kavaris

Its a good question, and im gonna look for a book on short introductions (likely yous are touching on~anything that crosses the multiple realms we've been talking about... Religion, Philosophy, Physiology/Biology or Ancient Medicine... Grammar, or Languages, or the Arts... Logic, as well as Spiritual or Mystical things that counter, or compliment Rational Logic) And on the topic of Religion ~ or the realm right before, this word "soteriology" -> The study or doctrine of salvation definitely applies to Christianity. I just so happened to be looking at it in this moment. Edit: There might be a title for the study of "that which exists right before Christianity" but i dont know what it is, and its fairly new if it does exist, or atleast i didnt know there was a such thing, beyond "the study of antiquity"? Maybe? @Joseph Maynor Oh okay. That actually helps alot. Theology is gonna be, "The study of the nature of God and religious truth", Aristotle i of course know well, and thats gonna be the following (These are basically what Aristotle's treatises are called too): 1. Logic -> technical explanations for categories around substance, quantity and quality, statements, affirmations, earliest language around "logic" 2. Pychology, Biology 3. Metaphysics, or First Principles & Being; Metaphysics referring to qua being; substance; form and matter; et caetera 4. Ethics and Politics - how to live and organize society 5. Rhetoric and Poetics (which is on language, persuasion, art) p.s. i had written on Aristotle, so i had categories all laid out in front of me already, lol. Anyway, yous can use that to find books.

Bonus Ques., #2: And this is more getting into the individual provinces, like Sparta, Athens, etc, etc., which is for instance, Why were Spartans so obsessed w/ being warriors (or why were the people who wanted to become spartans, Spartans in the first place)? Like, Ive not looked outside of the basic warrior-aspect of Sparta, as I was originally focused on Sparta from the perspective of the outcasts, the Spartans who were kicked out and who ended up sailing to Italy (Puglia, where my ancestors are from. but my ancestors definitely were not big strong, warrior-minded people at all, so iuno who the fk is related to Spartans) And so like, that is a whole nother side of the Spartans most people dont know of; But if we stay in mainland Greece, we see how Spartans really rely on Athenians and others to learn words and grammar and such... Like, they werent dumb or anything like that, but they needed a little help to get going, cause they were sortve fixated on war (im describing this wrong, cause its part of their role in society to be warriors, but the question is how you join, and how you leave/besides through banishment, is a question i have, and i dont know how that process works, nevertheless they sound like traumatized souls, dark souls in terms of the way they are to be this cloister of warriors, but i guess the military is this same idea, or similar). But that is to say that there is more complexity to these stories that we need to dig up to really understand them, and im just naming Sparta and Athens cause they are the two most recognizable, though i meant to really touch on other cultures~And accidentally go caught up describing Sparta. In any case, that is one such question.

