SkyPanther

*nod*, this is what I saw in the past as well. There is also some interesting scriptures in Christianity that back the idea: Buddhism and Gnosticism http://gnosis.org/thomasbook/ch22.html Personally, I think it is possible as the early Christians were very close to yogis. But the Roman Church pretty much destroyed that tradition, so now a lot of it is being reconstructed from some obscure texts, and recent discoveries.

*nod*... that's possible. He could have looked dead, by all accounts (not like they had a doctor check him) and he was actually in this state of cessation until he was sealed up. An interesting conjecture. Makes sense though.

I second this. You will need some guidance at the start, otherwise you might have the danger of creating a spiritual ego, akin to Russell Brand. Once you get the root (or seed planted) of a particular path that makes the best sense to you, go wild.

No, But I have heard stories that Christ traveled the world collecting different teachings in his missing years... which is why "I am the son of god" is not so "crazy" when you look at if from the Eastern point of view (because in their POV so is everyone else, you just have to realize this), but is a big "departure" from the Judaic roots that support Christianity. I know the Early Christian Gnostics were also very similar to yogies. And Early Judaism and Christianity had threads of reincarnation in it: -- Judaism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgul Gilgul/Gilgul neshamot/Gilgulei describes a Kabbalistic concept of reincarnation. In Hebrew, the word gilgul means "cycle" or "wheel" and neshamot is the plural for "souls." Souls are seen to "cycle" through "lives" or "incarnations", being attached to different human bodies over time. Christianity: http://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/history/early-christianity.html These writings affirmed the existence of the doctrine of reincarnation being taught among the early Jews and Christians. These Christian mystics, referred to as Christian Gnostics, were ultimately destroyed by the orthodox Church for being heretics. -- Most people that follow either religion ignore these because it does not fit the egoic sense of self they want to go on after death.

That sounds pretty interesting. Apparently really experienced meditators can stay in that state for up to seven days without eating, drinking or going to the bathroom, etc. Supposedly, the breath is also very shallow and slow, and the heartbeat is also a lot slower. I've had something like that, but it was not really during meditation, it was after partially waking up, and being in between sleep and being awake, and then there was a "hole" that I only realized after I came back... but I have never been able to get to this state when meditating. But, I have only been meditating for about a year. And that may not be the same thing as "Cessation".

It could be. Maybe you shift back to pure awareness? I can make conjectures of the different theories put out by various faiths, for instance in Buddhism there is the idea of the mind-stream, which is what is actually "rebirthed"... but is just really the communal habits of all your past lives. If you go deeper into meditation, and hit "Cessation" (the result of getting to the 8th immaterial Jhana), you are not aware of actually being conscious, and only know you were there when you regain consciousness. (I have only gotten to the 4th Jhana/pre-5th thus far, so cannot collaborate the higher ones.) I did get a device that displays your brainwaves: http://store.neurosky.com/pages/mindwave But have not hooked it up yet to see what happens when I start bumping against the 5th Jhana while in the 4th. Should be interesting though.

No Problem. The after effects are very close to what Eckhart Tolle experienced... a reduction in thought, and an attenuated identification with emotions/thoughts... along with a content/sublime feeling at the core of my being (well, I would call it the heart center.) I still have habitual tendencies (habits), but I recognize them as that, so can change them without taking it personally, and with mindfulness this is actually pretty easy. For instance I recognize that I spend entirely too much time on these forums. From my experience, the original teachings of the Buddha make the most intuitive sense, so that is what I have been using to dislodge the other taints and fetters, as the Buddha called them.

I do not know; Sam Harris would be a good person to ask though, heh... I can say that from my reading and experience (during meditation) the default state of the mind is "equanimity", or "sublime bliss". And it is because your mind, for those moments that you are being mindful, is free of "conceptual proliferation". If you have the interest there is a booklet that is very interesting in that it points to exactly this when talking about "nibbana" or enlightenment(It is also what is mentioned in the the Wikilink above): Concept and Reality http://www.dhammasukha.org/uploads/1/2/8/6/12865490/concept_and_reality.pdf It is also interesting to note, that a lot of people that have near death experience, also state that they experience bliss. And this could also be because their consciousness is being freed from the "mind", because they are slowly dying, and parts of the brain are shutting down.

I agree, different teachings come up as solutions for different circumstances (based on location). And this kind of bring up a different idea: "God" in the Abrahamic religions, as you noted Judaism being the "root", is basically the egoic father figure which wants his children to act in accordance to his will. This is a far cry from any of the Vedic schools, where as you note "God" is a non-personal entity, but "the ultimate reality" which we are all parts of, but do not realize it because of the various conditioning. So acceptance of yourself as you are is more of a focus.

