gambler

It's behind a paywall. Edit: oh, that link was deleted.

Yea, so now you have a license to kill those savages. Go nuts.

It's impossible to see the israeli perspective when you think a border with the west bank will wipe out Israel. I think it's you that lives in fantasy land.

Yea I consider all of this to be dogma. Quite frankly the international community needs to give the two state solution a shot and have Israel comply with it. Israelis signed up for this when they came to a foreign land. Unfortunately this is the price they have to pay, just like Palestinians had to pay a hefty price. Its on the international community to enforce this.

You do realize, once again, that the West Bank does not have anywhere near the amount of intelligence, technology, innovation, weaponry to seriously challenge their entire existence. You keep talking about last time but let's talk about the status quo for a change. The status quo is the continued subjugation and dehumanization of a people that will eventually lead to their ethnic removal from that region. It will be continued conflicts and lopsided slaughter of a people. What's happening now has been the status quo in Israel since the creation of that state. If the same thing happens after granting them a state, then that is no different than the status quo all along. And Israel can just take it back and call it a day.

You can be totally right or fear mongering to prevent a better solution that might work and would work.

I mean you keep saying this. But Egypt made a peace treaty. Jordan made a peace treaty. Saudi Arabia wants a peace treaty. Syria has not invaded Israel since the 40s. This idea that we can't consider this option after trying the same things over and over again and we get no new results is suspicious. Why would you not consider this when the only other option is the continued dehumanization, subjugation, and lopsided slaughter of a people. If what you say will happen in the future in fact does happen, well Israel will just take back the west bank and call it a day. There's nothing more to lose in terms of considering this option since what you speak of possibly happening in the future is the status quo already. But there is something to be gained.

I agree, genes for right to live in a land is nonsense. But I think it's only relevant to bring up because the obsession with the west bank is an obsession about ancestral rights. Like it is dependent on genetic ancestry.

There is no delusional pipe dream of leaving. And I didn't mean it as you don't need a country. I meant why do they need a state that also includes the occupied west bank.

Exactly this. All Southern Levantine groups (Pali/Jordanaian Christians/Muslims) derive an extremely significant amount of ancestry that ultimately traces right back to the southern levant. I would actually say why is Israel so obsessed with an Israel that includes the occupied West Bank? They are not their ancestors. As a matter of fact they derive nearly half to slightly more of their ancestry to Europeans (you can fact check this by looking through population genetics papers). So they shouldn't feel the need to be so attached to it. Should people with 50% or lower Native American ancestry be trying to take back land in today's world through inhumane means? Most Israelis are not even religious, but secular. If we can say arabs can go to other arab countries, and muslims can leave this place for this other muslim land, then why can't secular Jews be content with living in their current secular countries? Why does their need to be a state for the Jewish people that includes the west bank, if they as a secular people have many secular states to call home on top of the land they have now? That's (secular people) their tribe. The idea that the Jews in the future will be holocausted again in Europe/North/South America is extremely out there given that minorities who people want to see exterminated from their western nations are Muslims.

Because no one wants to start with the very basics. Like giving Palestinians indigenous rights and the right to return just like Jews, equalizing them in the eyes of a potential one-state solution.