ryoko

First thing. You misunderstood the term regression. Or may be you can't see it yet. A stage Green person doesn't go into a boxing ring and fight, unless he's already stage red too. For a purely stage Green person, the expression of red comes in different forms. It can be sticking to his community and values despite the hatred from society, etc etc. A stage blue/orange person cannot endure this for various reasons. But they can endure other things. Why do you think that is? They all have red in them already. Just think about an astrologer who is risking his life studying heliocentrism, in the 18th CE. Copernicus is just the last in the line, there's many who came before him and lost their heads simply because of researching something considered heresy. They show immense grit for pursuit of truth. All of these are expressions of red But if they already have red in them, why the talk of integration at all? think about it. --- Something Important: Spiral Dynamics is false. It's not true that blue is higher than red or red is lower than yellow. It's a false notion. And climbing up the spiral is a fallacy. Because there is no up and down. Spiral Dynamics is at best "map fragments which are drawn by a kid", you won't get a complete map by putting it together, human nature is something which cannot be mapped, it's complexity, you can't reduce it through maps, this structure doesn't allow for maps(Imagine trying to map 4D using 1D logic). But the reason we can predict large groups using spiral dynamics is, because of standardization/industrialization and a myriad of other reasons, humans are not human anymore. This is the reason why Spiral Dynamics is very effective for West.

That's a regression. What stage red expresses itself through is one thing. Because they don't know any better. Integration is about getting to the core of it. Try seeing it through NOT the lens of it's expressions.

Disagree. What he mentioned is a cruder version of something very potent. Feeling your own death is a powerful technique. In the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, this is method 28. "SUPPOSE YOU ARE GRADUALLY BEING DEPRIVED OF STRENGTH OR OF KNOWLEDGE. AT THE INSTANT OF DEPRIVATION, TRANSCEND"

Pain. Build tolerance for pain. That's the core of red. And not just physical. You don't have to engage in physical activities if it doesn't serve your purpose. Build tolerance for pain where it matters for you. And don't turn red into a sharade of tattoos and cockfight bets. It's an insult to red.

Brainstorming

You clearly undermined the values the project is built on. Instead of distorting this into your "dumb revolution with shotguns", how about we see it for what it is? I'm imagining a scenario where that is the case, what does it take to get there. IDK yet. But we'll see.

See you in a thousand years.

@UnbornTao I've been following their articles on different topics to understand their perspectives better, their approach isn't as romantic as it might sound from Youtube content. Sowing seeds of true essence is a vital step before getting into the practicalities. You have to go "through" Green to reach the other end.

Bjorn, don't stop at thought experiments. Alternative systems like that of Venus Project can work way better for the world. Sad thing, the current systems like Nations/Capitalism are sentient and it doesn't like getting destroyed. The reality check is, to see if there's enough energy going into the development of an alternate system, possibly the efforts of majority and surrender of government for greater good. I'd argue most of Leo's takes on the post are horseshit. That's not how you build something new. That's not how you approach something novel. It's clear Leo doesn't want anything to change. I mean imagine the cities getting demolished, private properties getting not private anymore. It threatens his survival.

That's one way to avoid confrontation

It's not enough to run it, people will be pissed at it being so good, and it will self destruct.

@Alexop You don't understand the first thing about "Community". Perhaps you were never part of one, before.

your intent! how can you be so blind about it? Nobody is dismissing growth here. You just do not see anyone's intent for what it is. Perhaps it's your environment, and the choices you had to make to survive. 🤔 I knew someone personally who would take courses from these money gurus for insane amounts and receive no value even in their courses. But pretend like it's high value. It pains to accept the reality, after you've paid a considerable sum. Sunken Coast Fallacy. Here's what happened to his business; he's also labelled as a scammer now. Simply because of deploying sales tactics he learnt from these gurus. It was a gradual process. There's value in his content as well. He's got a unique mind, but what good is it when he is stuck with these manipulative practices. His new business endeavours are failing, because of his karma. It's interesting how people self deceive themselves thoroughly when it comes to survival. Worse thing, these people end up becoming salesmen or sales coaches or something closely related. Everyone who works for him is now a sales person of somesort. Talk about turning programmers into salesmen. Such gross dynamics. The only thing you get from these guys is learn how to become just like them. And this is exactly what they want. Why else do you think those sales gurus show off their lifestyle to you?

@MightyMind Your trauma is uniquely yours.

