Kevin Dunlop

Leo I recommend you do it for yourself then. I had this conversation with my Dad, only because it was recommended to me as a way to advance. I said OK and invited my Dad over. I started up the conversation then began the rant. Here are the rules I was given to follow, that worked perfectly. After the experience I felt a huge amount of the damage and pain he caused me was released, and our relationship was not damaged it improved. It was quite unexpected for me how much better I could feel without even having thought there was any reason to need to feel better! I call it take the power back, heres how it works 1 Tell your parents what they did to you (maybe one parent at a time) that you didnt like, you hated, felt injust about, or damaged you. 2 Tell them how this made you feel 3 You do not have to listen to what they want to say in response. I for example said to my Dad ¨I am not here to listen to your excuses¨ after he began to say ¨Well, thats just the way things were done back then....¨ Have complete freedom and confidence, get into the process 100% with no worries about the consequences. Sounds brutal, but my Dad realized alot and had to confront it. I have never gone back to being the same and dont deserve to, is how I looked at it when I felt better. As an experiment for us consider it if not for you. If your parents freak out and you regret it just tell them later you got some bad advice from a nut on the internet and want them to forgive you.

In some material I read about fasting and purification of the body this guy was getting to a really good level of detoxing, many times he fasted on water always pissing DDT and chemicals out! Eventually he barfed out some murcury and toxic stuff. It sounds like its better to let your body decide if it needs to get rid of pollution.

The healthy socializing you evolved with is now beyond your scope to experience, for example you have no tribe, no access to the natural world and you dont know anything about it. The socializing you do now is likely full of weird contradictions and hollywood on auto-pilot. Iam not sure how important it is if you dont work on understanding it and improving it. If feelings that are frustrating, confusing, surface level, disappointing or problematic come to mind there is much work to be done on how you socialize. New goals, interpretations of what things mean and better communication skills are a good start. Then youll enjoy who you are in the social world alot more. I personally dont seek out social contact when I dont have to.

Research shows that the personality is largely formed by the time we are 3 to 7 years old. I look at the identity as a collection of learned ways to interpret then respond to reality, as well as having ideas about who you are, what your goals are, etc. All of this information about who you are and what you will do comes from parents, TV, school, friends and the example of society (not experts on how to form a good identity). If you look at what your identity is and realize you decided on most of it when you were 3 or 4 years old does this make you feel strange about following it without question? If the basis for what you do was made by a 3 year old mind, you are still trying to complete the deals you made with yourself back then. Just because you dont remember having made those deals doesnt mean that you are not still trying to manifest them. Infact if you try to you probably can remember having made alot of the decisions about your life now as a kid - try it and see what you come up with. Its like having a program from the 80´s still in your computer today. So not self-actualizing as an adult is like letting a 5 year old decide what I should do, how should I react to all the situations in my life. For this reason its important for me to investigate my identity and question why Iam doing the stuff I do, or reacting the way I do to life situations and reform this when I need to. Can you give us any examples of this from your own life?

I was pondering a similar point yesterday and it has to do with the alone or together situation. Alone I can learn alot but I will never know if what I learn applies to only me or if it also applies to others. But when we learn in a group we can bounce our ideas off others and find out if there are universal things that help everyone. We dont know much about this second option anymore since we dont live in groups anymore. But the Buddists who do enlightenment work do live in groups and use a social network. Sex however I have heard is not part of that. I have heard that relationships are the best place to find out about yourself. I do appreciate relationships because they keep me involved in society, here I learn new things from people like you, and I learn about people where I wouldnt have done any of that without ladies pulling me out of the bush

here are some good examples of communication improvements I have been able to learn and, test out with other people, that make life alot easier. Remember everything you do that has anything to do with other people is guided by communication. You can go from miserable, helpless, frustrated to informed, enjoying and seeing results you love, that you know you made happen, and how you did it, just by relearning communication as an adult. This makes life alot easier because the problems we create by not knowing what we are doing are far greater than anything caused by others in out lives, (who we tend to blame so dont improve ourselves). So here I included three examples, Non Violent Communication -Marshall Rosenberg Restitution - Diane Gossen How to talk so kids can listen and listen so kids can talk -Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish Its hard to explain these teachings without giving you the full books ( which I dont have anymore). Overall what they teach in terms of actualization is analyzing your identities communication tools from a new educated perspective, comparing it to the information in the book and slowly conditioning yourself to have updated communication through experiences. If you get this happening youll be amazed at how you can transform situations with other people for the better. Most of these examples come from the field of Parenting but also apply to any communication. So if you ever want to hang out with kids and be that awsome grownup who everyone loves get into these books it really transformed my vibe! https://www.nesacenter.org/uploaded/conferences/SEC/2012/spkr_handouts/Hargrave_Restitution.pdf Another hidden benefit of learning good parenting ( which is 90% communication ) you can then analyze how you were parented and how your identity was formed form a new, educated perspective. Ahhhh haaaa. Here we see its like cue cards you take out the old responses you learned and put in the new ones that work.

when will you truely want nothing?

