WeCome1

Yes, he has got some impressive credentials, indeed. And also is pleasant to listen to. I'm glad I followed your link to his full interview before you deleted it. It really provided the necessary context.

I'm not very well versed in Buddhist terminology. Are the "4 negations" above the exact equivalent of the Vedantic "neti-neti", or do they imply something extra? Also, the term "Shunya/Emptiness" has always rubbed me the wrong way, too positively loaded for my nihilistic tastes, but now I'm just rambling.

Which part? What is the value of being able to sit and blank out of existence for 6 days?

The hell happened to @Squeekytoy? He used to be quite active, but now all his posts are gone. It looks like he started some heavy argument with @Breakingthewall, but it's now difficult to decipher with half the posts gone.

Promise?

Because I'm an idiot and quoted from your quote of Razard.

If you pay attention, you will notice that @Javfly33 uses "happening" as a synonym to "being/is", "exists" and "appears". Do they also require time and space - or are you just ignoring the inconvenient parts again? C'mon, you can do better than that! And we can't have THAT, right?

I used to fall asleep every night for the best part of 2021 to the soothing sounds of "... To what appearance the appearance that appears appears to appear to?.." Good times No intention to derail the thread, but I just want to take this opportunity to say that you are cool, @Water by the River . You and your formatting

All the feels, together, all at once, and up to 11. Lyrics translation is provided in the description. Whoa, this was unexpectedly good.

There is a pretty cool old school documentary on this topic called "Hooked: Illegal Drugs & How They Got That Way". There are 4 episodes, they can be found on YouTube separately, but here are permanent links to IMDB: S01E01 Marijuana and Meth S01E02 Opiates S01E03 Cocaine S01E04 LSD and MDMA Basically, all major illegal drugs became controlled substances because general public has too little self-control to be trusted using them freely. That, and the Nixon's dirty move against black pacifists. And psychedelics were little studied at the time but still got banned alongside "the big ones" for good measure: a drug is a drug, right?

I'm in tears, man. This is worthy of a tattoo.

Well, Shapiro is at least capable of cohesive reasoning and argumentation most of the time; Razard is more like Ben's "woke" opponents who would lynch mob you for not using their preferred pronouns. I mean, @SoonHei (god rest his soul) uses a metaphor: @Dodo replies, that, basically, his experience feels too real to be compared to VR, in his opinion (a fair point to make): After which, they respectfully agree that it was just a metaphor, as good as any other, no big deal: And all is well for 3 years, until Razard comes along and does what he always does: derails the thread and attempts to shove his valuable Truth opinion down people's throats, since they aren't awake enough to see for themselves: However, Dodo has THE AUDACITY to prefer a different definition of "virtual reality": THE BALLZ on this man, amirite? I have seen some truly fucked up shit, but to draw the line between VR and "consensus reality" where "real" people appear strongly real and self-aware beyond reasonable doubt - and "VR" people are obviously just pixels?.. Man, Dodo, you kiss yo mama wid dat mouf?.. Well, you brought it unto yourself: You expect that there will follow a conclusive proof that images on a computer screen DO in fact experience life? You fool! Razard hits your delusional ass with a non-sequitur about how apparent phenomena in both "consensus reality" and dreams are made of the same stuff, as if there were a single person on this forum who has not heard that a hundred times: Translogical argumentation, fellas. Watch and learn. In addition to all that, Dodo clearly stated that he has a history of mental problems, as did SoonHei. What seems to be a productive course of action? Of course, doubling down on solipsist rhetoric, because there isn't enough of it on the forum already. So no, he isn't a Ben Shapiro. He is half a walking non-sequitur and half a Leo quotes bullshit-bingo; but quite harmless: notice how he replies to everybody, but once CarlRichard brings up a valid point - it's crickets. We used to run a small but quite lovely forum back in the day; we banned spiritual ChatGPTs like him on sight, and it kept things civilized and productive. But being Awake (TM) doesn't necessarily mean being useless: he is a prime example for us all that a mind cannot be transcended before it learns thinking straight. There is an old soviet joke, goes something like this:

