Ishanga

Yes maybe when it comes to Subjective Experience, I don't hear the tree crashing in the forest when I am not there, so there is no sound, but does a tree make a sound when I am not there, I would say yes, that is objectivity as we all know it.. The paradox is that all we really have is Subjectivity, all our experiences happen only within ourselves, when in deep sleep nothing exists for You, the world is no longer here subjectively, but it is still there objectively which may be considered an Intellectual concept of sorts, that is why its a paradox.. Which is why for myself I tend to go in the direction that we are individuals, with individual body/mind complexes, but with a Spirit/Soul/Life force within us that can be call Divinity, God, Intelligence that we can access if we strive for it, that is the top level of experience and perception and subtlety, but everything else exists too, plants, trees, cars, other ppl, it just on the grosser scale of physicality, bottom level of existence, an expression of Oneness and Possibility, where duality can be played out..

Its great You had an Awaken of sorts, that something changed in your perception.. No You are not the Only point of Consciousness, its ego telling You that You are! What's happening is you had an experience of connection, maybe Oneness/Completeness, and its subjective, but there are others, other ppl, places and things, forms in Consciousness and Existence. Just don't make it about You, make it about the experience, that it has enhanced You and given You a glimpse of something beyond Survival Instinct, individualism, or body/mind complex and identity, that is good, making it all about I am God, I am everything in a ego way is not so good. We are not the Body or Mind, we are Life, that is the Union between all of Us, but it doesn't mean that Body/Mind and everything else doesn't exist, it all exist, just not as we think it does:)

Sadhguru on "Doing Nothng" meditations, its a short, 30sec video... By doing nothing, that means its not sleeping, watching tv, thinking, or any activity on any level, its just sitting there and seeing where Your Mind goes, then realizing what it is really about.. https://youtube.com/shorts/RggF-A54aB0?si=BL4PoCupzA-D2CmJ

Then what are you typing on, and what is this we are communicating thru? I agree that there is really only a Subjective experience, all experience happens within You, but You are sensing/perceiving an outside world that exists as well, in unison, that is physical in nature, but has layers as well, its not static but dynamic, its just that with our normal 5 sense perception we cannot detect it, it doesn't serve the purpose of our survival to have such indepth and focused senses, we only need to know enough so we can survive another day...

Reality is not a construction in a pure absolute way, that is the problem with this sort of argument, its too absolutist,,There are layers to Existence, most ppl how they perceive life is very filtered due to conditioning, Karmic makeup, teachings, living in the past and so on, so many filters, so they are not perceiving reality with any Clarity, but once You truly awaken, the 3rd eye opens up, then You see with clarity, what is the Reality, discernment but no judgement, no using past references to make a conclusion, just pure Perception. We are not our Body or Mind, we are Life itself, that is embodied in physical body and mind complex to use while here this material planet universe in a dual realm, having to deal with it, and still become in union with Oneness and Completeness is the goal of Human Life...

Things do exist, but not as we perceive them too be, when in psychedelic states ppl are in experiences that go beyond the physical nature, but that does not mean the physical no longer exists, it exist but not in our perception when in those states, what you do not perceive does not exist for You, but ppl come down from those states when using psychedelics so that is the proof, ask Leo if his "health problems" don't exist???

People only want Love because its Blissful, same with God, Heaven, Jesus or Money, Except Bliss is not an Emotional State, its Energetic in nature, when Your Energies are high intensity, then You feel Bliss, and its a constant state... Love is about Emotions, its the sweetest Emotion, and its about You, but its associated with a relationship, or other, other person, place or thing, and it can come and go if your dependent on that other..What You want to be is Loving, this comes when Your Blissful of Your own Nature, to others You appear Loving. True Love is unconditional and not extracting from other in any way, very few know of this sort of Love.. I would say Devotion is a more powerful Emotion than Love... The only thing that trumps Bliss is Ecstasy, but with Ecstasy you cannot function very well, work or family wise, you won't care about any of that, so its not safe in some environments to be in Ecstasy all the time, if it comes natural or thru sadhana you could lose hold of the body in this state and merge with Oneness, lose all individuality, Mahasamadhi per say!!

The thing about living in today's world is that most everything can be justified and explained in logical terms, ppl are dying today in wars based on this sort of things, justifications that make things alright, but are they? Ppl are dying as well from lack of food, in generations that come after we are long gone it will be said that we let ppl die, not because there was a shortage of food, we have plenty of that, or a lack of means to get it to them, its because there is no Profit in feeding everyone on the planet, if that is okay with the powers that be then so be it, but consequence come sooner or later, so its the same with stuff like this, believe it all you want, consequences will come, good or bad doesn't matter, if you can Joyfully deal with those consequences then do what You like:)

Okay so its by a sort of intuition that Your making that claim...I would agree, not by intuition but by the general theology that pervades most of the posts here, too many believe that no materialism exists, that everything is "imaginary" and that I am God, God is wrong wording to use imo, saying I am everything, everything is me is more appropriate Yes I did some research on You, you have allot of followers and been on the forum for a long time, saw some good bookmarks on your profile too, so you've done your research and had some realization, all is good:)

Also methods are a good thing, not egoic as I have read some spiritual teachers say they are, the Top Level down ppl do allot as well, but not everyone has the same karmic make up or realization, they need method to wipe the slate clean per say so realization can happen as it does for the Top Down Level ppl...

