Strannik

Show me how exactly how the Schrodinger equation (and not any other kind of equation) follows from "Love". OK, if you are God, then prove it that you have no problem with suffering. Turn on the stove and put your hand on it. Your body-mind will suffer and try to reject it, but you do not reject suffering if you are God that has no problem with suffering, so keep it on the stove. Let me know how it worked for you.

So, here is the summary: - I am the Infinite Omniscient and Omnipotent God-Consciousness-Love, I can imagine and dream any dreams I want! - And why these dreams always structured according to mathematical equations? And why there is so much suffering experienced in these dreams? - I dunno....

The brute fact of your direct experience is that certain phenomena follow exactly the Schrodinger equation. Surely it is irrelevant to understanding what Consciousness IS. But it is relevant to understanding what it DOES, and how and why it manifests certain phenomena such that they always follow this equation. But you are avoiding this question because you have no answer. In other words, you know what Consciousness is, but has no clue why and how it is dreaming what it is dreaming, silly. And why could not Consciousness be perfectly alive and dreaming its dreams without any suffering? So, it's helpless and clueless because it's endless. Poor Consciousness ... So, Consciousness is forever alone with nothing "outside" of it, it is forever helpless to change its dreaming or stop it, forever unable to understand why it is dreaming what it is dreaming with all of the experience of suffering in it. I don't see any "Bliss" and "Love" in it, it's actually quite a miserable way of existence. May be that is why it hides from itself always trying to pretend to be someone else?

OK, then IMO "love", "truth", "oneness" (and I would add the "infinity") are just like "referring to non-duality as capitalism." As a result, people get confused and stuck clinging to their experiences or ideas of "love", "truth", "oneness" or "infinity" without realization that all these ideas and experiences are just that - only ideas and experiences, they are just part of the same dream.

IMO "love", "truth", "oneness" are equally toxic.

I was not asking to explain Oneness. I was asking to explain how and why the Oneness manifests forms exactly according to the Schrodinger equation. And also, why it manifests it such that there is a humongous amount of suffering in it which it is unable to stop. Apparently, Oneness can know that it is Oneness, yet it has no clue why it manifests forms in a way like that. Clueless and helpless Oneness. In other words, dreaming that is dreaming about itself that it is "God & Absolute Truth". I think it's just funny... I've seen too many spiritual gurus resorting to this argument, but it only works on naive seekers.

That's right, and that includes the realization that the realization of the "Infinite Absolute God" is also just part of the dream. And when that falls away, all that remains is just THIS: pure and immediate experience of suchness-presence-nowness-awareness here and now manifested in the flow of forms and phenomena (with nothing "Infinite", "Loving" or "Absolute" about it).

that's just an English idiom, don't be so picky. I don't see anything "crazy" in it either.

Apart from fun, all I'm saying is that you can go further from clinging to your beliefs in the "Infinite Absolute", but only if you want to. I'm just showing you the way. But if you are happy with your beliefs, then who am I to tell you not to cling to them?

I'm just having fun here, sorry if it sounded rude to you I'm used to Zen practice which pointers to our false beliefs can be quite rude at times.

yeah, that's good too. I'm drawing in watercolor right now using imagination but still don't see anything wrong with talking to myself though.

which is?

any better ideas how to spend the infinity of ever-now?

Yeah, I know, been there did that. Classical Advaita. You believe that not all God is in your direct realization (because you direct experience is always finite), so you extrapolate and construct "the rest of God" in your imagination and imagine it to be "Infinite". In your psychedelic trips you might experience some expansion of your everyday state of mind, but it still inevitably always finite, but you would think "aha, if it gets expanded further and further like that, it will eventually embrace the Infinity of God". But you can go even further (only if you want of course) and realize that such extrapolation of your direct experience is only your belief, and any labels and attributes such as "God", or "infinite" or "Absolute" or "Love" are meaningless and redundant mind constructs. They are all what happens in your conscious experience: the forms, ideas, phenomena, attributes, but they are not what reality actually is, they are only a content of your experience (no matter how euphoric or blissful or mind-expanding it may be). It is JUST suchness-nowness-presence-awareness here and now exactly how it is directly experienced empty of any attributes, and nothing else. There is nothing to believe in and nothing to cling to, not even to "Infinity" or "Absolute" or "God".