This stuff is very hard to figure out, so i dont blame anyone if they cant contribute, Alas ive started reading and writing alot on this topic, and I def am interested, BUT admittedly, its one of the hardest topics to really see into. That is, if any of yous want to figure it out w/ me, this is the invitation to do just that, and to join me in figuring it out ~or to point me in a direction that might help me (us) understand the Archaic Period and Classical Greece, in order to get a better sense for what it was like, leading into the Hellenistic and Roman Periods. I was inspired by @Nemra in how he titled his thread, but i thought that i dont think theres gonna be enough books around this very specific thing that im looking at ATM, which rests on knowing "the history of the Muse and the Musician" (or just helping me to understand day to day life in Archaic/Classical Greek living), and learning about places such as Ancient Sparta and the rest of Greece, cause there's this peculiar and unrecognizable thing going on~After we come out of the Mycenaean Period to Archaic an Classical Period of Greece, specifically in terms of How the Muse is perceived, and its relationship to the Musician, we begin to see this personification of the gods through the musicians. Musicians back then were quite different: And just how Greeks experienced & thought of the Muse was quite different. The common word for Muse simply referred to rhythmic speech ... We have to figure the Muse out, cause its so complex, just in itself By the Medieval Period, we all know how the Musicians had all become more like the town jesters, or the town scryer in the way they functioned in day to day life. In stark contrast, the musician in Archaic Greece WAS the personification, they were the Metamorphoses, or a Mythological Anthropomorphism towards people not objects (characters or people), because they received the Muse and communicated it further. Im using terms that i am assuming you are familiar with, so hopefully you will looks into these terms, and what they mean in the context im talking about. Some of you might know what im talking about. Youd be surprised what weve come to learn, as far as the role of the musician and music itself is concerned, how they could subsequently evoke the muse ~or~they were the muse ~invoking through them, and being perceived as such, given their connection to the gods... And the gods are basically like, 'who the Greeks rely on for answers and for settling disputes, et caetera, etc. So, invoking the muse, to them, it was seen as this powerful thing that went beyond inspiration for some artsy means (quite the contrary), it crossed into political, social and spiritual affairs and disputes, and many more things going on in their daily lives (of course, thats is part of my question, getting to the bottom've Ancient Greece) The muse was an extension of the gods, and the musician was akin to a vehicle for that purpose. Likewise, it was the musician who would personify the Muse and play the songs that would then dictate what would happen, like they depended on the musician to say "who is stronger" or "who performed the best" or "who deserves to be heard by the oracle" or something, transferring the right of personification to the individual, and in some sense giving a voice to that individual. In some sense they even were playing the role of the oracle. These are of course the kinds of questions we want to have answered. The musician was essentially establishing what the rules and laws would be in the coming centuries. They were establishing what the language itself should be and sound like, what significance should be carried in words and their meanings, prescribing meaning and giving a voice to the things that we, in todays day and age take for granted as already having and possessing a voice. The word i use for the tradition around Greek gods is Metamorphoses: That is, the transformation of the quality within a god, likened to that of a quality we now see as something a human today may express, or possess (emotions, qualities, traits, et caetera). And the Greeks relied on the gods for those things, including answers to solve hard dilemmas, even if the musician wasnt there or the muse wasnt there, they had to really weigh on the gods for a clue as to what to do, given their devotion towards them. The Greeks have this musical language, this mode of expression that you really have to understand in order to understand them. Of course, i havent done a good job explaining just how significant the language/music was (not to mention, the gods themselves were) in everyday life, nor have I explained WHY the gods were so significant, and things like that, but that is because this topic sortve requires you to have investigated it ~im sortve asking for alot, but I believe yous will figure something out~

Bonus Ques.: Is there a connection to Orphic tradition, and the musicians within that context? Atleast, those are the sortve of questions that also connect back to this, granted, *Orpheus in itself is complex, and could be opening up a can of fiery worms Note: I had Greek Mythology and related in High School (im 37) lol, but i mean to say, back when i was 17-18, this was the only subject I was interested in, cause the teacher was talking about like, "How so & so represented the boy's penis" ~in the story~ Not that i remember what we were talking about, But im just saying, this stuff was cool. Like the computer class was cool too, but i kept getting in trouble during the last two years of school, for me. So Mythology was more up my aily, in the sense that~it was accepting of chaos. If yous arent accepting of Chaos, i cant really shine. Like i have a theory that the reason the Old Norse/Germanic side got turned onto Christianity was cause they were essentially striving for order, and not true chaos. However, its possible they didnt have a true understanding of it either, and were just initially thinking of Jesus as "another god" in the pantheon, that which represented and orderly living. This may not be true, and ive not investigated it, but i just have a feeling. That is, I feel as though, the chaos goes where the chaos was made, and somewhere around the Greek and Roman interaction, theres a real chaotic thing preserved, that which is in between Jesus and the Bronze Age Collapse, and these events where its like, you have all these cultures who are like, uprooting their own traditions, and relocating. We dont know alot about it, cause ive tried to look back into history to find out, and we simply dont know enough, outside of say Greek writers/commentary and Egyptian records (who btw, are very thorough in naming all the cultures, Alas thats not what i mean to talk about) I mean to direct our attention towards what I call Mythological Period, up to today. Like, on the surface, it my seem like it goes from hunter gatherers, to farming, to proto-civilization, but its more like, cycles of life, and we are misunderstanding, in living form, like. We cant understand history because we are that far away, but we can, in the very least, say how we feel about it, and why it happened the way we think it happened, using our misunderstanding as a way of pointing to that which mightve happened.