@Someone here I think using the word "Imaginary" to describe everything that is added to our essential nature is not the right word to use, unless you are for certain saying our bodies and minds and everything physical on this planet and universe actually does not exist, but you also said these things exist as appearances, appearances in what? How can something appear if nothing, or no individuality exists? How can Oneness and that realm of no thing no creation experience anything, and how can imagination come into existence in that sort of place... I would say most everything else that is beyond our essence is maya or illusionary, meaning it exists but not as we think or perceive it too be, in simple terms most ppl take most everything for granted, but if the atmosphere changed and O2 was no longer available for us to breath then physical death is imminent, then You will realize how important O2 is, this sort of thing...

All is good, learning and hearing from one another is a good way to be rather than war and all out nuts fighting eh:) I think all this intellectual Top Level Down Methodology (what I label as a hierarchy in Spiritual Teachings or Traditions, Ramana Maharshi for eg is Top Level down sort of way, where there is no method needed, just realization of Truth and Reality, whereas Yoga is Bottom Up, You don't think these things, you think where You are starting right now, I want to be Peaceful, get that as an everyday experience then go from there) can lead most today on a path of endless thinking and intellectualizing, no one, or very few individuals know what is the reality of this sort of thing, and since we are mostly conditioned to the awareness level of our intellects, thinking this is intelligence when it isn't, it can lead us down roads we really don't want to travel:) Here on this forum we are talking around Reality, Spirituality and Enlightenment and such things, not directly about it, as it is not possible to put these things on logical terms which communication is based off of... These things have to be personally experienced imo...

There's both, No Thing and Some Thing, No Thing (Shiva) is non physicality, it is an invisible intelligence per say, words can't describe, if it does then it becomes Some Thing, so using words limits our ability to describe the indescribable.. from there, this grand intelligence, subtlety is born, Shiva is No Thing, Shakti is that No Thing in motion, that is the start of Subtle creation, not even atoms yet, but it goes on from there, I'm not a scientist, but there is something there before the Big Bang, then Creation happens, then it goes on to what we have today, tons of creation, tons of physicality but lots of space inbetween (there is more empty space or akasha in an atom than any particle or wave).. So in creation it goes from Subtle to Grossness, what most ppl think they are, Body/Mind complex is the Grossest aspect of Creation, along with Trees, Animals, Amoeba etc etc....In fundamental terms we are not our Body or Mind, all of that is accumulated/gathered stuffs, what we are in more fundamental, call it Life, upon which body and mind rest as tools we can use, but in embodied physical form in a dual physical world, and we have the ability to realize our true nature, we call it Enlightenment... People here are into calling all of this Imaginary or Illusion/Maya, Maya does not mean something does not exist, it means it exist but not as we are perceiving or experiencing it, when Your Enlightened You experience it at a higher level of intensity and clarity, it blows you away, but if You stay in that state, watching a bubble float in the air marvelling at it, you won't live very long as the tiger approaches you to eat you alive!!

This is the problem when You make Spirituality a thing to Study, it leads to all sorts of insanity, craziness, theory creation, all of which leads you to the other side of Truth and Reality.. Spirituality is all about Reality and Truth, not thinking about it, studying it, theorizing it to death as we do with everything in our society and world, we think it too Death, using Intellect, which is a cutting tools that separates everything, this doesn't work.. Use Awareness, that is a combining and unionizing tool, it brings things together which is what we want when we say we are on a Spiritual path... Nothing exists but here we are typing on something on an imaginary internet forum, created by You who started this thread that doesn't exist, posting video's ppl who don't exist to prove nothing exists....its absolutely Nuts!!!

Yes, exactly, most no one is having Original Thoughts, thoughts are recycled memory, and Your Dreams of Success and Fortune are Rose colored recycled experiences from the past, spiced up stuff, but it all is past/memory based and none of that exists, Only the Present Moment exists, this is the problem with gained knowledge from other People, Books, Video's, and such, in the end its all just a story for You, it may be Truth for them, but it isn't Truth until You actually Experience it for Yourself!!

Sadhguru advocates creating a stable ground upon which one can build up on, first you establish Peace within, acceptance of Now whatever the situation maybe(no stress response method), Respond to Now rather than react (gain Free Will access), Live Now, use past/memory to become wise, future/imagination to allow creative force to flow higher.. and that from there You will sooner or later be in a constant state of Bliss, and have access to Ecstatic states at will, but you don't want to live and be in Ecstasy for too long otherwise You won't function well in society and lose your responsibility to family, work and such things, but once inawhile, once a day for 20min be Ecstatic and let it flow through you, its great for health and increasing intelligence and creative forces...this can only be done once mastery of the human system is achieved via Yoga methodology, not thru psychedelics since you lose a sense of control and they wear off after awhile...

