Salaam

No problem. I guess a clearer answer to your question would be my energy "ends" and the world's "begins" in the zone upon which the edges of their different patterns interact and change in response to each other. It's like... you have a long piece of rope and in one section of the rope you have an alpine butterfly knot and in another section you have a farmers loop. Even though they are made out of the same stuff and a part of the same length of rope they have difference, in their shape, position, and patterning. And because of that difference they can now interact in different ways and again change in shape when they interact with each other. Maybe looping around each other to form a doubly reinforced scaffold knot that also effects other parts of the rope, because you've now formed a larger loop by connecting these two sections of the same stuff together. That's kind of how energy works, but across a multitude of different dynamics, dimensions, and inter-relations. So, take that same rope analogy and then magnetize the rope and then attribute different chemistries and characteristics that affect attraction and repulsion and pressure and solidity and permeability and conductivity all based on each section of the ropes shape, position, and patterning. Each bump, each ridge, of difference creates a slightly nuanced contrast in relation to each other. Much like skin differentiations determine sensitivity on the human body (the most sensitive places on a human are the places with the most nuance, like the vagina for instance or the tongue which are filled with bumps and ridges, each one slightly different and providing contrast between each other, to create a synergy for greater sensitivity and expressions of sensation). So, the way I see it, energy is not about complete separation, but instead how different patterns and shapes interact and how that interaction can be discovered and applied throughout life. There are forces that generate depending on these different characteristics and the contrast of their interactions create cascades that directly impact our quality of existence. Some people may just want to say well it's all rope and be done with it, but me, I make the rope dance and form shapes and interactions beyond anything I've ever dreamed possible. And others in their own way do the same, like that surgeon who learned the intricate patterns of the human hand, in order to repair yours and help you regain the form and function of the unique pattern that is a part of you It's amazing really, the way the universe works. I see it's foundations nested in every single facet of existence. The world teaches me, my body teaches me about it constantly, releasing new understandings and new challenges that build and synergize with each other, creating a domino effect of change inside me. It's fucking brutal sometimes, but also beautiful.

Cool, thanks for staying so civil amid the differences we may or may not be expressing As to your question, first I would differentiate what you mean by end and begin. I personally don't believe in "hard" endings and beginnings, whereby it is believed that there is nothing before a beginning or after an ending. I believe in "soft" endings and beginnings which are transitions from one change to another via shifts in the orientation of energetic patterns across multiple levels, layers, and fields. Shifts in position, rather than absolute creation or destruction. Second, I ascribe to superposition, where things can be overlapped or superimposed on top of each other and interact while still maintaining distinction. We can have difference or distinction without separation and further there are degrees of separation that also overlap and interact. A real life example would be a metal and a magnet, held close but apart. On one level they are separated with a physical distance between them, but on the field level, they are very much connected and interacting as is shown by the magnetic pull bringing them to snap and attach together. So with that said, I see my energy as a distinct, but connected part of the energetic mixture. I have localized emanations and the world has localized emanations that mix and interplay depending on a specific context. Some emanations have greater permeability and range then others and some orientations of energy have greater solidity, creating difference and greater potentiality via their interaction. Basically, in my view the initial frame of your question, has flaws in it's dynamics and flexibility that kind of "choke" you out of finding a solution that is both universal and specific without conflict (it's a very common flaw in much of humanities so called paradoxes). And that means that as humans we have to develop our inner capacities to be able to approach these questions with evolved forms of sensitivity and differentiation (to find subtle nuance), multi-dimensionality (so we are considering all the different layers and levels and fields), traction or self-restraint (so we can handle the tension of our question without immediately snapping and attaching to a limited conclusion), and a bunch of other things that would take longer to write out.

You know what I've found to be most helpful, dynamic, and real when it comes to the concept of "best"? It's the concept of the goldilocks zone or life zone. The zone that has the degree and level of synergy to best support the particular context of human life and the planet earth. Personally, I take that concept of the goldilocks zone and apply it to my own body, creating a dynamic, ever-changing, tensile, but stable eco-system of synergy and harmony within myself that best supports and constructs the life I want.

