kenway

In any event, you still don't get it. Ontologically speaking you will experience the experience of all the Jews and you will experience the experience of all the Palestinians. That should be your guiding motivator.

No. Providing it was done carefully and intelligently such protections would be a fundamental aspect of the protocol - that is to say embedded into the (principal-led) constitution by default, as well as policed by a more effective rebooted International legal system. You're thinking from a position of fear and prejudice. Besides, I don't think there is much alternative.

Very informative discussion from a UN aid worker who has just returned from Gaza.

I support a one-state solution shared by both Jews and Arabs predicated on a constitution defined by principles, rather than the current defacto ethnostate. Or in other words, a return to the borders prior to 1948, but under an Internationally policed mandate rather than a British mandate. (aka International Israel.) Ideally I would like to see a total reboot of the United Nations, and a process of dezionification similar to the denazification process that occurred in Germany post 1945. That's kind of a strawman. But in any case, cooperation between the Zionists and Nazis is well documented. One such example is the Haavara Agreement:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement That's simply not true. That is quite literally false. The overwhelming majority of Holocaust survivors chose destinations other than Israel/Palestine. (e.g the United States). I recommend you watch this. @Lila9

Footage from a few hours ago. There's no food. People are starving. Most of the people you see in this video will be dead within the next two weeks. That's 1.9 million people.

@Nivsch Because Israel is an artificially created ethnostate. Its fundamental constitution is predicated around ethnicity, as opposed to (for example) Europe or the United States, whose constitution revolves around principles, rather than ethnicity. It does not have the maturity or ability to absorb the majority of the indigenous population - the non-Jewish Palestinians - into its locality, without a complex of occupation. It would be like the United States saying, we don’t want African-Americans to be the dominant racial group in this country, so we’re going to round them all up into special territories, that we can pretend is a separate country, so as to deny them the democratic vote that would inevitably see them vote for an infinite number of African-American governments for the rest of the countries history. Thats Nazism. You add in a Netanyahu’s far-right government on top of that, various factions of ultrazionism, various factions of religious zionism (that are basically Jewish supremacists), and of course, this current genocide / ethnic cleansing / second Nakbar, and its suddenly no longer theoretical Nazism… it’s actual full blown practical Nazism.

It's fine. Thankyou for replying and I appreciate your time. How is this video biased against the Israeli state? Not a single person in this video advocated against Israel. Irrelevant. I asked to provide commentary on the nature of the video, not the sect itself. The sect itself barely featured in the video. It was actually the Zionists that were cooperating with the Nazis. Not only did Nazism legitimise Theodore Herz's 1896 document "The Jewish State' it also served as a sufficiently "scary event" to force the Jews out of Europe down into Palestine where the Zionists wanted and needed them. On this point, I'm just going to say that you're brainwashed. Sorry, but it would take far too long to unpack. That's fine and I don't deny that Israel is beautiful. Maybe you could post such videos yourself if you can be sure that it's not propaganda? Again, who in the video that I posted is for Israel's destruction? Please provide timestamps. Consider this a credibility test. What "individuals do I endorse that have the intention of genociding Israelis"? Show me the individuals and let me know where I endorsed them. Where? How? What why who? Israel and Hamas are both modern day Nazis. And seeing as you're talking about Nazis by the way:- I used to be a fully paid member of various anti-Nazi organisations for about 5 years. My family fought actual Nazis in World War 2. My great great great great grandmother was Ashkenazi Jewish. The only reason I’m not Jewish today is because my aforementioned grandmother (for reasons unknown) abandoned her new born daughter onto the steps of a Christian church. My attitude to Israel is spawn from that same anti-Nazi spirit that I've always held. Your problem is that you are extraordinarily brainwashed, and there's no obvious way of reversing that. @Lila9

Okay that's fine. Have a good night.

@Nivsch The irony is that I found every person in that video to be fundamentally beautiful in some way or another. You complain about not showing regular Israelis. But if by “regular Israelis” you mean people like yourself, then I can only conclude that “regular Israelis” are total fucking assholes. I’ll take my chances with the “weirdos” thanks. @Happy Lizard Good synopsis. And thank-you for replying I appreciate your time.

FOR ANYONE IN THIS THREAD Would anyone active in this thread please adjudicate on whether the video I posted above was neutral or biased in any way? As an additional, please could you pass commentary on whether you feel I posted in good or bad faith. Thankyou.

Dude you are so bad faith, and frankly a little bit paranoid. If you cannot see that I posted that video in good faith then you are beyond redemption. What am I doing that is supposed to be "sophisticated?" You're looking for agency and propaganda where there is none, which I think is exactly what @Danioover9000 was referring to when talking about the polarised mindset. It's precisely the desire to escape the polarized mindset that I thought the video would be interesting to everyone in this thread, remain topical, but be free from the typical biases that this thread has gotten used to. Did you even watch the video? (again).

I found this really fascinating. Pretty neutral too, so no propaganda here. Maybe @Leo Gura might enjoy too.

