Basman

Why is suffering even a problem from the perspective of enlightenment? Surely, not wanting to suffer is a human/creature bias and irrelevant to enlightenment. Just spitballing.

No not necessarily, but porn is inherently low conscious and base. There can be degrees of low consciousness in my opinion. Art, like hentai, can have aspects such as beauty which elevates it above being just porn (but only from an artistic perspective). Its also a matter of what do people want. If they want their porn raw and dirty then that is what they'll get.

This isn't how wise and spiritual people argue. Your a glorified keyboard warrior, ala Reddit, which is why I hardly take anyone seriously here. Just look how defensive you get. Of course, if you have success then loftier spiritual goals are appropriate but that is not the case for the majority. The problem is that your survival needs infect how you approach life so it is better to just be honest and take things step by step instead. That is not devilry. Devilry is abusing spirituality which is what am trying to avoid. There is too much virtue signaling going on in my opinion.

Any stories of bad wingmen?

Can you prove that suffering is a choice? I'm genuinely interested in what you think. I think most of you would benefit way more from just earning more money, getting therapy, getting laid more, living a more successful life in the conventional ways, etc. 99% of the time, the conventional works in my opinion so I'm going to promote that over lofty spiritual ideals. Spiritual fantasy gives the ego license to dabble in self-improvement without truly committing to action, so you just stay stuck spinning your wheels while fancying yourselves geniuses. What I reject is the romanticization by phonies. Most of you are naked emperors as far as I'm concerned and you are not getting an inch of credibility.

Referring to the last paragraph? What is so devilish about rejecting the notion of "spiritual salvation"? Isn't devilry when you abuse spirituality to give your ego license to act out? Maybe your just a dogmatic fool.

Your going to suffer no matter what you do in life, but there are degrees of suffering and if you live a good life then the good feelings will far outweigh the suffering. If you are going to suffer no matter what, why not throw yourself at something that excites you? Suffering can be meaningful and a learning experience, so its not all bad. By the sounds of it, you either need to grow a spine or your genuinely suffering due to some abnormality, in which case I recommend you seek help. You don't have to suffer helplessly. The problem with spirituality online is that so many of you are just seeking to escape suffering as opposed to being curios or following some kind of calling. This kind of escapism leads to so much floundering and weird fantasies that don't serve you. Enlightenment won't solve your problems.

Bad example perhaps... Not saying that porn is inherently unhealthy by the way. More so trying to illustrate sex and porn as something that is inherently base compared to other things.

Women are more socially harmonious in my opinion but the majority of philosophers and great thinkers throughout history have been men. I don't think that is evidence of men being smarter or more conscious than women in of itself but it think that women derive more from connection than men do and therefor are on average less motivated by the significance of reality itself. For example Teal Swan appeals mostly to women and crystal feminists and her content is largely about connection and feelings. Not so much why something is, but maybe I'm conflating understanding with consciousness in an erroneous way. Just spitballing.

You are going to reach more people with frozen pizza than gourmet cuisine because its more base. Of course there are different degrees of depth and quality within porn like how there are different degrees of frozen pizza. But frozen pizza is still junk food.

There are way more risks and costs for women than men sexually and they depend more on social resources on average. Its then natural to gravitate towards commitment and social value.

I think making porn can have elements of higher consciousness as an artistic pursuit but simply consuming porn will hardly reach the same height. Porn is about titillation at the end of the day.

Simon Bisley's art:

ORANGE 10 YELLOW 9 RED 7 GREEN 5 BLUE 2 TURQUOISE 1

What you consider an appropriate reaction is relative. October 7th is convenient for the current Israel government to invade and attack Gaza.

That doesn't change the fact that sex is still relatively base assuming my earlier assertions are true. Also, in my opinion quality should refer to how well something is made on a technical level instead of how high or low conscious it appears to be.