Okay, if we want to get right down to the bottom, let's just cut to the chase in how this discussion or whatever will probably evolve. I've had it enough times on here with people to somewhat narrate the usual steps. It's most likely going to end up being we agree to disagree if it stays civil, or I'll somehow piss you off with the way I state things and it'll devolve and completely derail the thread I "believe" the world exists beyond the observations of my mind, that there are actions you have to take, nuance you have to sense, and resistance you have to face to adapt, change, create synergy, gain influence and then exert influence. Just sitting there, believing whatever, thinking everything is nothing or an illusion, can impact your rapport with the world or how you relate to it, but it does little beyond that. We have to be more physical, active, and involve our senses as well as our mind in order to spur change within us and outside us. Maybe you "believe" differently and will then say something like well prove it in some absolute sense. And then I'll say, static absolutes violate dynamic integrity via the uncertainty principle and also add that humans are overly attached to that paradigm because of an emotional extremism and rigidity of thought on an electromagnetic level (a mental tensile resiliency most people lack). All the proof I personally need is in it's consistent repeat-ability, stability, patterning, and the strength of change I create and success I enjoy by adapting and having the very tools to form and become whatever the hell I want in ways most of the world doesn't seem to have the same access to. Basically, I've had way too much success and growth and experience validating my approach and view to give any credence to the philosophy of nothingness or the primacy of consciousness or whatever you want to call it. Most people on here are coming from a place of scarcity and the consciousness primacy stuff sounds great to them, compared to what they currently have, but I've got way too much personal abundance to find such a position attractive. I mean it's not like I'm just dismissing it out of hand. I've investigated it, but have out-grown it years ago, and moved on to even deeper and more real things (in my estimation and deep experience).

@Nahm I've tried shrooms, didn't like them. Drug wise ecstasy was much better, don't need either of them now, because I can naturally create euphoria states that are much more pleasurable and healthier. So be honest, when that actually happened at 13 did you feel relief, gratitude, appreciation when you gained full functioning of that hand? Do you recognize that it was the surgeon who put all that time and effort understanding the nuances specific to human biology that afforded you the regaining of that functioning? You didn't just take some mushrooms or change your beliefs and poof your hand was back to what it was. It is not all "beliefs". Objective reality does exist and it has an impact on what you can and cannot do and what you can and cannot access. "Beliefs" themselves are internalization's chemically coded with their own chemistry, their own degrees of attraction and repulsion and their degrees of resistance and acceptance. If your internal senses were sensitive enough and your brain processing was fast enough you would be able to feel and track those internalizations in real-time across multiple sub-conscious layers mapping out their inter-relations (that's how I have this information). And no, not all mystics, scientists, etc. are saying nothing is there. In fact, what they say is that emptiness isn't there. Voids, vacuums, etc. are not actually empty. They are filled with all kinds of different fields, fields we can tangibly feel and use for our development if we're sensitive enough and can handle the connective tension.

@Nahm I bet if someone took a hammer to your hands and broke your bones you'd feel different. And then if a doctor could reconstruct those very same bones so you could write and work and provide for your family you'd feel different. The point being, arm-chair philosophy and emotional platitudes provide jack shit in benefit when it comes to dealing with real things in the real world.

Contradictory information, usually means that there is a dynamic in play that requires balancing and nuance. Without that balance and nuance, then things appear to contradict or swing from one extreme to another. For both health and personal development (which of course includes health) you have to understand the context and application of each particular instance. That's why this blind "accept everything", "everything is an illusion", no nuance, extremist bullshit is so limited and unhelpful in real life. You have to have nuance and specificity, so you understand context, and the right balancing action to apply. It's not that things like saturated fats or fear are evil. It's about when and where to apply them and direct them so they are constructive and healthy when present.

@Steph1988 I get what you're saying there are dissonances that can sometimes come into play when entering different flow-states and emotional landscapes that one isn't accustomed to. Depending on the flavor and intensity of dissonance it can be enough to keep a person from sustaining that state or even kick them out at on-set, generating a kind of flinch/rejection response. But, it seems yours is relatively mild and the pleasure/satisfaction is hopefully automatic enough to kind of lock it in place for you as it naturally expresses itself. As for your final question, yes it's definitely a meaningful step, a foundational shift that allows for a wider range of capability. A person is limited from a lot of experiences, emotional ranges, and capabilities if they are overly enmeshed with their mind, in comparison to their senses (especially when it comes to physical expressions of intent). Long-term exposure to this status will have physical affects on the shape of our brain and how we're wired, which will dictate the cycle or pattern of our thoughts and feelings and consequently the choices we make and things we do with our lives. Luckily, we can shift this position over time and bring ourselves back into a balance of activity between both sides. For instance, you mentioned that you tested out as INTJ, and 10 years ago I most likely would have tested out similarly, but I took a quick test this morning and I showed to be ENFP-A. I don't put too much stock into that label, because I am still just as able to be analytical and systems-based as before, but now I also have access and capability with the other side of the spectrum. I have a best of both worlds or all worlds, because of taking the time to develop that balance and synergy with both sides. That's a key difference from just being some guy who was always more sensing based, as opposed to thinking, trying to tell others to be more involved with their bodies. (@Joseph Maynor I believe the two paragraphs above touch on that concern of constant negative talk. With the solution being long-term change creating a physical shift in the wiring and composition of your brain and other parts of your body)