Yeah, I know, I also see sameness in everything - the same never-changing suchness, presence and awareness in every experience at the same moment of now. So what? How does it follow that this "suchness-nowness-presence-awareness" is the "Absolute" or "Infinite" or "Self"? It's JUST a pure direct experience of suchness-nowness-presence-awareness here and now exactly how it is experienced, everything else in addition to that is just our mind construct and our interpretation of it (which is nothing more than beliefs and delusions exactly as you said), and that includes any attributes to this "sameness" such as "Absolute", "Infinite", "Eternal", "Self", "Love" and so on. As a matter of the bare fact of the direct experience of this sameness, it has no such attributes.

Repeating again: If you are experiencing the actual infinity, then it must necessarily include my perceptions as well (because if it does not, then it is not the absolute infinity, but only a limited version of it). Then tell me what I am perceiving right now. If you can't, then you are fooling yourself, what you are experiencing is not infinity but only your imagination. By the way, I'm a lifetime meditator, mostly in the Buddhist tradition, but also in Advaitic and neo-advaitic. Yeah, I used to experience all the "I AM THAT" euphoria, but eventually came to realization (based on my mystical experience) that the Buddhists are closer to the truth when they deny any reality to any "absolute", "eternal", "infinite", or "self-existing". From that perspective Advaita (including Leo's teachings) does not go far enough into the realization of the nature of reality to realize that it is all emptiness, and all these experiences are just mind constructs, including the experiences of "Self" or "Absolute" or "Infinite". This realization requires very sober attitude scrutinizing all our experiences and ideas and never clinging to any beliefs or experiences no matter how euphoric or soothing they might be. Advaita and its derivatives still hold to these mind-fabricated beliefs, and so cannot be qualified as the "ultimate enlightenment" from the Buddhist point of view. Leo's teachings are nothing more than classical Advaita sprinkled with DMT trips and euphoric experiences of "halleluiah" on top of it, so essentially no different from Advaita.

Finite is what I am directly consciously experiencing here and now. The rest of what you said is your imagination and your logic and reason, and logic and reason are just another mind constructs. You cannot prove the ultimate reality with logic, because the ultimate reality (whatever it is) must be prior to logic. As I said again, if you are experiencing the actual infinity, then it must necessarily include my perceptions as well. Then tell me what I am perceiving right now. If you can't, then you are fooling yourself, what you are experiencing is not infinity but only your imagination. I know that arguing with religious beliefs is useless, they are impenetrable. But sometimes I still try...

Yeah, and the Buddhists claim that the belief in any self, be it a limited personal self, or the eternal infinite Self, is just another delusion, and so Advaita is a heresy, there is no self or Self whatsoever.

It's all a religious fairytale that you are telling yourself in your imagination. There is no evidence that absolute infinity actually exists, because our direct conscious experience is always finite, so it is in principle impossible to experience, and hence experientially prove, the existence of the absolute infinity. So, it's all only your beliefs. But I know it feels very euphoric, so why not? According to our direct experience, our consciousness has no boundaries, but that does not mean that it is "absolutely infinite". You are conflating the impossibility to find a limit with actual infinity. Example: there is no boundary that we can find in the sequence of natural numbers: no matter how many apples we have, we can always add another one. But still, the actual numbers of apples that we can experience is always finite. There is no evidence that the infinity of natural numbers as a reality actually exists.

As I said, the absolute infinity cannot have any particular attribute of "glory, or perfection, or hallelujah", because it must include all possible attributes. And I think you missed my last paragraph (I edited it at the last minute): "There is a very simple test actually. Suppose you are experiencing the actual absolute infinity right now. Then this infinity includes everything, including my own conscious experiences (my thoughts, sensations), so you also must experience what I am experiencing now. Do you? If yes, then tell me my current thoughts to prove it. But if you can't then what you are experiencing is NOT the infinity, but only your imagination of it. " But yeah, it's all "hallelujah" as you say, a religion. Sure, why not, if you want to continue fooling yourself, who is there to stop you?.