I totally understand your view on guardrails. It's habitual fallback. That's what we are used to in the current times. It's just too absurd to make any sense. But hey, human beings aren't logical creatures, capable of logic, but not the default. Hence my emphasis on better systems. We shouldn't be feeling guilty about participating in mainstream ways of the world. Honestly, capitalism is making it hard for me to meaningfully contribute to the society. I say this with a heavy heart. Look for instance, your comment on DEI, you just want to have a prosperous environment in your home, but you're being guilt tripped by the comments. I say both are wrong. Just expand your home to include everyone. There's no other way. This logic expands to almost every aspect of our current systems. It perpetuates this suffering for self(whole world) the more we are in denial of certain fundamental realities.

the point is, we shouldn't be thinking along the lines of guardrails. That's what religion does. It tries to control people morally. It won't work for long. Human beings evolve beyond it quickly. Whatever have high maintenance, it's bad design. Guardrails by design are a bad design. Here's an interesting experiment conducted on AI on maximizing score in a boat racing game. There's different ways to score points; avoiding obstacles, winning the race, etc etc. But the way it found to maximize score is to go straight ahead and hit the immediate obstacle, so it gets point for trying, and the game restarts, this when repeated is able to score points more predictably than winning the game through effort. Corruption is a symptom, of the game. It exists because the game's architecture allows it, no amount of punishment/guardrails/guilt tripping will prevent humans from being corrupted.

The whole point of implementing guardrails is to see it fail. Sooner the better.

you missed the whole point. guardrails = patch work better systems = architecture which is "actually" better What do I mean by that? Think about it like this, "if we build this system, how worse can we game it?" , and go from there. When we were building Capitalism and currency by sheer accidental iteration of what was before, did we take into account the human nature of greed? The question is laughable. Human beings will optimize for what's the path of least resistance when it comes to large groups. So, the way Capitalism is meant to be played is by being greedy and hoarding as much as possible. That's the most likely path, if you now start to impose morals into this and start talking about oh it's immoral, you're just building obstacles for yourself.

The world is an unequal place, resource allocation is stagnant and perverted. This invariably creates issues, scarcity drives people to crimes, distorts their sense of survival into something ugly. It's not a problem which is seeking some hotfix, it's the symptom of the very system's existence, it's the hidden cost, a hidden requirement for it to keep functioning. These problems are not something we should tackle morally, human beings cannot empathize. The solution is to design efficient system so that we do not create scenarios for those problems to occur, our systems are simply inefficient to carry us further, it may be better than previous iteration, but not good enough. And the worse part? The systems in place are normalized and taken for granted, even thoughts like this are seen as some alien bullshit. Because to observe it, you need some distance. Here's the deal, the system in place will make sure nobody will have that breathing room to see it, even if they can see it clearly, the system has been made immutable by design. I don't think we humans are capable of true empathy. If we were truly empathizing with victims of war, starvation, poverty, we wouldn't be operate functionally, so we let it recede into the background, that's just how human beings can operate optimally. I think we don't need to be empathizing with those who are at in those scenarios, that's doing nothing. The first step would be to evolve enough to see, this damage is self damage. Your potential for causing others harm is the extent of how much self damage you can tolerate.

Perhaps I can explain in a more sensible way. Imagine slavery, but they take good care of you, you get time for rest, holidays, you get spending rights, a shelter, a partner. But it's still slavery, just made more efficient and irresistible. The only way to get rid of it, is by uprooting it from the lowest level possible. Of course how it happens is subject to debate, but let's not beat around the bush. It's like having a bad OS and you're trying to fix it by writing binaries to solve specific problems which shouldn't exist in the first place, it will patch it to some extent, and even have a good time if there's no evolution, but that's not the case. So, all these attempts at fixing a broken structure is futile. It's a temporary solution, a patch. Nobody is even seeing the real problem. It's not some new age concept which no human had ever thought of before. But, many things simply won't happen because it's not "profitable". The solution is not to find ways to bring about profit. The solution is to uproot the system which have profit as a requirement.

you're still locked in the context. get out!

Look, the problem is not just you. Anyone who is forced to prioritize a country and it's people is just symptoms of a bad structure. The notion of countries are pointless, but someone/groups profits from it. A century ago, colonization was the evil, the evil of this century is the existence of countries, and the existence of inefficient mediums like money.

@Leo Gura Have you watched Childhood's End?

@AION No, rules are one thing, but the content itself is not something you can get hold off unless you are already in inner circles of respective communities and know your way around, or you are lucky enough to get it from darkweb. All of which has nothing to do with AI. It's just you and information. AI is merely synthesizing information which is "present"

Here's the deal, no matter what you practice, it doesn't make you a good person, it can make you capable and efficient, but your intent matters way more. Here's the trap. You treat "real world practical success" as a way to extract as much value from others. Tai Lopez is a well known scammer, never stopped to look at his intent and delusions? Anyone can inflate their content's worth, in the name of positioning and marketing. This affinity tells a lot about you. For you to even take that guy seriously, you have to be operating on the same level. This goes to show all your internal works have failed you. Time to re-spect your life.