Martin123

Dude you even apologized to me for preaching in a msg and 10minutes after that u were back at it again. LIKE WTF

Again, agree over all, however... The "healing of the ego" aka building a new house, since the last one was on fire, IS part of the path if you are walking int correctly. but egos like to skip this part And they go like. K.. Enlighttenment!! OH I SOO KNOW WHAT IT IS!! IMA GET IT @Dodoster (not pointing any fingers but... oops I am) But no... you know shit, you know nothing, you just switched one dysfunctional belief system, replaced it with deluded spiritual beliefs, and never dealt with the core of your wounded ego.

@Dodoster duuuuuude. Like. Seriously stahp. You intellectualize enlightenment and then preach it. Justh...chill... do your self-enquiry... see where it takes you... talk to me in a year.

@poimandres Ok.

Need a reason to get out of bed you say? Why? Isn't it the natural aliveness that should be kicking us out of bed? The miracle of life? The absolutely unbelievable paradox of existence? The joy of being able to open and close our eyes? Feel in control? Of what exactly? Of your life that will last a few decades, and after another a few decades all you "create" shall turn to dust? Life becomes a canvas and you become the creator? Oh my man isn't it the other way around? Isn't life the painter, and we are the canvas? hehehe

@poimandres So does it really grow the businessman? Being stressed? Chasing his imaginary house of cards happiness, fearing he won't achieve it? Wouldn't he become more successful, more at peace, and grow more, if he just let go? Why shall we be stressed when we are mastering something? It is illogical. It is joy, it is one of the fundamentals of being alive. Is a baby stressed when it is learning how to walk? Or is it laughing along the way. Is a dog stressed when it's mastering the fetch game, or is he having tremendous fun along the way? The idea of stress growing us. Isn't it a limiting one? What if growth could be achieved by merely fun. What I don't condition my growth on stress. What if I rid myself of the belief that "good things" are achieved through "hardship". What if I let go of the conditioning where I carrot and stick myself towards all my goals in life?

Now that is interesting. What happens if your path of mastery involves mastering stress? :-)

@poimandres I believe that stress caused by unrealistic goals is of different nature.

@poimandres Is stress and depression a student's necessity to become a master?

You absolutely sure about that?

Martin123

Clarification, something I feel hasn't been quite understood in the post. the For now! part in the title was quite important. Make enlightenment your long-term goal. Make shadow-work your short-term goal. In my view shadow-work is the beginning of the path. Many people opposed to me that you can be on the path even when your ego is weak, yes but the ego would be healed in the process. Healed though to some extent! Not necessarily fully (purified). But let's be honest, if you're suicidal, you better drop the suicidal part of yours first, then you wanna see the truth. The Eckhart Tolle type of enlightenment happened in the extreme suffering of ego. Once you decide for the path, you gradually decrease your suffering. Making it very unlikely for the ego to just pop out of a sudden (like with Tolle).

Also no, the thread doesn't serve any purpose at all. I just wrote it on a whim. It exploded and got amusing.

@SBB4746 I can only offer what I see, never less, never more. Even if I were enlightened, I would be offering what I see. I see this. I see traps, delusion, confusion, escape, suffering and irresponsibility. So I offer my views. take it or leave it.

@SBB4746 Does your answer serve any purpose what so ever?

@Peace and Love Well then start with a mindfulness practice where you don't judge your emotions, slowly work your way towards emotional release. There is no shame in criyng, or any other emotion! :-) Tell your therapist about it, cry with her/him in the office, it should be a safe space. Allow your emotions. I give you permission to be sad. You have earned it.

@Dodoster My dude you preach detachment yet you are attached. I wish you all the best, and hope you won't rest your head too long in the attachment. It doesn't serve your goals. (It is only because I have been in the attachment period, and there is a good reason why we attach. Because the second we start detaching, a lot of pain starts coming in. Do you know what that's called? Shadow-work, wink wink :p) peace out.

@Dodoster Idd, good old J-Dog was a wise man. So what about emotional suffering? Which is happening on biological level just like physical pain. What about that one? Also, is there a purpose to it? etc. etc. You answered one question very indirectly. Now what is your direct experience? end of suffering? non-doer? Infinite nature of the self? Infinite reality? Nothingness? Non-duality? Or is it just belifes you took on, and attached yourself to? Now if it is the attachment case tell me. Is there a difference between being attached towards spiritual beliefs or other beliefs?

That is not a genuine deep enough answer. You lay such an answer and yet you try to intellectualize what enlightenment is and isn't. That is as if you were eating burgers and preaching veganism. What does this sentence mean? Do you have a direct experience of that? When I cut off my arm, am I suffering because of lack of realization? Is there ever end to suffering? Have you experienced it? Is there a function to suffering? Other than to realize one is not the doer? Is one really not the doer? Who is then "the one" if not the doer? Is there a doer? Is there action and consequence? You don't question deeply enough, your pursuits will lead you astray unless you give your beliefs up. You are emotionally attached to them, do you see the paradox? You emotionally attached yourself to the idea of detachment. That is the reason I started the thread. For people like you. That is what one calls spiritual ego. No closer to enlightenment then a neurotic businessman pursuing success in a corporate world.

@Peace and Love Peoplepleasing. We all have suffered from that to some extent. It is a result of parents and teachers carrot and sticking us instead of unconditional love. The solution is to dig up the part of your shadow self, that craves the approval. And then let it cry. Let it cry for days without judgement. how: When you feel like getting validation, go within and enquire. Who are you that is seeking validation? Be kind, be gentle, for it is only a lost child that must be found again.

@Leo Gura Thanks that's what I've been wondering about for some time.

@electroBeam Sup My dude! =D Surrender. Surrender to your experience. It is not random. Nothing that ever happens to you is random. It is the beautiful expression of life, as you are. Life will guide itself through you. You cannot control it. You will not control it. But life cannot lay on you anything you wouldn't handle. Give it up. Life has its own ideas of what it wants to do with you. You will not do anything in this process, unless you wanna stop the process. Life will flower by itself, you only need to allow it. Allow life, allow release, allow experience, allow the present moment. Your inner demons are life, just like bliss. It will get balanced out, as soon as you allow, the magic will happen.

@Aware Wow. Thank you for your input. I can't help it but I feel kindness behind all of your posts. Thanks for uplifting this thread, your post touched me.

@Leo Gura Would you please elaborate on the therapeutic effects of self-enquiry? When is it damaging, or is it ever, if done well?

The importance of trust in life. The faith of higher consciousness working its ways, and the importance of surrender and dropping resistance.