This might be confusing, as i didnt really preface w/ "why it would be weighted", based on something from the context of the history, so lets see if yous figure it out on your own and reconstruct it for me, cause its part of the process for the rest of the idea. For you have this healthy dose of certain worlds~or ideas from ppl~adding to the conversation, and it builds upon what is like an idea that may have more potential once you think deeply into it. And maybe its just really really interesting, and thats it. You never know though when youve crossed an idea thats gonna cascade into something else, and into something else. Like we're just brainstorming.

I just learned of this historic term Wild Fields to denote~what would be present-day regions of Ukraine and the West of Russia, north of the Black Sea, AND ~it was the traditional name for the Black Sea regions, i.e. Black Sea Steppes in the 16th and 17th Centurions, et caetera, and I thought it was a good title to use to setup what would be a thread on "Anything" about Philosophy or Ancient Science & Tech., from the Mycenaean, Archaic, Classical or Latter Periods, Sortve like a World of Warcraft trilogy of places, of which you can choose any location or topic or facet, that falls within that region, even if it crosses into places of religion, or magick. Or even if its like an intellectual analysis of a candlelit dinner. The purpose is really just to get us all talking and stuff, and to generate interesting confersati

@UnbornTao I guess theres three things here that are conflated together (meaning that, even i am conflating them together, because they are that integrated) 1. The presumptions in/around a thing~or things 2. The assumption of what we think we (or they) think, how they think of those things ~ 3. And then, the initialized belief that we think we know anything about the thing we think we know 4. Is maybe the bonus, which is like this thing that lives in between these three things, as the substance that makes all of it fluid, and you can sortve point towards Plato as a means of saying something about form, or some foundation to even point to (cause otherwise, we have broken our foundation, and we have no where to go, which isnt necessarily a good state to be staggered in between, but it isnt necessarily bad either)

@everyone into health, As yous can see, i stocked up on the Jewish rye this week, as ima be busy nd have to had to get everything today~note, it says "Jerusalem" in the hebrew. and pretty much anything w/ russian, ukrainian or jewish is like a symbol that you are dealing w/ real food But it goes to show how the most current depictions are like this weighted entry into what things mean to us, and why they might matter~Moses, although hes from three thousand years ago or whatever, he could become an example, a symbol of a sect of religion that can be built upon more of like the goblinesque, trollish tribal signs of the serpent that might be enjoyable to research~and the continued search for learning the interplay of Israel, Egypt and the Imiddle est—he can represent the Μοῦσαι, Moses / Musais, and become the Muse re-inspired, reverted, inspirational symbol of love, devoid of the softening, and more so taking on the functions of our current paradigms. I mean, his name is so close to "Muse" so its an opportunity awaiting us.

@UnbornTao If you wanna see a neat Philosophy that is also unknown (probably even lesser known than skepticism) Synechism (~19th CE Philosophy) from the Greek root/base συνεχής, continuous (continuity), uninterrupted & holding or~held together by~ σύν (syn-) → together, with + ἔχω (échō) → to hold, have, keep (plus the adj. end -ής) Philosophical term: "Doctrine of continuity", or in laymens terms, synchenism is the idea that continuity is fundamental, or that it is fundamentally continuous, and so therefore continuity is the key principle for understanding everything else. I mean, its basically what alot of people would be into, they just don't normally have the most correct terms from history to describe it; Or they atleast dont know they are into it, given that its hard to constantly be on the precipice of breaking, or acknowledging one's own shortcomings (in regards to their most fundamental ideas) ~which ties into the "centipedes dilemma", combined w/ a little of like, Heidegger's "being-in-the-world" idea, where you don't stand outside your worldview and observe it you are already operating inside it, so the world shows up as the total field~the holon~of meaning, as opposed to something you can easily bracket and escape. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heideggerian_terminology

Ha, i feel like ive seen something like this recently, w/ a guy who was cracking open these wet, black stones, and upon cracking them open (which they seemed to very easily open~i dont know what they were made of) they revealed lots of little fossils, or what do you call them little creatures that leave behind imprints of their shells, that stuff, little fossil you see around Egypt and stuff like this. This could even be the same youtube channel that it comes from, lol i dont know (i like that green poop stuff in the crabs... the tartar or whatever it is, the tomtom... i jus remember it was two syllables like that.. something /t/ something)