"The lesson of the Holocaust, is not that you should defend Israel when it is committing atrocities, but rather that one should stand against atrocities regardless of who commits them, and who endures them." - Riyad Mansour

Which (to me) invokes a deeper anxiety. Aside the already escalating anxiety of a broader regional war, it would be uncomfortably convenient for a 9/11 type attack to take place somewhere on western soil right now, fitting into the narrative as: "Well this is obviously revenge for the genocide." In that instance, not only would the case for peace be wiped from the collective consciousness (amid the chaos and cacophony of all that followed), it would also mean that anyone who ever stood up for the Palestinians would be tarnished as though they were the terrorists themselves.

Generally if the person in question knows that you're getting sexual gratification from something and is consensually fine with that, then that is ethical. But if the person doesn't know that you're getting gratification from something (but is instrumental to the fact regardless) then that would be a red line, and a slippery slope into creepsville. So for example, deliberately provoking a girl into kicking you in the balls but without her realising it's part of a broader kink that you have, would be unethical. Paying a prostitute to kick you in the balls however is fine. But I still recommend you find yourself a proper Domme...

But you're not doing that though. You're defaming the entire BDSM community and kink-shaming people based on your own subjective negative experiences. How are you in a position (for example) to talk about "often" and "always". The majority of BDSM is the creative and artistic equivalent of psychonautica. Established protagonists are literally unexploitable - usually much stronger than classic alpha-males types, simply because where classic alpha-male types run around like chickens afraid of everything from death to humiliation, to rejection, the submissive says no... bring me more of that shit. Fill my cup until it overfloweth. Humiliate me. Crucify me. Exterminate me. Turn on the gas muthafucka. o7 That's not exploitation. That's the creative curiosity and inner strength to explore the shadow. Yes it is. Because even though you don't realise it yet, there's a strong possibility that you're discovering fundamental elements to your sexuality that cannot be put into words.

@zazen Finkelstein talking about the Israeli defense now. Quote: "South Africa concentrated on the facts. Israel concentrated on the law."

Yep I noticed that. One of the greatest and most frustrating dimensions about Israel/Palestine is the manner in which "language" and "facts" get so lost in overloaded implication - it's practically impossible to unpack in realtime. Words like "terrorist" and "ceasefire" go through the filters of the subconscious completely unchecked, simply because it is just far too fatiguing to defend and reconfigure back into reality each time such words are mentioned. This is despite the understanding, that really, words like "terrorist" are too simplistic for purpose, and often inaccurate, while words like "ceasefire" imply a war of equal-footedness, rather than a slaughter of merciless disproportion. The "hospital incident" (singular) referenced because of its media fanfare, is of course just one of many hospital destructions. The narrative that Israel didn't bomb the hospital is of course patently absurd. There's no way Hamas rockets could have created the damage that was achieved there. Not only that, acoustic analysis of the missile strikes fingerprint the destructions back to the type of missiles that Israel was using. From there it's almost a game of sudoku: If you know Israel is lying about the hospital destruction, then the "intelligence wiretaps" pertaining to Palestinian complicity (reported by the media) have to be fake. But all of this is lost, and will remain lost, due to the tragic fatigue of having to labour these points each time that these situations are raised.

That's simply not the way it works. If anything, it's the total opposite of that. I'm talking about people who don't understand what hatred or self-hatred feels like, and so want to play with such energies because they have no experience in them. But beyond that, sexuality is about power dynamics. Ultimately, even the most vanilla of sexualities comes down to assertiveness vs vulnerability, dominance vs submission. All that remains is the manner in how these things manifest. Masculine dominance typically manifests as violence and the threat of violence. Female dominance (in a sexual sense) typically manifests as humiliation, financial manipulation and sexual rejection. It's just the way the modern world makes sense and plays around with primitive energies. What are you thoughts about gay people, by the way? In any event, you're being very very subjective and coloring theories about such things from your own negative experiences.... which given your proclaimed redemption is somewhat ironic, especially as it leaves a bitter taste in this thread, making people feel shitty about the things that they like.

With respect, you're being a little bit militantly judgemental about something that you don't really understand. Not everyone in this world has trauma. For some people its just art. Should people with a history of trauma or other psychological / spiritual issues engage in such things? Possibly not. But for everyone else it's just another theatrical exposition on a Shakespearean stage between the Montagues and Capulets.

Currently watching Finkelstein's latest take that was broadcast last night post the South African arguments. I'd also be interested in hearing his take on the Israeli defense, if for no other reason than to help decode it. There were moments during Israels defense when I literally had no idea what they were talking about. Great observation.

On a side note, it's now clear that Netanyahu's 10th January address was deliberately pushed out at the last minute in order to be utilised by the defense as evidence of intent - that is to say that Netanyahu's intent is not genocide. I can imagine a scenario where they just pushed him in front of the cameras: "Quick just say these words." The question is does that count, if it's a blatant strategic statement made mostly after the fact, especially when Netanyahu has also deleted tweets that signal intentions in contrast to that.

@zazen 1 hour in and this is almost complete. I think I'm missing Promised Land, Hitler and Blood Libel.

2nd Session at the Hague live now on UN TV - Israel's defense https://webtv.un.org/en/asset/k1c/k1c10lsjoq