nope. First, you cannot actually experience the infinity. If you think you can than you obviously fooling yourself. And you can't define infinity in any way and limit infinity to "glory". It's all religious mumbo-jumbo. Absolute infinity cannot have any attributes (like "glory", "perfection", "love" or else). Also, since it is impossible to actually experience the infinity, there is in principle no experiential evidence that it even actually exists. It's all your religion guys. If you feel comfortable to hold to these beliefs and get so euphoric about them, then go for it, who am I to judge you? But if you really want to be honest to yourselves and try not to deceive yourself into these self-soothing beliefs, then you might think deeper about that. There is a very simple test actually. Suppose you are experiencing the actual absolute infinity right now. Then this infinity includes everything, including my own conscious experiences (my thoughts, sensations), so you also must experience what I am experiencing now. Do you? If yes, then tell me my current thoughts to prove it. But if you can't then what you are experiencing is NOT the infinity, but only your imagination of it.

If you guys would ACTUALLY experience such absolute state (instead of poetically imagining it) you would inevitably experience all the infinite terror of this absolute loneliness, helplessness and meaninglessness of such solipsistic existence. Yeah, you may say that all this "terror" is still imagined, but so al that "glory" and "love" of the absolute is imagined too. It's just experiences appearing and disappearing in Consciousness. Consciousness playing with its imaginations. So who cares? I don't see a reason to be so euphoric about it.

yeah, I know that theory, sounds very beautiful but actually makes our life meaningless. For every version of you behaving in one way there is an infinite variety of versions of you behaving in all other possible ways, good or bad, right or wrong. So what's the point doing anything? For every version of you getting enlightened there is an infinite variety of versions of you being deluded and never getting enlightened. For every version of happy you there is an infinite variety of versions of you immensely suffering. I don't see anything "glorious" about it. It's pretty meaningless actually.

OK. I appreciate Leo's poetic undertaking, although I still prefer the masterpieces of classical Advaita like Adavhuta Gita for example. Yet, to me it seems like it' s just mumbo-jumboing ourselves into the "oceanic state of oneness" with no clear explanations of why and how the Mind is dreaming what it is dreaming. Why is God is so smart to compute this dream with extremely mathematical precision down to the dreaming of the behavior of the subatomic particles, and yet it is so dumb to deceive itself to believe in the reality of the dream. Why is this so precisely mathematically designed dream is so full of stupidity, self-deception and suffering? "An illusion perfectly designed to allow you to forget for a second that you are God." - says the poem So why is God so stubbornly trying to fool itself into forgetting itself and identifying itself with figments of its own dream? And not just forget and wonder around in the dream, but suffer in that dream immensely and brutally without any way to stop the suffering? Why, after such realization of Oneness and Love, Leo is still suffering from digestive disorder and cannot stop it? Yeah, you can convince yourself to be masochistic and "love" pain and suffering without any ability to stop it. But would not it be easier to actually stop suffering, and even more, stop this entire insane self-deceptive cosmic dream, and just rest in formless state, or start dreaming something less nonsensical, less self-deceptive, bearing less suffering? God can perfectly know itself and still dream a world where it continues to know itself while playing with and enjoying infinite variety of forms with no suffering and self-deception whatsoever. But no, Infinite God cannot do it, it cannot control its own dream. Why? Leo perfectly answered this: "Somehow it all computes in the vastness of your mind." Exactly - "somehow". God has no clue how it computes its own dream and how to control it. God is indeed Absolute because it is Absolutely helpless and Absolutely clueless. Actually, there is a hypothesis to explain why: when God realized that he is completely alone for the whole eternity, there is nothing to do, nothing "outside" of him, nothing to reach to, noone to talk to, nothing to know, he experienced a psychotic breakdown and, to escape from the infinite and absolute terror of this loneliness and hopelessness, he went insane by starting a dream where he could forget the terror of that realization and by splitting into a vast number of personal perspectives (to escape from the experience of loneliness). He made this dream so that it would be very difficult to get back to that terrifying self-realization. He knew that this dream would entail a lot of suffering, but all that suffering would still be incomparably less that the infinite terror of that self-realization. Then he erased his memories and lost himself into a variety of personalities each believing in their own reality as a separate being. The God's plan for the dream was not to eventually restore the original Oneness, but to actually forever hide and self-deceive away from it. We were not supposed to get "awakened"!. Does it make any sense?

where is the poem?