theleelajoker

Great question. Remained unanswered so far as I can see?

If not action, then what is the criteria for you to be enlightened?

I think it's a good question. My take is that there are some "rules" to this reality that are - for humans - more or less impossible to break/bend. We need oxygen to be alive, gravity eg. Some can be bend more easily. Placebo effect for instance. Other mechanism are up to our imagination. How we see others, relationships, ourself comes to mind

Like that analogy. Only addition is that it is not only language but all ways we use to express ourselves.

So while I agree, I don't do that consciously. Or at least I haven't found a way to consciously manifest people, event and stories. Don't even know if I want that, absolute control is boring I guess?! So what remains? 1) Try to make the unconscious conscious to get more control 2) Totally let go of control. Go with everything that is happening bc I "know" that deep inside it's me, even if I don't "know" right now 3) Balance in between 1) and 2) 4) ? [Please fill in]

@Princess Arabia I like your idea. Going for real experience instead of stories and hearsay. For me, no I haven't seen that. Neither the process, nor a "final" enlightened person. Moreover 1) A person on a screen doing a video is just that. People only show what they want to show. Who knows what is going on with the persons life outside the video. 2) Same for any book, or audio or whatever 3) For me, the real measuring stick is seeing a person in live in situations that are difficult for him/her. See what and how they do it. "Strictly speaking, there is no enlightenment person but only enlightened action." (don't remember source of quote)

OK thx for clarification. I get your point. Also not being a bit fan of idealistic ideas. I just realized that I spent a lot more time alone than I used to in other periods of my life. (still have a gf and close friendships, though. Not many, but some)

1. Bold marked - this just made me realize one (major?) reasons why I was much less social in recent time. I was doubting myself, but I can see now how my tendency to loneliness is a good thing 2. Can you elaborate on the "Individualism downplays the role of other people in our lives, because... it has to. In that sense the paradigm is wrong." please?

What if starting tomorrow, one pretends that Life is like living lucidly in a Dream? Imagine that life is lived like this: What would you do? What dreams would you fulfill for others and for yourself?

Yeah, I agree. For whatever reason, it's doing > knowing, doing > thinking, doing > understanding. Thoughts etc seem just to be a support wheel, the same way you learn how to ride a bike.

Yeah I get you. I guess I was projecting a bit with the idea if helping others. For me it helps if I feel understood. So I want to talk and teach about these things. Which means I need to help people understand what's actually going on. Which fails in 99% of cases. It's sad, but on a personal level, there is actually nobody I can talk completely honestly about all this. I hinted sth with our very experienced Vipassana teacher and even he did "pretend" not to know what I am talking about. The false self is really incredible strong...

I just came back today from a 10 Day meditation retreat (Vipassana after Goenka). I went deeper than I ever went before. Many things they say in the instructions manifested step by step. And I was and I still am a very long distance from further steps and deeper experiences they describe. Still, the insights are invaluable. A lifetime of wisdom compressed in 10 days. I open this forum and see this thread. I go through all the posts from the beginning until now. Pretty much everything @Breakingthewall says resonates as true for me, very much aligned with my experience. @Breakingthewall I admire your patience, again and again discussing, explaining, taking up points, giving examples. I guess reality leaves you with no choice but to do so, creating a strong desire to awaken people, to break through barriers. Your posts helped me (a lot) and surely helped others but due to the nature of this forum a lot of your energy might unfortunately being wasted. Intellect is very limited and understanding fragmented at this mental level. I am at a point where I see that direct experience is what helps most. Direct experience through meditation. Slow, steady progress. Psychedelics are a dangerous game, it shocks the organism and many can't take it. For everybody looking for answers I can only say one thing: Divert attention inside and you are likely to eventually find all answers you are looking for. Edit: Two things that help most: 1) direct experience and 2) a good sense of humor

OK, that left an impression on me. Nice post.

For me, truth has a very practical purpose: It's incredibly exhausting to pretend that things are other than they are. And it leads nowhere. I am insecure and try to pretend otherwise? People will notice anyway. So I can stop wasting my resources trying to cover this. I want to make the next step in my development? I need to accept things as they are to change them. I will not be able to change what I don't accept I want to have a fulfilling live? I need to find out what I truly want instead of chasing wishful thinking Lastly and most importantly: In my experience, life mirrors and reflects me. So if for instance I want to find the right partner for me, I need to send out actions that are as authentic and truthful as possible. Because if I don't, life will always reflect someone that does not reflect my true desires and needs. It will reflect a fake image of who I want to be instead of who I am. Self-sabotage at its best.

Bold marked by me. On a scale on 1-10, how sure are you about that?