Tenebroso

Women are just as shallow after their 20s. It is a myth that they stop chasing hot, emotionally unavailable men. If anything their standards become even harsher. Men never become equally attractive to women at any age.

Women get the ick from attractive men. An attractive man and an unattractive man could have the exact same habits and the unattractive man will give women the ick while the same habit in an attractive man will be seen as cute or quirky instead of putting. The sexiness of a man is more important than his behaviour. If a man is sexy his flaws are accepted if a man is unattractive his flaws give the ick. There is a big difference.

Again I think this is a myth. Women in their 30s and 40s are just as attracted to hot, emotional unavailable men as younger women. Maybe in the past when women had less freedom they would grow to appreciate more stable men as they aged. However, today women have never been more free to center their true desires and I think we are seeing that women are just as sexual as men if not more but just for a small percentage of men.

I am saying women do not care about those things. My hypotheses is that women are more shallow than men.

@Natasha Tori Maru I don't know if I would say men are victims. I don't think women are actually doing anything wrong to men. Men are not entitled to anything and I would not turn back the clock to restrict female freedom. That isn't the right solution. However my issue is with the discourse around dating which presents women as having a kind of attraction which is more complicated and takes into account thing beyond the physical etc kindness, humour, intelligence etc....... What we thought once about female nature was based on an epoch where the true desires of women were restricted due to patriarchy, religion, socio-economic forces. Now that women are free at least in the west, we see that women are just as lustful and sexually driven as men if not more but importantly just for a minority of men. There are plenty of stats that support my views but more importantly observing what women say but watching what they do and who they choose repeatedly. I have attractive friends and live in a diverse major city. I know the experiences of my attractive friends are true because I have lived with some of them and know what happens behind closed doors. More women are in some kind of relationship than men, despite there being an almost equal number of men and women, why? because the most attractive men are often involved with multiple women, they have so many option that they have no incentive to settle down. Sometimes they are honest, sometimes they are not, so some women think they are in a committed relationship while the guy see her as just another option. There is a lot of discussion around single mothers. Women say well it takes to two people to make a child they are right but what they don't acknowledge is that a small percentage of men have multiple kids with multiple women out of wedlock yet women will continue choosing those men anyway. Most men are not out there creating single mothers. A small percentage of men out there cause so much damage because women find them so attractive that they never have any incentive to change or become better which reveals that character, virtue and all these qualities women claim are important are in fact not important. If a man is attractive enough all red flags go out of the window.

In 2025 men are not the gatekeepers of anything. A small percentage of men may have some influence over relationships because they are the men that women want. My point is that the fact men are attracted to way more women than women are to men, means nothing because for most men the women you are attracted to have zero interest in you, so those options mean nothing. Also women sexual desire is not as complicated as people make out it's just that so few men can trigger that raw sexual sexual attraction in women. Other qualities do not in fact have much influence in making a woman attracted to a man; kindness, humour, intelligence etc It is a myth. If women cared about these things, we would see a much wider spectrum of men doing well with women. That is not what is happening, there is a vast difference in the experiences of men. Some men attract nobody regardless of all their positive qualities while some men attract thousands of women. Women today complain about narcissistic players who lie and manipulate them yet these men are always chosen by women regardless of their reputation, why? because they are attractive and the type for many women.

I am sure I could have a great time if I woke up a billionaire. There is a long list of things I could do and acquire but then there is reality. The fact that I could enjoy sex and abundance with women if I could, means nothing basically. You are either that guy or you are not. Finding that one man she enjoys having sex with is a better problem to have than hoping that a woman will give you the time of day to just talk. A date is an achievement for a man.