Personally, I find that kind of discourse from so-called gurus to be offensive to my sense of balance and reality. Resistance is just as much a part of life as acceptance. A person is incomplete and incapable if they ignore one over the other in either case. If you have an immune system your body practices resistance. If you have a system for internalization, your body practices acceptance. I think it's safe to say nearly or possibly every single thing in existence practices both, or at the very least every complex system does. -Attraction, acceptance, trust, internalization -Repulsion, resistance, doubt, rejection Both sides are necessary to life. And both sides over-lap and feed into each other. You ever wonder why people on here, do the whole non-acceptance thing, get blissed out, and then a month later come back complaining that they have no motivation for anything? It's because motivation involves and requires a quality of pressure, whether positive or negative. And pressure requires resistance and tension, whether positive or negative. You ever play video games with god mode on? I bet once the novelty fades you don't find it as fun or stimulating as it was when you played without it. Why? Because there is no more resistance, no risk, you're invulnerable. Which makes the struggle lose meaning, as you are no longer stretching your capacities or testing yourself to survive. Or to look at it another way. Do you know how boring it would be to deadlift 135lbs every workout after lifting 535 lbs? It's so easy it means nothing. It's just warm-up weight and isn't going to do anything for growth. There is no stretching of our capacities, no new territory outside of our comfort zone with that kind of weight.

@Steph1988 If left to my own devices I'm like 60%-70% Sensing and 30-40% Thinking. Those ratios change if I'm at work, which is more like 50/50 or 60/40 towards thinking. I don't have that monkey-mind, constant chatter thing most people have. Years ago that changed and it felt like the actual volume of my thoughts turned down, so what mental talk I do have comes as a faint, far-away whisper that's a lot less obtrusive. Plus, I feel electromagnetism at all times on top of normal sensations so I'm rarely as fully immersed/enmeshed within thought as I used to be. I prefer this way of living to the other way, because you waste less time with stories about why things may be a certain way and the circular thinking that comes from it. It makes you more active and focused on the physical manifestations that deal with creating change in life. You know where the firewalls are or adaption points that people mentally shy away from because of their tension and stress and just face them. And you understand that things like creative thoughts, eureka moments, and realizations are actually the verbalization or story behind positive bodily shifts. So you just skip all the searching and go straight to creating different shifts and let your brain sort and narrate it out as needed in the background. I guess you could say that my brain is not the dominant seat of my consciousness. It shares that seat equally with my instincts, senses, intuition, etc.

What is the balance for you in an average day? How much of your day is spent lost in thought, compared to consciously engaging with your 21 senses? Feeling the twisting currents of the air, smelling the heat of summer, the taste of your saliva, the sound of your breathing, seeing colors, experiencing the different gradients of pressure in our bodies, the different levels of magnetism, body positioning, thirst, hunger... How much you exercise and consciously engage with your senses, determines the strength of connection you have to them versus thought. I'm not saying one or the other is better, I'm saying a balance and constructive synergy between them is better.

Maybe the problem isn't so much in the finding of pleasure through activities, but that you're dealing with something that is blocking you inside or weighing on you inside, that is keeping you from taking pleasure in life?

Sure man and good luck, I hope you resolve it in the way that you wish Personally, I don't see feeling it fully as surrendering to it. Or, to put it another way, I don't feel it fully with those submissive connotations. Instead I see feeling it fully as facing it and communicating with the energy or experience. If it's something I want to internalize, I trust it, I don't surrender to it. For things I don't want to internalize and have as a deeper part of me, I feel and observe it, without getting enmeshed in it. Figuring out how to counterbalance it's movements, and adapt and change so my chemistry pulls healthier patterns of energy to my reality. Certain things defeat a person by getting enmeshed with them. They drain you and rob you off the capacity to fight them, from within the space. It's like Sun Tzu's the art of war. Victory is more likely to go to the man who chooses his battleground. Fighting, resistance, and rejection are as much a part of life as communication, acceptance, and trust. Life is both sides and only the sheltered and naive think life can be changed without both.