I've never taken any serious psychedelics, but want to someday and have done a ton of research, and I would assume this would be the case, that a personality or realization and entanglement with it comes after the trip is over, there is the normal "You", going to work, studying in school, having relationships, things go your way, things don't go your way (which is most of the time), and the psychedelic "You" which realizes or experiences a sense of Godliness or Infinity, Joy/Bliss and Completeness...If not integrated correctly, or supplemented with a serious Spiritual Practices of sorts one for sure could have Schizophrenic episodes... Interesting..

@puporing Hi Just curious, from reading what people post and their interactions, what is it specifically that allows You to claim that You are of a higher Consciousness than the others, serious question not judging You, just curious as to what the indicating factor/s are:) Thanks...

Suffering only happens in two place, in Body and Mind, today mostly in Mind. Pain is good for the Body, if we had no pain experience, ppl would be chopping up their bodies in the name of fashion lol... Mind can feel pain, disappointment, frustration, bitterness, etc but suffering is constant pain over a period of time, mostly its about clinging to the past, but past does not exist, only Memory exists, and ppl are never in the Now moment presence, they are trapped in the Mind which is always either past/memory or future/imagination orientated, but in all reality we are neither our Body or Mind, both of those are accumulated/gathered things, Body via Food we eat, Mind via the 5 senses input data and our intellect gathering up all that data to figure out how to live another day.. We are more fundamental than that, call if Life, we are that, that is beyond Suffering, Pain, and such things, when You get intouch with that, Suffering will no longer be possible for you unless you want to experience it..Spirituality is all about get to this point..

Yes I can agree with that. I think the whole process of Spiritual Development, Yoga, Buddhism and Taoism etc,, it is not there to make You Enlightened, its just washing away all the crap, which is Ego, Karma, Unhealthy Thoughts and Ideologies and such, when that happens then Enlightenment is Realized, its just how to do that in this day and age where Intellect, Thinking, Ideology/Concepts rule!!

Yes, but can You Realize it? If not then one will need a method, the problem with looking at certain individuals, like Papaji or Ramana M, is that their individual karmic make up may have made them more easily accessible to Enlightenment.. They are Top Down Individuals/Teaching Method, they say just Realize it, no methods needed but can one Realize in the Now? The other way is too start where You are at, forget Enlightenment, God, Infinity and such grandiose concepts, just be Peaceful of Your Own nature every moment of every day, don't be an emotional slave to every situation that happens in your life, from that then Life opens up and more possibility/potential happens, to do this there are many methods to allow Peace to be Your natural state of Experience....

Yes for sure..Beingness is just being Aware intensely that Now is everything (past/memory/wisdom not wounded.. future/imagination/creating what we want, we just use), How I respond to it makes all the difference, and that when I don't Accept what is as Inevitable, then resistance/stress comes, in that sort of Experience then Ease is Your inner state, Harmony happens, Peace is normal, from that things get Intensified and other possibilities arise, Enlightenment comes then sooner or later... I think psychedelics are good at a certain stage, doing them at a beginning stage without any prep work or sadhana in place, is not so safe, but after allot of prep work and sadhana I think they can help one along for sure...

We are embodied Beings, we have a Body/Mind complex to use as tools, while here embodied on this material planet and universe, but Body/Mind is not what we are, what we are is Life (some call this Soul, God, Intelligence, Brahman, etc...), so Enlightenment is when One Individual is in Realization of this, internally they are in the Experience of Oneness, Completeness, Bliss, Consciousness, all these dumb words/labels, but still are here on this planet as Undercover Yogi's:) Papji is great, but no method offered, just talking...

Yes thinking "I want to be Like God" is egoic, since God is just a concept, something learned via the culture You are brought up in, in some places of the world there is no concept of God so they don't aspire to be that...but wanting to Be More than what You are right now, this is Desiring Process, Desire is Life, wanting to be more than what You are right now is built into us, it makes us Strive.. But Awareness/Consciousness has to be heightened along with this Desiring Process, otherwise we have what we have today, ppl in search of happiness, of success, of more ppl, places and things but burning up the planet to do so and still not feeling fulfilled or happy in any significant or real way.. Wanting to be at our highest potential and possibility is just what it means to be Human, its our Beingness, first establish that, BE-->DO-->then Have, then there is no problems arising, you have fulfilment and are helping others along the way to do the same..

Are You Peaceful of Your own nature, every moment of everyday? If not work on that, then go from there, This sort of thing is real, infinity is not real, God is not real, its just concepts implanted in our heads, just be Peaceful of Your own nature every moment, then go from there.. Talking, arguing about things like Infinity and God get you further away from Truth and Reality, because You get too trapped in conceptualizing, intellect, and thinking process, it also engages Your ego, false identities and such things...Infinity cannot be explained, even our concept that the universe is 13.5 billion years old (very large but finite) is not imaginable or understandable by our minds, intellect, current ways of thinking, so never mind infinity and so called God...