Hi I printed the book Empty Cloud thanks for posting the link, good read

your conditioned identity wont see beyond yourself.

With the ways of the intellect you won’t see beyond intellect. - Tilopa

When living with family you have the opportunity for healing and observing but usually one has to be on their own first and decompress. Talking deeply about it is good you adress the problem in your family when everyone can there might be need for a wise third party to get involved in observing your dynamic and suggesting things. Forget about money cars and computer games - healing your family is more important in the long run its worth your effort once you know how

Kid are you getting the information here yet? Move out! But I know, you have to go through alot of mental changes to do just that. Like trust the world out there to support you and unhook from the addiction of being a part of this dynamic, for example. So it may be that you will be there for a few more weeks at least days months years?? So in the meantime even if you are there only a few more day, do this lab test on your Dad its the perfect opportunity to learn and try it. NonViolentCommunication (look it up on the net) its got 4 steps to encourage compassion in otheres by changing the way you talk. Try it and see if you change something, I noticed it works as it says it should. 4 STEPS you need to memorize #1 observe -say what you are observing in a phrase ( key point - dont say WHO is doing what is happening this creates defensiveness to acusation) Eg. When people yell at me #2 feeling - how you feel when this happens eg. I feel like hurt #3 How I need to feel eg. I need to feel respected and loved #4 your request could you please speak in a more relaxed tone? So the secret is you dont say anything else - you use this formula after having practiced it. It allows you to express your authentic feelings and needs and ask for compassion without messing it up with your confused identity. The other person doesnt have to do what you ask them to do, its up to them. But this gives you a form to try, if you pull it off simply you may be able to change the dynamic , be calm and scientific. observe the results, you have nothing to lose and alot to learn so get started.

‘As I see your current practice, you are like a heretic and entirely on the wrong path, having wasted ten years’ training. If, by staying in a grotto and drinking water from mountain streams, you managed to succeed in living ten thousand years, you would only be one of the ten classes of Rishis (immortals) listed (in the ‘fifth false states’) in the Surangama Sutra8 and still be far away from the Dao. Even if you managed to advance a further step, thus realizing the ‘first fruit’,9 you would only be a ‘self-enlightened fellow’ (Pratyeka Buddha). But as for a Bodhisattva, his quest is for Buddhahood from ‘above’ for the conversion and liberation of living beings here ‘below’, his way being to pursue self-liberation for the liberation of others, leaping to the supramundane plane without fleeing from the mundane. Dharma Master Yang-jing

Even if you managed to advance a further step, thus realizing the ‘first fruit’,9 you would only be a ‘self-enlightened fellow’ (Pratyeka Buddha). But as for a Bodhisattva, his quest is for Buddhahood from ‘above’ for the conversion and liberation of living beings here ‘below’, his way being to pursue self-liberation for the liberation of others, leaping to the supramundane plane without fleeing from the mundane. Dharma Master Yang-jing

Since I had not even a bowl myself, I experience boundless freedom from all impediments.EMPTY CLOUD The Autobiography of the Chinese Zen Master

It might be important to look into yourself and realize what you personally are doing in the love situation you are creating. It takes some deep analyzing to see what you are doing and why. I dont pretend to know what love is for everyone at every level but I can see what I am doing in my relationship and how it changes. Maybe these examples could be helpful Learned ego programming and decisions I made in early childhood still give me objectives in my relationships. This is no sin its the way we all start out and go from there. For example when I was a kid I thought ¨My Dad is mean, I wish he could learn to be nicer¨ So without knowing it I chose a girl to be with who could get mean because I always wanted to teach someone I love not to be mean. This is a tough job not really happy work, but until we understand why we are doing it, ( a childhood desire) we unconsciously hammer away at the silly plan. I was trying to understan the dynamic of love and meaness that I couldnt get anywhere with my Dad, so I unconsciously push someone into role playing until I understand the mystery enough and move on. Also my Dad had a partner like mine at this point in his life, I am just copying his formula without even knowing it. When I was growing up racism made girls I went to school with ignore me. I always wished for a girlfriend and a sexlife so finally I achieved that teenage goal. So the point is that the identity has tons of goals,and reasons, and objectives all planned for you from what you learned you should want and how you should feel etc. Some people never see these things and inocently go along trying to fulfill all of these ego objectives. Once this impossible feat is revealed one has to unravel themselves from this messy situation and learn some better ways of being. I dont want ¨my relationship¨, I dont call it ¨love¨ but I do want what is. Its a place where I cant have expectations but I can learn, enjoy and improve myself. I cant expect my partner to do or learn anything she is free to decide that for herself. I dont have to roleplay for her either, if I need space its no insult, no one is perfect, no one taught us how to have a great relationship, we have to learn that for ourselves over time or do something else.