Be careful and make sure your getting advice from people who have actually dealt with depression and aren't spouting some spiritual bandwagon nonsense of blindly accepting and surrendering to everything. I come from a family with a genetic predisposition for depression and had it very bad for a long while, but I've since outgrown it and haven't felt depression in years. I did it without drugs and therapy by NOT accepting and surrendering to the comfort depression tries to hustle you with. I saw depression as a thing inside me that I could face and disarm, piece by piece, regaining myself and my natural, balanced palette of feelings and motivations. Like an opponent in a boxing ring, I watched how it moved and learned it's patterns and combos it used to keep me in place. How it would hit me with comfort, and then follow-up with despair. The comfort of surrender, the comfort of isolation, the comfort of dwelling in the thought process of "nothing matters", or "what's the point", the comfort of immobility and doing nothing while feeling this negativity and painful pit of emptiness in the pit of my stomach... I chose tension and positive stress, rather then comfort, which derailed the draining in pressure that coincides with a draining in motivation, that paves the way for depression to encroach and internalize deeper within us. If it felt harder to go outside, then stay alone, I went out and spent time with people who energized me. If I felt like nothing mattered, I invested myself and made it matter by the giving of my effort. I chose the harder, more constructive choice, over and over again that allowed me to build the capacities I needed to directly counter depression and change me as a person. Now, I don't even have the trains of thought anymore that lead to and bind with the emotional cascades of depression. I'm too strong, too passionate and motivated, too energized and capable to be beat by it anymore. And I say that as a person who deals with even more challenging and stressful things now, then I ever did before. I hope this helps. If you have any questions or need more details please let me know.

In a very real way it is the people themselves who determine and create the space that will connect and fit in with your life. No matter how much we may wish, expect, or idealize otherwise, they can go no farther than their behavior and way of relating permits. A man who begot you, can never be the father you want if he himself can't treat you in a way that resonates within you the colors of connection that would come with a father. Brother's won't be brothers, no matter how much you may wish and no matter how much society or blood tells you if he doesn't treat you in a way that spurs the feelings of brotherly kinship. In that same vein, people won't get you or connect with you in the fullness of who you are if their behavior and ways of relating can't match and arouse that fullness of color. These arousings, these washes of different flavors of connection and kinship are like "tendrils" or "roots" that connect us to each other in different degrees, but what people may not realize is that these very roots themselves are fragile, sacred, and in need of nurturing and protection. To be lonely is painful, to ache for your "roots" to connect in fullness with another. But, to have been so lonely for so long, so denied of connection that your roots wither and retract deep inside you is a danger worse than pain alone can present. This event is the very bottom of the barrel that is emotional withdrawal and for this event to be your norm, is a deep, dangerous tragedy I wish for no single soul to feel. Yet, it is a norm I see with more and more prevalence everyday. Have you ever felt alone in a crowd or even within your family or maybe had people clamoring for your attention, but still felt disconnected? See, physical closeness or attention, does not necessarily mean connection. It is these roots, these colors or differing degrees of kinship that make that determination. Finding "your people". The people who listen, who care, who share, and experience life with you in such a way that they can resonate with you across both the range and the depth of who you are and may possibly become. This is hard when you grow and expand in yourself. The people you once were close with, still on a wavelength you've now progressed beyond. That doesn't make us better, it just makes us different and creates a call within us to search for others who can connect with that difference. The deeper, more diverse, and colorful we become the deeper our call and the harder it is to find those who can resonate. But, thankfully our connection is not an all or nothing kind of thing. Even if those who would truly be "our people" would resonate in the color of "blue" for instance that doesn't mean we still can't connect in some way with all the colors and types of people that precede it. We can still connect with the brown, red, yellow, and greens of the world and share in some way a kinship if even on the sparsest of wavelengths. We just have to be honest with how deeply they really can make us feel and not deny ourselves the fullness of connection that who we currently are craves. It may take years to find even one who can connect with all the color of who you are, but you have to bear that burden and shelter your loneliness without harming it. It's true, there aren't many "blues" in the world and you sometimes get pushed away or ostracized by the other colors, but you have to keep going. If you don't and in your pain sever your roots, than you begin the slide to no longer being "blue" yourself, but instead "gray" and empty, devoid of all color. Dying rather than living. Going against ourselves in some of the most painful of ways that it causes us to forget that we deeply, deeply, want to connect with others. Please don't kill that want. Bear the colors of who you are, because there are others just like you searching and bearing their burdens, hoping to find you. You are deeply precious to us and such a joy to experience once found. Keep going, your deepest bonds of family are out there waiting for you... And if you do kill that want and you do forget it and become gray... there is still hope for you. You still carry the seeds of rejuvenation. Find again the ache of loneliness and see it for the desire it is. Protect and shelter it as it takes it's hits from the world and foster it's strength and range of color once again. This is how I brought myself back from the brink. No matter how much you may think you don't need others or how hard it is take pleasure in other people, you can bring yourself back from that place.