way and that is what our bodies are in basic terms, as we are born with this potential already inside us..

@Squeekytoy I think the difference is only a matter of consciousness or unconsciousness, the so called "Awakened" if one truly is, then they are doing Actions consciously, the unAwakened are doing it compuslively, so the difference lies in this. Doing things Consciously means You can control it, you are not clinging to the outcome, you can stop the activity/action no problem at anytime, doing it compulsively means you cannot stop the action/activity at anytime and you rely on the outcome for pleasure or some other experience...

@vibv Yes, but we can also do what LSD creates for us (all its doing is exposing the potential that is within us already and always) without its use. Not saying that using it or anything else like this is bad or good, I'm also curious about it and would like to try it someday. The problem is really we are so badly unconscious and very conditioned that even when we strive to do it naturally it is very hard to get to that point of freely creating our own experience without any external help, but I still buy into the idea that we can do it naturally...

@vibv Whether its sex, music, videos, books, drugs, sunsets, outdoors, when You use outside 5 sense percetion to stimulate an inner experience, then that is being a slave to outer situations, its the way of this world, but all experience happens within You, no where else, so why not learn how to access this and create whatever experience it is that You want via your own free will?

@Someone here Whats happening is the persons hormones are hijacking their intellects, their ability to see other or experience other things and receive the same Bliss. In their action of jacking off, they feel a moment of Bliss, that is what they are after, its the same for the person looking at the sunset or mountain range or listening to some beautiful music, it the Bliss in the moment, but it comes then goes, this is what Happinesss is, moments of Bliss coming and going. We all have the potential to feel Bliss all the time, but it takes striving, if your hijacked via hormones or intellectual obsession with sex/porn, then it will take more striving. The Pain of Ignorance will soon come to them, either in this lifetime or another, then the striving will come to feel Bliss all the time:)

Interesting Discussion, and why is it important for a Spiritual Person to learn from this? Because in today’s world Intellect rules, so if Your intellect is peaked in curiosity then in the end You will really do something about the Spiritual Realm and how to access it within this lifetime, rather than going thru multiple lifetimes of probably lots of suffering to get there:) Things Discussed in the Video: -Time, did Time create Space and what happened before the Big Bang - Sadhguru describes via the Yogic Science how Creation happened, and how a Yogi can perceive these things without the use of expensive and hi Tech Equipment! - Cycles, everything physical has a cycle attached to it, if you can learn to ride the cycles Your Liberated, rather than getting drenched by them which causes suffering. - Creation of a New Science and Understanding of What Science is and encompasses. - Consciousness and where is it located! https://youtu.be/rwkAo6m87ms?si=VAXnkUtm8gGlYYKa

@Someone here Absolutely Correct! We know how to survive another day, our parents or society teaches us this, and now that technology has made today more comfortable and convenient than ever, we don't have to reinvent how to create fire, or build shelter or gather food, our intellects go for other things to accumulate, status, wealth, recognition, earthly book knowledge, success, on and on it goes, but anything that you accumulate is not you, it is yours to have or disregard, but what is you is nothing that You accumulate. So as You said we know really nothing, all we can do is have either Profound Experience of our inner nature or massive suffering or feel numb and indifferent..

They say the ones that know do not talk about it, that ones that don't know do talk about it, it many ways this is Truth, but in this day and age, with Intellect ruling, technology and expression forever on the rise, someone in the "know" has to talk about it otherwise the world will have no chance, but these ppl that talk about know they are the stupid ones, they admit it and then still talk about it and then share methods to get to the point where most ppl are in the know and don't talk about it. The "talking about" it is circus, we can't actually talk about enlightenement, we can only talk around it, Spirituality is about non physicality, knowing what You are and are not, in basic form we are not our bodies, minds, thinking patterns, ideologies, ego and so forth, body is here for us to have an experience of individuality, mind/intellect is here so we can stay alive another day and not get eaten by predators with superior physicality. What we are is before all of this, when in experience of that or touching of it, then life transforms...

With Individuality, which is what it means to be Human as a part of its makeup, then You have to have perception and experience as a part of it. In some states of Samadhi they say there are no "Qualities" to it, no experience, I would say in that state one is not in the experience of individuality and is in the state of Oneness, stay there too long and you will lose your individuality totally and not be here physically anymore. So there is Enlightenement like that, Moksha or total liberation, most normal human being when at the time of enlightenment will lose their embodiment therefore losing their individuality, only the ones (what one may call a "Master/Guru" stay behind when in Enlightened state of experience, because either they have mastery over the system or they consciously create Karma that allows them to stay on in physical form. So Perception and Experience are necessary for Enlightenment to be Experiential within someone while Embodied IMHO:)

If One is going via the Religious route, where they adapt and attach a belief system to their identity, one that says there is a supreme entity in another place or realm that loves You and created everything, and then You here on earth witnessing suffering everyday in Your own life and around the world as well, then Yeah of course we have to ask why a God like this would allow suffering to happen. I myself wonder how anyone could adopt a belief system with this set up and buy into it when the majority of the ppl on this planet are suffering on some level, some less some more. In fundamental terms it is us that is causing firstly our own internal suffering, and via that we spread it to others around us, those in power do the same but have much higher consequences, as every decision they make affects millions of people, so if they are experiencing suffering within themselves it is bound to spread globally. If one is on the Spiritual path, then all responsibility (your ability to respond) is your own, you realize you are causing your own suffering, pain is inevitable, but suffering is not, so its vital that to stop this trend of suffering and make ourselves into what we want to be, and learn to control how we want to experience life, joyfully or miserably, that is our free will in action...Start with Yourself, stop putting the responsibility on some God that doesn't exist, and make yourself into what you want to see in this world..