But that is not what the message of Mahayana Buddhism is about. This is: Buddhist philosophy has been evolving for 2500 years - and so has their idea of what is the ultimate attainment. Early Buddhist schools like Theravada set the goal of realizing one's true "buddha nature" by overcoming kleshas ("poisons of the mind") that obscure it. Basically, a permanent ego-death, which, in turn, ends the dukkha (suffering discontentment) and reveals that "samsara" has been "nirvana" all along. Not unlike the post-nirvikalpa-samadhi state in yoga/vedanta philosophy; or the final 10th season of the zen bull, if you prefer. Mahayana does not reject this attainment - it merely states that it's not the ultimate one, and expands upon it. Remember how Leo likes to say that "enlightenment is not GOD-realization"? Well, the way I see it, Mahayana's ultimate attainment, Prajnaparamita (perfect wisdom, absolute knowledge) and the accompanying Karuna (compassion, (Love?..)) - is something along these lines. And how does one develop perfect love and wisdom? Certainly not by blissing out in sitting meditation - but by engaging with the world, even though it is now clearly seen as illusory. And in what way would one engage with "the sentient beings" of this world in order to develop perfect love; what is the one most loving thing to do? Using Upaya ("skillful means") to rid them of their apparent suffering certainly comes to mind. I've heard that the misconception about "Mahayana bodhisattvas rejecting enlightenment" is mostly common in the Western academia - and mostly due to overemphasizing this one Ksitigarbha Sutra, where Buddha tells Ksitigrabha about the merits of dedicating ones efforts to the good of all beings, and how it leads to unimaginable levels of bliss - and Ksitigrabha takes it to the extreme; thus forming "the ideal of a bodhisattva".

I mean, if you think about it - there's never really been a complaint; it's overwhelmingly life-changing. I never took Aya myself, but a friend of mine recently did. The previous 5 years of pretty hardcore spirituality, shamanism, psychedelics and what not, with all the "insights" - went completely out of the window in an evening. He found his peace and love for life; he is crystal clear in his purpose, and basically 100x more chill. But he describes the difference between taking a psychedelic at home and going through the Ayahuasca ceremony as one between taking a plane to Shanghai and walking there across Eurasia; so there's that.

My bad. Walk me through this one. Why, tho? You literally said you didn't care.

Ok, my bad, "practical" wasn't exactly what I meant. It's more along the lines of "science can only make claims about what IS - not about what OUGHT". And, in this sense, I certainly agree with you that knowing "how things are" improves one's quality of life. But it doesn't tell us anything about WHAT we should do. And that's only relative knowledge. If we talk about absolute realizations - everything above is even more true: yes - having a glimpse at God changes this "game character" here, and how he responds; and no - having a glimpse of God does not imply this or that course of action. On the contrary - it reveals the total absence of any agent whatsoever. And what is the "game character" to do about that? Love more? Or go full-on Joker? Or proceed as before?.. I dunno.

Some of my most life-changing shroom trips were actually outside (in a big city - but at a time when it wasn't that crowded, think "late Tuesday evening") and with a group of friends, most of whom are deep into psychonautics an consciousness work. But I can see how it could potentially go sideways if it's more of a "broooo let's pop some mushies on the beach man, I heard this stuff's mind-blowing" kind of situation. Doesn't mean it will, but it could. But if your bros are chill and mature you will most likely be good. There is a certain synergy effect to mushrooms: if you are taking them collectively, people sort of "speed each other up", so the subjective effect of 1.5g can feel more something like 2.5g, keep that in mind. Also, if you are going for a "mind-blowing experience", then an option to sit/lay down should be readily available at any time. In general, it is probably a bit counter-productive to go for some "grand metaphysical earth-shattering realizations" in a social setting; however, I assure you, the deep appreciation of "mundane" things and quality time with your people can be equally, if not more, epic sometimes. 2 grams dried sounds like a plan. Have fun!

If I may. That's the thing right there, you've said it yourself: you are not seeing Razard's perspective. And that's okay, because there isn't one - there's actually two perspectives mixed together. And that's exactly where the real Self-Deception (TM) hides. By the way, just for the sake of mental exercise - without reading further, in your own words, how would YOU formulate Razard's OP position? Like, in 1-2 sentences, what IS the essence of his communication, in your opinion? So, see, a man experiences some absolute states of consciousness and realizes that I = You = One = God = Love = Truth, or some such. It's all one big total illusory appearance that sometimes takes a form of a person suffering - but, in actuality, in the absolute sense, nobody has ever suffered, yay! There is a movie about a flood - but the screen is not wet, right? However, deconstruct me this. How come that, when I kidnap Razard's little sister and put him on a video call with her, while me and my buddies Bogdan and Dmitry take turns at raping her in all sorts of creative ways - he suddenly DOES care about her suffering, and, instead of indirectly and subtly nudging her towards realizing her true nature and absolute sovereignty with his peaceful presence and clever rhetoric, he finds himself taking practical steps towards finding me, stopping his poor sister's apparent suffering and, perhaps, cutting my d**k off with a chainsaw. Why does he bother with all that? Is he not God-Realized (TM) enough? Did he read his Bhagavad Gita upside down? Maybe not. Maybe it's because, while the Absolute be Absolutin' itself in itself all through itself, Razard, with his apparent life, has nothing to do with it. In his actual perspective, whether he admits it or not, he is living in a material world and he is a material boy. And his lofty advice, based on the absolute realization, is not in any way applicable in this relative domain. Which is the only domain in which any sort of advice is, in fact, required. My point is, I guess, this. Any Absolute Truth (TM) is a thing unto itself and only "valuable" for itself - it does not have any "practical" application in the relative domain - if it does, you are missing the whole point. It doesn't imply that a person must act upon it in any particular sort of way. But if you feel the urge to be good, kind and compassionate - don't let your Understanding (TM) stand in the way. Not worth it.