"All it takes for most men to WANT to have sex with a woman is her appearance. For most women, it takes more than a physical appearance to WANT to have sex with a man; but not just that, even if she wants to, it doesn't mean she'll go ahead and do it" FALSE. Physical appearance is enough for most women. It is a myth that women are not influenced by lust and desire as much as men. If a man is physically attractive enough, women will sleep with him very quickly without getting to know him. I have seen it with my friends time and time again. "Females have more men hitting on them, yes, than women hitting on men but not many she would actually want to, or have sex with. Wanting sex for us doesn't just come from feeling horny, but with a specific type of guy. A woman can have sex with someone she's not physically attracted to just like men, but a man will do it purely for physical reasons while a woman, in this case, it would be circumstantial. A man could be horny, and if an attractive woman hits on him, and is willing to sleep with him, more than likely he'd go, especially if he's single. For a horny woman, that takes more than just a guy hitting on her, physically attractive to her or not." Yes a woman has to be horny and in the right mood, phase of her life. That is a difference between men and women but if she is in that receptive state physical attraction is going to be the reason why she does it. Women are not having circumstantial sex with men because he is funny, charming, kind whatever.....even young women today are explicit in their disgust for ugly men. The fact she is horny and willing does not change that. Maybe 20 or 30 years ago an ugly man could use his personality and good timing to get sex but not anymore. Why would give these men a chance when a physically attractive man is in their DMs. Women already have attractive men as fuck buddies whenever they need to scratch that itch. "So no, women don't have more options for sex preferences - men do. Going out the door and having multiple guys hitting on me DOES mean I'll have more options for sex, but it DOESN'T mean my preferences are abundant. Sex for most women is different than what it is for men, please understand that. MEN WILL FIND MORE WOMEN THEY'D SLEEP WITH THAN WOMEN WITH MEN." Wrong, emphatically wrong. Men have more options for sex preferences is another way of saying that men do not have high standards for arousal but that is null and void because most of those women are not interested. Sex is not as different for women and men as people think. Women would like to pretend their attraction is more complexed and nuanced.......it's not, sorry. The truth so few men trigger that raw lust that women don't seem as sexual as men. With the most attractive men female lust is is even more potent and animalistic than men's sexuality. I have very attractive friends; male models, athletes, drug dealers.......I know what they are doing with women. Women who present a reserved, complexed face to the world but are completely different behind closed doors. Men finding more women they'd sleep with means nothing if those women have zero interest. It's like making a list of things I would like to acquire if I became a Billionaire tomorrow. Don't you get it distinguishing sexual preferences and options means nothing because those preferences for men are not true options. Women don't even want to be the preference for most men. "This is not about status, wealth, attractiveness, competence, confidence, security, etc. either, just in general. All a man needs is for her to be his type, and sometimes not, and he's willing if he's single and looking and sometimes not also. Women aren't generally out looking for strange men just to have sex with, so her options are limited in that way. Men aren't out approaching lots of women just to go have coffee or tea." Sorry but this is where you show your privilege and lack of understand of how difficult it is to date as a man. All a man needs is for her to be his type but many men like myself are nobodies type. A small percentage of men are lucky enough to be the type to many women. It takes an incredible stroke of luck if you are obviously not very attractive to be a woman's exact type. Men are not approaching women because most women are not receptive to being approached. Women have made it clear over the last decade that they want the vast majority of men to leave them alone.

@Princess Arabia Ok. I will quote and reply directly to the OP to point where you are wrong.

I am not mad at the world, if I was I would hurt people which I would never do. I am mad at myself for not being good enough. Life is not worth it at all as an unattractive man. Genuinely getting to know women makes little to no difference if they are not attracted to. It is a myth that you can make a women interested slowly over time especially in this era where her emotional needs can be met in other ways. If you are not sexy you don't get a shot. Women don't care about how smart, kind, funny, emotionally available you are.......men without these qualities have never been more popular because they have the right look. I have never been on a date or had a girlfriend you must be confusing me with another person.

You take for granted that every man is some woman's type. What if you are no woman's type? If dating worked the way you and many women present it then attraction would be evenly distributed and every man would have some kind of love life but that is not what is happening is it. Instead we have a dating scene where young women are involved in these long term situationships with players who lie, manipulate and offer no emotional availability. Why do women engage with these men? because those men fit into the very narrow harsh standards of attraction for modern men. Most men do not fit that and wil not be anyone's type and have little control over how much sex they can have.

Women's options are limited because most men are not attractive enough. Men do not have more options because they are attracted to more women, because those options don't care that you exist and would puke at the thought at being intimate with you.

I think you are trolling. If men have more options because they are attracted to more women but those women have zero interest in you and even find you repulsive, then those options mean nothing. The fact that a man is aroused by so many women and expected to approach means nothing for the majority of men. The end result either way is nothing happening because the woman is not interested.

Not only are you wrong but most young women today would disagree with you. Young women have never been more brutally honest in how they feel about most men. We are ugly and repulsive the women of our generations and the days of compensating with money or personality is over. Women have their own money now and get their emotional needs met through their friendships. So the only use for men is sex, lust and desire and for that only a very small percentage of men qualify. If you are not one of those men your desires mean nothing, they are a burden to women. Marriage rates have drooped because the days of women settling for average men who are not sexy but stable and nice are over. This is the reality.

Funny that you mention nightclubs because it's known in that the world that nightlife is dying because men have stopped going because there is no point. Women have zero interest in 99% of men they meet at a nightclub. Those days are over. I go out all the time and I see much older couples but young people are either alone or with friend groups if it's a young couple it is always tall, attractive man with average woman. I never see the unattractive man with attractive woman thing people talk about.

Most men do not have options for sex. I live in a city of 10 million people. This weekend I can't snap my fingers and decide to have sex, the fact that I am attracted to many women means nothing. They are not real options because pretty much all of them will not not be attracted to me.