Dude, what is this formatting? You don't strictly need a deeper state of awareness to enjoy breathing or sex but a deeper state of awareness can make those experiences richer whereas certain experiences cannot be experienced without a deeper state of consciousness, like a spiritual awakening. That is the distinction. Its not about difficulty but relative complexity and depth. Parents love their children and are deeply attached on a primal level but they don't necessarily love other people's children. To appreciate children on a deep level takes deliberate conscious thought, which makes it high-conscious. Don't forget your a glorified rat at the end of the day. Humans are just animals. Be careful of projecting the absolute unto the relative.

It might be hard to appreciate when you have been inundated with Leo's concepts for years but his ideas are actually quiet radical and challenging a lot of the time. Going straight to a philosophical conclusion like "everyone acts from good intentions" without building your case will necessarily lead to arguments because they are often upsetting. Like the idea that everyone acts from good intentions can come of as dismissive of legitimate bad experiences. You know that is not true, but you also listened to hours of content explaining why that is. When you challenge a paradigm, it is better to frame it as a question instead of a definite statement. For example: "don't you think that Hitler had good intentions relative to his people or even just himself? Like, how is it possible for someone start a world war without good intentions?" Sometimes people will just feel upset at an idea as a knee jerk reaction no matter how well you explain yourself. They might soften their stance later once they get over it.

That's my point, yes. being enlightened or highly conscious doesn't change anything fundamentally. Anyone can enjoy sex but not anyone can appreciate self-actualization, high art or deep states of awareness. That is a level of complexity beyond base needs that most people don't experience normally. Porn and blood sports are low-conscious because they are inherently less complex forms of pleasure. Even with the breathing example, you have to breath consciously as part of a practice to reach a deep state of consciousness as opposed to just breathing normally with no awareness. That is a distinction between higher and lower you have to make yourself in order to make that example.

There is nothing special about being enlightened.

Saying that consciousness is a state of mind doesn't mean certain actions can't be qualitative in terms of consciousness, if only because more base needs are less complex and less morally aspirational than for example self-actualization. Something being low-conscious isn't a moral judgement by the way. I'm very suspicious of any spiritual concept that tries to separate the body from the mind. It reeks of escapism.

My understanding of low VS high conscious activities is that it is somewhat analogous to Maslow's hierarchy of needs and we can therefor measure how conscious something is depending on where on the hierarchy of needs an activity will tend to fall. Porn consumption and sex is by definition part of the lowest rung of needs, physical needs, and therefor cannot be high conscious in of itself no matter how you slice it. Making porn can be an artistic pursuit and high quality hentai or erotica can be rich entertainment wise but porn is in of itself low consciousness. The problem isn't that porn is low conscious but the need to "veganify" everything to appear more spiritual.

Anything beyond just reaching tier 2 is desert in my opinion. Too much jerking off to obscure eastern religious figures.

Its not too late to change your life. You'll just have less energy and more responsibilities as you get older.

One thing you have to consider when it comes to meaning is that meaning is fundamentally a projection of the human mind. The way our minds conceptualize and perceive meaning is inherently human centric and driven by our needs and desires, which betrays meaning as arbitrary in the absolute sense. The distinction between objects and tools for example. Such distinction don't exist in nature outside of a human perspective. There is no difference between a hammer and a rock from a non-human perspective. This logic extends to the meaning we assign to our work and ourselves, We value certain kinds of work because they help our community in a certain kind of way and fulfill us personally. It is a highly human way to see reality, in terms of meaning. Meaning is essentially an arbitrary distinction regardless of how meaningful something is to us. Assuming its true that we as humans create meaning and project it unto the world, consider that it doesn't really matter if things are meaningless in the grand scheme of things because we are the only ones that care about such. The "grand" doesn't have an agenda like that. If everything is meaningless in the grand scheme of things you will still feel certain things are meaningful to you personally. Something you'd pay to do for its own sake. Like petting kittens, raising children, helping others, be a teacher, make art, being a good lover, ending the day feeling like you've been an asset, etc. Absolute meaninglessness is a good thing because it enables the freedom to live according to your values. It would suck if the classical biblical god existed and demanded that we live according to his values and his alone. You have the freedom to pursue your values, which is what you want. You are probably just not sure what they are exactly.