Tenebroso

Rubbish as usual. Niceness, charm, kindness, emotional intelligence have nothing to do with attraction. Women themselves basically admit this today. It's men like yourself trying to convince yourself the opposite because the truth of female attraction is too uncomfortable to face. You wrote a whole lot of nothing. Thieves, abusers, violent men have zero issues attracting all kinds of women. If you are attractive enough or high status enough women can justify anything you do. All these standards only apply to unattractive men who women barely tolerate at best.

@Chives99 With respect these kinds of posts don't help, you have not said anything nobody has heard before, just a sequence of empty new age cliches. Not every problem can be solved by "loving yourself". If you are a 30 year old man and have only known rejection and indifference from women and society "connection", "love", "wholeness" are alien concepts. People like yourself underestimate the psychological and emotional toll that exclusion has on someone from a young age it just builds exponentially. It's like living with a bad heart or terminal disease, once it happens you are never the same again. The best you can do is find meaning and self worth outside of sex and relationships, without all the spiritual crap that people write mindlessly without understanding themselves. If you had been in the shoes of the people you speak about you would not write what you have written. Women do not have empathy for unattractive, low confidence, women are not lovely and wonderful. Right now, in this very moment a violent, abusive man who isn't filled with love is sleeping with multiple women and has endless options. You make posts like this not out of genuine concern to help but to shut down conversation and put incels in their place. Try being awkward in a London west end nightclub and see how far that gets you.

Contrary to popular belief being nice and treating people how you want to be treated will make you seem weak. People respect fear and the ability to dominate. Society gaslights men into believing otherwise, while the spoils of life go to the most horrible men.

@aurum If love attracts love, then why are violent, abusive men so loved. They never seem to have a shortage o women to choose from. On another forum someone asked a brilliant question. Why do women never get The Ick from abusive men? Nobody could give an answer maybe the reality of attraction and mating is much darker and uncomfortable than we want it to be.

@Kid A More gaslighting. Actually a pathetic post with the usual stereotypes. There are men who didn't play video games, watch anime and stay inside who were ostracized for one reason or another, there is more nuance to why one life unfolds different to another than your myopic nonsense. Your generalizing of the entire spectrum of men that have struggled with women says more about you. If women are selecting for mate fitness I guess we should be glad that abusers, murderers and worse have no problems attracting women, just nature working as intended.

Most men are repulsive. For most of history women did not have choice in who they mated with which created an artificial abundance for men. What we are seeing today with men struggling is actually what is natural when women have choice. A few men get all the sex and the rest kind of just exist in frustration and are sedated with porn, weed, video games etc. In previous centuries a large hunk of the male population would be culled through constant war, generation after generation. Ironically the most powerful, attractive men are the most likely to harm and abuse women. Most unattractive men will never be alone with a woman and most harm done to women is done by men they know in one way or another.

@Kid A I've given up, I am just waiting to die. The only reason why I won't kill myself is that I believe in Reincarnation and don't want to repeat this life.

@Emerald Thanks but I think I am done. From the age of 17 I have tried everything. Finding that one person feels like a distant fantasy, when I go outside I see people my age and younger in couples, friendship groups, families etc While I am pathetically hoping that one person on this earth would like me. The hope is demoralizing.

I have experienced the same. What if you never get a yes?

I was unpopular with men and women. A group of boys used to tell me everyday at 15 that "Nobody loves you" it's etched in my memory. The leader of that group was already having sex with multiple women at school and is now married with kids. The girls at school used to say "I would die a virgin", when condoms were handed out during sex education class they laughed at me taking them, since I would never need them. I never found my group of outcast, anyone I asked out would laugh at me. Never got invited anywhere. If a healthy masculinity is so attractive then why do overtly negative, destructive men manage to attract women? How can I develop any self love with such a terrible foundation. I have no positive memories, nothing to fall back on where I can say at this point I was embraced, even cousins and older siblings treated me bad. If you never find your tribe, your self development amounts to nothing. I've had phases of trying to embrace myself and it works until you go home alone again knowing nobody cares about you or will call on your birthday. I am not angry at women anymore but I have given up on trying, the only reason I won't kill myself is because I believe in reincarnation and think I will have to repeat this lifetime if I commit suicide. So I just have to endure this pathetic existence until it's my time.

These kind of men probably receive validation very early. When I was at school some guys were getting laid at 13,14 those boys begun a cycle of always being involved with women and being validated, they never even had a chance to develop shame. While guys like myself have been stuck in an infinite cycle of peer and romantic rejection from childhood, how are you supposed to break that negative loop if you never get a chance. All the self development and awareness means nothing if you never get a chance to show your positive qualities in a relationship, people are not islands we grow and gain confidence in relation to other people. This is the missing part of your excellent post which did resonate with me. Some men like myself are psychologically and emotionally broken beyond repair, it feels karmic as if I did something to deserve this in another life.

@Emerald Reply to my edited post.