What you are really just exposing is that men have much lower standards for women in terms arousing lust. However, the fact that men find so many women attractive is more of a problem because the vast majority of those women will not want to have anything to do with you. The issue with this subject is that women speak like attraction is evenly distributed and that there is a woman for every guy, while what really happens is that some guys end up being involved with hundreds of women and other die alone. Men do not have an abundance of options, the fact that men are expected to approach is a burden not a privilege. Most men will experience rejection after rejection the fact that men are so easily attracted to women is more of an absurd cosmic joke of the universe because we are repulsive to the majority of women we will ever find attractive. A very small percentage of attractive, high status men experience true abundance.

This is a backhanded compliment. Let me be cynical in peace.

Be rude and selfish they love that.

Not attracted to younger women. I am early 30s. I pay attention to women my age and older. Older women are into the same things, it is a myth that other qualities become more important as you get older. Actually older women are now competing with younger women for the hot younger guys. Women are independent and free now as they should be to choose lust and desire and that means there isn't much difference in the taste of young women and older women. Maybe once upon a time women did evolve in their taste as they aged but I think that is not true anymore. Well the dating scene seems to be a mess and women seem to not be getting what they need from the guys that they are involved with yet those guys are continually picked. So it's not adding up.

Until women admit they are as shallow if not more than men then all these videos will mean nothing. If women were attracted to what they say they are attracted to we would have a completely different dating scene and a completely different world. Kind, sensitive, emotionally intelligent do not get picked........The men who attract the most women cause so much damage because they never have to improve or do any inner work because women will choose them for their looks and status anyway.

Society is not evolving. Society is lying to itself. Actually this so called evolving only has revealed the dark shadow of men and especially women more. I am not very traditionally masculine myself but people who talk like this to be blunt are almost always full of shit.

There is no such thing as toxic masculinity or healthy masculinity. For such a dichotomy to exist there need to be an objective moral standard we collectively adhere to. For any of us to exist discussing ideas on a forum means we are descendants of amoral, ruthless men who for millennia out competed and out thought other men for the right to pass on their genes to the next generation. This is simply nature. My maternal grandfather brutally murdered Japanese soldiers during world war 2 then went on to have seven daughters including my mother. Was his capacity to kill toxic or was it necessary to stop Imperial Japan rampaging across south east-asia committing crimes against humanity. Masculinity contrary to popular belief is as nuanced and complicated as femininity. The best things about men; physical strength, drive, competition and organization.........inevitably can have negative manifestations. However, you can't repress the negative parts without damaging the positive expressions of masculinity. In other words masculinity has to be accepted in its entirety including the ugly, uncomfortable parts. The moral righteousness of people who use the term toxic masculinity only exposes their own discomfort with their own ugly, animalistic nature which we all have. A common pattern I have noticed among people who use the term toxic masculinity is that they are hypocrites and projecting. The male feminist who wants to prove he was of the kind, good, emotionally intelligent men by demonizing other men for being toxic often turns out to be an abuser himself. Women who scream about toxic masculinity are the one dating violent bad boys, narcissistic fuckboys. They are so confused by their own nature that they vilify good men to rationalize their attraction towards what they claim to hate. Men who have never harmed, abused or manipulated a woman are treated with more disgust and venom than the men who actually harm women. Why? because women actually love toxic masculinity. The men living from their most toxic side are not the ones suffering from the male loneliness crisis. There is no incentive to be a so called good man because following the current discourse, the goalpost for meeting the required standard to be a healthy man can always be raised higher and higher. You are never good enough and while you trying to become this enlightened, emotionally intelligent, kind saint..... women are flocking to men who embody the exact opposite of these qualities. Men should do as they please. Masculinity does not mean protecting, providing, serving, building etc if that is not what you genuinely desire or want to do. True masculinity if there is such thing is living according to your own instinct, intuitions and desires regardless of any flimsy, subjective morality imposed by hypocrites who don't practice what they preach. The most important thing however, is taking full responsibility for the path you take. That is above everything.

I wouldn't say I hate women because hate leads to action and I have no intent to hurt women but I share your frustration. The more I learn about women, the more I consider their views and really listen to them juxtaposed with their actions the more I wonder if they are worth it. I feel like unless you are the kind of man women actively pursue due to some combination of looks, status, charm, money etc...then it's not worth going out of your way to be involved with them. The irony is guys who naturally get the most women are indifferent to them and don't treat them well. Women themselves seem confused and disappointed by their own choices. I find collectively women are nowhere as romantic, nurturing, empathetic as is claimed. All of this is not a pass to mistreatment women. I wouldn't turn back the clock on any of their advancements or choose to live in a more traditional time, it's better to see their true nature for what it is unrestricted as it is in the west.

So basically if you are not very attractive man on first sight you pretty much have to become famous or at the very least become high status. Can't just exist anymore as a regular guy and attract women because even average women want the very best they can get and they will sacrifice commitment to just be an attractive man's fuck buddy rather than get commitment from a man on her level. The catch 22 is that once you become that attractive, high status man what incentive is there to commit to any one woman when you have so many options? Women unintentionally create the dating scene they complain about. Players and fuckboys exist because men who can live that way are heavily incentivized to do so.