Thanks beam, I also learn good things here with this group. Its the natural way we evolved to have likeminded people around to bounce ideas off. I am also trying to practice writing in a specific way here that is meant to be helpful.

one time I was dreaming everything seemed to lack substance, it was frustratingly unreal. I woke up and looked around so glad to be back in my normal world, so vivid full of posibilities. Then years later I realized that this identity filter too was just like the unreal dream, nothing like the true reality one could wake up to experience.

jjer94 ¨there's no such thing as morality.¨

jjer94 ¨It's all up in the air after realizing that the person has no control whatsoever over what they do.¨

jjer94 ¨The enlightened state is simply your present experience, unfiltered! ¨

I agree its so important to choose what not to do. Barbara Coloroso advised parents to ask themselves ¨Is it really important?¨ So many times I said, ¨no[ and left things alone, everyone was alot happier without my ego getting involved

So true and funny, thanks. I was lucky enough to learn to stop my egos automatic responses and use some really good ones I learned from Diane Gossen while taking care of kids. I noticed blatently that not only do we cause our own trouble but trouble for the poor kids who have to deal with us and get blamed for our misinformed identities. Lots to improve but life does get alot easier when we learn how to change

On 3/8/2016 at 1:44 AM, MIA.RIVEL said: Train your ego to let it go and walk away, Silence is better than wasting your time on bullshi*

Really good friend, you have noticed alot of what is happening. Index cards are how I visualize the ego working all the time! So, right now you are using index cards they are just written in your mind where you cant easily see them. Every time something happens your ego goes to its index cards ( your learned identity) to find an interpretation, a feeling and a response for you to use. You dont even realize what happened but you, all of the sudden, interpret a situation, feel a certian way and respond. You think all of this is inevitable, you think these index cards you have are you because they are being pulled up and used unconsciously before you have time to notice. The problem is that you didnt write the index cards in your mind that you are using, someone else did. Your parents taught you how to interpret, feel and respond to situations, capitalist society, TV, school etc. No expert formed your automatic index cards sooo thats why they are a mess, but what can you expect right we needed something to get started. NOW, you can pull up those index cards in your mind and rewrite them, thats what actualization means. For example something happens, your work doesnt look ¨perfect¨what does your old index card set tell you this means? And how are you supposed to feel about that? And what should you do? I could guess it might go like this,¨ My work doesnt look perfect - this means I am not good enough - I feel bad because I am not perfect like I am supposed to be - I am going to get mad at myself for that and try again to get this done right. ¨ Sorry if my example isnt quite right, you need to investigate what your own mind is telling you, I dont know about that. So you can step back now, take a breath of fresh air you see the process and you dont like the programmed index cards you have. BUT how to change them we must learn. First I like to go back into my memory and find out where exactly these concepts I learned came from. This dispells the myth that they are ÿou. No these things you just learned. Forgive those who taught you this, they were just trying to do their best at the time, let them go, you are in charge now. Now in order to go on you cant just erase what you have there without replacing it with something else. Here is where you need recommendations. Mine are Nonviolent Communication books and videos, Restitution by Diane Gossen. So you need to find out what your cards say now, where they came from and rewrite them. These mental cards you have were written over a long period of time and you are used to using them, your ego even defends them fiersely because they have kept you alive. But dont worry there are many better options for any aspect of your identity. My identity would say ¨My work isnt perfect, but neither is anyone elses so its normal and human. I could improve it with more time and patience or leave it as it is if its not truely important. I am proud I have gotten this far and I know with practice I will master any work I feel like trying. ¨ Your new paper index cards should have on the back your old way of interpreting, way you were taught to feel and your learned automatic response, also who you are quoting( copying). On the other side write how you want to interpret the situation so that you feel good about it, how you want to feel and you want to respond. These new ideas will always be open to improving by trying out something new. Then this is the most important thing, the amount that the new ideas will feel comfortable and become automatic depends on the amount that you experience them. You have to practice, and engrain the new ways just as you engrained the old ones over time. Your entire identity and experience can be changed this way. The identity is a game now you know the rules, take it easy and enjoy being a beginner and seeing yourself improve. Being serious, important, perfect, go against beginners in any game so be careful of that and enjoy.