@Emerald Interesting examples. I admire Jon Stewart and Cornel West. George Carlin is a hero of mine, use to fall asleep to his comedy specials. Jack Black I admire but I know I could never embody that level of self confidence. Your original post is enlightening, I recognize the shame you talk about in myself. I am 30 and have only known rejection to the point that I struggle to look women in the eye and try to avoid them in public now because I feel so unworthy. I've never tried to compensate by being super stylish or becoming muscular, focusing on my look etc However at least for my generation it seems those things matter you don't get to show your positive qualities unless you have an attractive mask. I feel that there is a harsh truth that society struggles to accept, some men are just meant to be alone. Being my natural self has never attracted anyone. All kinds of men get laid a lot not just guys similar to your examples with a balanced masculine and feminine nature. Murderers, drug dealers, thieves and much worse seem to get laid. In the UK where I live a police officer kidnapped, abused and killed a woman while on duty yet he had a wife and family. What's so wrong with guys like me?

@Princess Arabia Thought provoking. So why are women very repulsed by the desire of some men, while being very receptive to others. What are the guys who women consistently respond positively to, doing right. If feels like the male desire for sex and love is a burden to women. I have resorted in recent years to hiding my desire because I have no positive experience of a woman embracing my presence.

I was born with a birth injury and spent my hospital in childhood, so this should be interesting. Thanks.

Fascinating thread

I'm open to anything that helps but I can't lie it's a bit disheartening that one has to do something like this just to experience what comes naturally to other men. I feel like these type of things help men who have some sort of romantic success/experience in the past, so they know it's possible. However if you have had literally nothing only rejection, maybe the subconscious and self image is so damaged to the point it can't be healed and maybe it's even doing more damage to give yourself false hope. If there was a pill that could switch off romantic and sexual desire permanently I would take it. The only reason I don't take my own life is because I believe in reincarnation and if I take that option I will have to do this life of rejection and suffering again.

I understand. When you are in a negative mindset, these kind of stories can be hard to take but it's not a conspiracy, it's how we evolved. At the end of the day you have to focus on your own journey, resenting what another man gets can only trigger seething poisonous resentment which will sabotage you. If I could turn back the clock when I was deep in my resentful phase I would just ignore these kind of stories, they keep young men in a negative feedback loop.

@Princess Arabia You are right, I am determined to find a new approach because I have chosen to let go of victimhood regardless of the past and take a positive life affirming approach to life. I have experienced the depths of despair and come out the other side, I now believe life is worth living even if things don't always work out the way you want. Putting myself out there without too many expectations does seem like the best approach from where I am. The questioning approach to affirmations is something I have never come across before, so instead of commanding your subconscious you ask? So it is better to be more open ended about intentions and desires instead of specific because it gives your subconscious more to play with? I apologize for my antagonizing post in the past. Thanks for your patience.

@Princess Arabia I appreciate you taking the time to give a detailed insightful response. I think being open to receiving as you say is the key. I have very closed aloof energy, maybe as a result of being too used to being alone. Can a person begin to change from the inside out through affirmations and visualization. A person is always growing and even for men your vibe can change year to year, month to month etc Is it worth it to try to date when you are actively working on improving yourself or would it be healthier to not think of women, sex, attraction etc at all until I develop a healthier vibe. Sometimes it feels like I have to be perfect to have a chance yet everyone is a work in progress consciously or unconsciously, so if there is someone for everyone wouldn't there also be someone for every internal state you may be embodying at any particular time positive or negative.

@Princess Arabia Great post. It makes sense, it seems that female attraction is very dynamic. What does it mean if you never seem to fit into what a woman needs? So you don't get chosen to settle down with, you don't get casual sex and hookups because women sense you are not a player and even the women drawn to toxic men unconsciously seeking to repeat their trauma are not drawn to you. Naturally I am closer to the simple looking guy, not flashy I don't stand out apart from being very tall. I also wear glasses, how does that effect how I am perceived? Can you become another type? Is there any way for a tall, skinny guy who wears glasses to become the guy who women feel can satisfy them when they are horny.

@Princess Arabia Isn't this a Catch 22, chicken or the egg type conundrum? What if circumstances when we are a child create those beliefs, how do you get out of that loop? Consciously creating a new identity?

@Princess Arabia So your beliefs create your reality? Everything is a mental reflection of your self image?

Until society faces the true nature of female desire all of this confusion will continue. However, that cannot happen, men need to stay ignorant to keep the wheels churning.

I am where you are. I cut out numbing distractions like porn, alcohol etc in 2023. It gives you great clarity but that clarity only makes your despair more painful. I take it day by day, hour by hour for example today about 4 films I love were on television unexpectedly, it took me out of my dark stupor for half of the day. My birthday is just before Christmas and as usual I spent my birthday, Christmas and new years alone apart from some volunteering. Life isn't fair while we live quiet lives of desperation another guy has more friends and women than you can imagine it's not because we are horrible, terrible people it's just the randomness of life. My Father was a violent, abusive man and ended up with 7 children that we know of from multiple women. I try to find joy in small things but deep down I wish I had never been born, progressing spiritually doesn't mask the inherent nastiness of this world, it's just another cope.