Ok, this would have been funny, if it weren't really dangerous. I've seen more than my share of this kind of backwards rhetoric - and the very real suffering it perpetuates. So I have to call bullshit. * Proceeds with three paragraphs on how to trick people into suffering less. * ... Go ahead. Tell a meta-joke to a person with depression or mental illness. Compliment a crippled veteran with PTSD. Be patient with war refugees. I'm sure cows in a factory farm will appreciate your graceful presence oh-so-fucking-much. People who suffer (and I mean REALLY suffer - and not "somewhat inconvenienced") don't need to "awaken" to some higher level of consciousness or jump up a stage on some Spiral Dynamics - what they really need is a fucking break. Someone who will take responsibility and carry them on his shoulders from the neck-deep shit they've found themselves in. People suffer because they ARE helpless, that's what suffering IS - the despair of the apparent helplessness. Even if the problem is indeed in their head - for them, at that moment, it is equivalent to being in a real prison cell; if it weren't - it wouldn't have been a problem in the first place. What people would really appreciate is YOU rising up to the challenge: meeting them where they're at, doing something tangible to remove the cause of their pain, so they can catch a break and regroup. And, heck, maybe even a simple act of genuine compassion, if it's not to much to ask of a God-realized person. Man, some people really need to touch some grass, pull their head out of their privileged spiritual ass and maybe have another look at the unfair inescapable brutality that the majority of the world is facing every day. Just an opinion.

Yeah, I did some digging a couple years ago as to what science had to say about this; nothing interesting turned up - it is indeed a very little studied subject. My theory is that the consciousness is a pattern recognition/abstraction machine - it's just something it inherently does, it's hardwired at the very core. So, when a sensory overload begins during the trip, on one hand, that pattern recognition tends to default to simpler geometric forms in order to keep up (like, you know, in extreme situations, you recognize forms and movement faster than colors, because it gave your ancestors evolutionary advantage back in the day); and, on the other hand, is able to recognize more patterns where it previously wouldn't. Hence, everything gradually turns into one big fractal. And, since reality is indeed structured in this very deliberate, almost mathematical, orderly manner all the way from top to bottom - that fractal representation is not at all surprising: you are just becoming conscious of more of it.

Haha, that one's on point! Personally, I'd define "enlightenment" narrowly as a "permanent removal of false self-identification". There is a persistent illusion of the subject being within the body and having the body; and then there is a whole "descriptive layer" of ideas in the mind, supporting that illusion (the false self-identification in question). The illusion itself, as far as I can tell, cannot be removed permanently - but it can be escaped temporarily, which allows to see the true state of things. I like the analogy with a sunset: the Sun appears to set behind the horizon; we can go to orbit and see directly, how things actually are (experience a high-consciousness state); but then, once we return to the surface, the Sun appears to set exactly the same as before - however, the whole thing has forever been recontextualized in our mind; the whole construct of "the sun - setting - in the west" is thrown away. Of course, it can still be used in daily interactions for convenience. Also, for some (for most, actually), the recontextualization might be too radical - so several trips to orbit might be necessary for the message to sink in, so to speak. So, as the result of all that, the non-dual nature of reality is radically more often and more easily apparent in daily life. In my experience, it is a very gradual process; to the point that it's almost impossible to imagine, how one used to imagine all that duality 24/7 - but also not sure how exactly one got here to the present mode of perception. And, obviously, there are infinite other aspects of Truth/Reality one can become conscious of, to various degrees of depth. This doesn't make the "enlightenment" realization any less valid, final or total.

Riiiiight?!

Isn't it enough if we just pass the Turing's test consistently?

I don't. But maybe ask around more - I'm sure there is still someone NOT awake on this forum somewhere