Sure; I already had past understanding of different philosophies that lend to existential questions, for instance Panpsychism and Process Philosophy. But I was actually learning about Artificial Intelligence, and consciousness at the time. Mostly because as of right now all AI is not conscious, just "intelligent" to various degrees thanks to neutral networking called "Deep Learning". I started reading different books and theories, for instance: Shadows of the Mind - A Search for the Missing Science of Consciousness https://global.oup.com/academic/product/shadows-of-the-mind-9780195106466?cc=us&lang=en& And then other books on Information Theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decoding_Reality And then I was watching an "ok" movie called "Automata": And at the end, something the Robot/AI said about consciousness, life and humanity, triggered a cascade of connect the dots moments, that culminated in all thought stopping and an expansion of consciousness that happened all within a brief moment. Afterwords I understood "personality" as not self, but a construction of different parts. Memory, Genetics, Social conditioning, etc. And had, what I call, a 2 second gap between my emotions and my identification with them. I never really seriously meditated before this, but the longer I have been meditating, the longer the "gap" gets. Since then, along with the gap getting larger with meditation, I have started feeling disenchantment with "stuff". To the point where I could see myself living as a hermit, or a monk away from the conditioned modern life. And it is not a depressed feeling, it is actually more freeing/equanimous. Modern life tends to pull you out of that state, as do all material "things" and pursuits. There is also still a lot of work left to do in myself, to fully decondition my mind from the ego/self. I just see it as an illusion (or a program running in the information processing organ we call "brain") and pay no mind to it when it acts up. I know it is there to make sense of the world we live in as "humans". But I do not take it seriously anymore.

Personally, I follow Theravada Buddhism as my main tool of "dislodging" my conditioning. However I do know about the other paths, (and Vedanta(Hinduism) and the Śramaṇa movements tends to be compatible with most of Buddhism at least in "spirit".), I just do not mix the traditions though, for instance Christianity, Islam and Judaism are very different from the Eastern philosophies, and I think tend to reinforce the ego. But I agree with @Socrates, eclecticism is a problem when trying decondition yourself; you are in danger of creating a spiritual ego and create delusion of what you think the path should be. And people in the West, including some prominent teachers tend to paint all religions as the same thing, when in reality they have different end goals. The end goal of Buddhism is to decondition yourself out of existence. The main goal of Judaism/Christianity/Islam is to live eternity with a creator being. You could argue that "Nibbana" and "Heaven" are really the same things, but the actual teachings disagree. Heaven in the Judaic/Christian/Judaic/Islamic sense is more akin to the higher realms in Buddhism/Hinduism/Vedanta which are not the "end goals".

Personally, I like the way the Buddha put it, faith should be tempered by wisdom. I think Henri pretty much put it in modern terms. Faith is trust, Wisdom is knowledge and understanding. Sometimes trust can be delusional. In which case wisdom will tip you off of exactly that. This is more open than skepticism, but is still careful enough to see past false ideas/concepts/actions, etc.

Here is a completely secular point of view of "enlightenment". The word itself is just loaded now. The real meaning is just seeing reality as it is. Without the concepts we wrap around everything we see. And this includes the concept of your ego, or self. For example, what is a "car"? If you looked at a car, could you find the thing that is the car? Or is it a concept of things in a certain pattern that create it? The wheels, the body, the chassis, the engine? There is no inherent "car" in a car, that is just a concept. And all the other parts of the car are also concepts. Ditto for things like "cat". A cat is not a thing, it is an organism (which is also a concept) that acts and looks a certain way that we call "cat". And now if you look at your ego, it is memories, habitual tendencies, interests, and projections that you have identified with, but in reality all you are is "matter" and energy that is a certain pattern. How you act is conditioned on your life experiences, and your genetic predispositions. If you see this clearly, the sense of a static "self" disappears and reality becomes a lot more clear, and stress free because you realize that your emotions, and all the problems you have are all conditioned, and not "self".

I think to sort of add to this, people fall back on the memory because "conditioned life" pulls you out of being equanimous, or living without the rooted sense of self. I used to get very stressed about work, personal stuff, family drama, etc. Once I got the first experiance, that all became very... I think the best word I can think of is "distant", but a better one is "unattached". That has not gone away since the experience. But having work, a family, a house and a mortgage, etc, I still have to function in society. Unlike Eckhart Tolle, Alan Watts and Ken Wilber, my livelihood comes from sitting in an office, at a computer. Having to take care of my family, my home, my pets, stay uptodate on the latest discoveries in my industry and listen to NPR, and the like to get the latest happenings in the world. Unlike the yogis and monks most of us live the "laylife" to borrow a Buddhist term. So distractions come up. This is just my opinion, but I think most here that have seen through the illusion of self are "enlightened" (or have woken up, to use the secular version of it). I think everyone is enlightened, but just forget because from the start of life they have been conditioned, these paths are all supposed to be deconditioning that upbringing, and your attachment to your static sense of self. What most try to "chase" is being in that state permanently... and that is possible if you cut yourself off from most stimuli, but not if you are still engaged in the conditioned world. So for most of us, unless we are willing to cut off modern/conditioned life, "enlightenment" will be a work in progress. Because we constantly have to decondition ourselves from the world we are a part of by choice.

I think this is also just something that is in our genetic makeup: The Human Brain May Be Hardwired For Altruism; Certain Activity Inspires People To Be Kind And Generous http://www.medicaldaily.com/human-brain-hardwired-altruistic-behavior-kind-and-generous-378606 I do also think practicing the Brahma-viharas strengthens and builds this neural pathway. And infact there is evidence for that as well: Compassion Meditation Changes The Brain Can we train ourselves to be compassionate? A new study suggests the answer is yes. Cultivating compassion and kindness through meditation affects brain regions that can make a person more empathetic to other peoples' mental states, according to new research. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080326204236.htm

I do tend to use a lot of analogies, but I don't know if it has anything to do with being one way or another when it comes to being enlightened, it could just be a style that a lot of introverts use? I've noticed my friends (most of whom, like myself are introverted) use analogies, examples, and similes. Of course most of my friends(and I) are also what most people would label as "nerdy".

I have been practicing(and initiated into) SKY (Simplified Kundalini Yoga), and include the Brahma Viharas (projecting from Anahata or Agnya to people and the six direction) as part of my open ended Buddhist meditation practice, which is called Tranquil Wisdom Insight Meditation (T.W.I.M.). I agree that it is a lot more meaningful (not to mention plain fun) than the sometimes militaristic Goenka practice of Vipassana. I also agree on the charity observations you bring up. A lot of people (even Hindus and Buddhists) give stuff only for the Merit/Karma. Which I think misses the whole point of both teachings.

You could say the same thing for your own thoughts... is it good to reinforce your own thought without questioning them, and challenging any views you may hold? I use forums like these to bounce ideas off people, or help those that have just started out. But everyone here is at various stages, so it is interesting hearing other people's opinions, and those that challenge you are actually more interesting to talk to.

@Henri@jjer94 I actually agree with both of you. From jjer94's point of view, the "Golden Chain" is just as much a prison as the "Iron Chain", meaning if you are forcing yourself to act a certain way (even if it's "good") you are still trapped by ego, and culture. But Henri's point of view is also valid, that people that just do plain Vipassana, without the "tranquility" of using the Brahma Viharas, creates some really.... cold "enlightened" people. The Gold chain should dissolve at some point, and you do good not because you think you "should" but because you realize the actions have various consequences, and doing "good(or neutral)" should become apparent. The path (of the various yogi teachings) is supposed to be the training to get you to this point. You will at first do good to counteract the bad habits. But after awhile doing good just becomes apparent. To put it in another way, someone donating money because they think it will bring them good karma or merit vs someone donating because they see how it will change someone's life for the better. There are shades of these two extremes, but one side is selfish, the other is not. One is a egoic "want", the other is sympathetic joy/compassion.

Well, but that's why life is fun.... sometimes... we can delude ourselves to think whatever we want to think because thinking, doing or saying it makes us feel good. Nothing really wrong with it, but props for picking it up, because most people don't.

Hey, at least you admit it. Most people go their whole lives without being honest, and seeing that in themselves. As long as you see it, there is nothing wrong with having fun with whatever... just as long as you know it's actually really silly in the first place. It's how I feel when I play Fallout 4 for hours... (How silly, I am playing a game and wasting my time again!)

This is spot on. Alan Watts also said something similar: It is all a matter of perspective.

The Island by Aldous Huxley covers an Ideal society from my point of view. Add in virtual reality, space travel, and AI and that would be my personal ideal place to exist in. Of course others may want other things...to each their own.

Alan Watts has an interesting take on it, kind of playing with the Hindu idea: Only "god" is really you.