Hey, never say 'Never', Right? You could def write it if you feel a pull towards it, i mean, id be surprised to learn if more than like 1% of the world right now even knows who Pyrrho..., like you'd effectively be investigating something thats New to this generation, or the coming Gen. Hey, even if its just to get ya into something, starting to write, or to do something from a different perspective. Even if its initially just pulling the best parts from this translation or something else you are reading at the time, Ya never know what could end up transforming into a new place or a new opportunity. I'll have to check out R.G. Bury's translation myself to learn what thats all about.

Oh thats neat. You are saying thats somethin' you are writing? I've definitely looked at Pyrrho, as I remember seein' this face several times now, i just havent looked at Pyrrho in skepticism, so it was prolly something to do w/ Alexander the Great

@around2:30, we get to the part where the Israelite Hebrews question god, and god brings a serpent, and the serprent bites the Israelites. And after many of them passing away due to these snake bites, they then go to Moses and say, "We have sinned... for we have spoken against the Lord... And against you...!?" The Lord said to Moses to put a serpent on a pole, "and it shall be that everyone who looks at it (perhaps not w/ their eyes... maybe tis meant "imagined it") and that anyone who is bitten who's imagined it like this, shall subsequently survive (live)" Now if you caught one of my posts once where i was talking about them being lighter weight, not as tall back then, yadayada, and you can start see why a venomous snake bite, regardless of its size might be a death inducing situation -prolly for us too, as ive never been bit by a snake. But we have to be careful not to mix up the story w/ the latter period, which is to say that they mightve actually used the snake message as an attention grabber, and whether or not its apart of the Moses tribe story, it doesnt really matter, cause laws and messages like this play the same role(s). Due to the latter sanitization of the story, it makes it seem like they are gonna experience a"miracle" of the snake, and it goes into "Nor let us tempt Christ..." therafter, but I dont look at this from a standpoint of "everything is sanitized", cause that would be ridiculous too. Things are based on something, and somewhere out there there is an accurate message, speaking to something that points in the right direction. You just have these things like "The Spirit... The water... and the blood" and elements of the bible that were written over, likely very important elements, as they all sound like something critical to the story. Ergo im just speaking to the fact that the truth was erased (unless the church has the truth stashed away), and thats all im speaking to~im speaking from a place that is like, can we rid us of this vanilla crapola and insert the chocolate that it needs ~note, im not a huge chocolate fan, but this is so much vanilla that it actually needs choc., And so then, that way, we can feel it as a real story, and not like l’introduzione... l’illusione... il prestigio, even if the magick element is important. That is, the magick elements are staggered in such a way that i dont feel like theres a good message, nor a message that makes sense when it should make sense, hence im trying to focus on Moses, in particular, who has alot of poignancy towards the religion in general, as someone who has a message that extends outward as well, cause it bridges the moments with Egypt and the Israelites. The rest is more of like~a family of things that are hard to pull apart, like the families of someone in India or something, in the sense that, im not gonna be able to say much more about those Indian families beyond whats already there in the bible.

Rather than going over any one scientific or metaphysic, or magical type thing, why dont we ask about the *question, questioning, or the preconditions to "a thing", required. because its not until we find ourselves walking a path that we may begin to understand what path we want to be on thereafter, let alone what & why we are on that path... And this video is sortve the extension on that, leading into a more complete idea around the myst., or the incomprehendable questions & preconditions This video begins from the notion of the "question", and the conditions towards theurgia. And rather than explain theurgia, which i certainly could (and may consider doing) leaving yous w/ 5 paragraphs all on it, i simply want to let yous uncover it on your own~Theurgy, which is layers of layers of layers~likely even beyond those who think they know what it is, as these things are basically a long story

For anyone that wants to read these books now, i found the second one here, The Master's of truth., on Archive dot org p.s. im readin it now nd i regret not reading this before, cause ths shts so good. if anyone finds more books like this, or anything like the 100 booklist books that i posted in the book section, plz do send me them.

Thats a nice way to put it; Thats prolly what i was thinking too, and you were able to find the words for it. *p.s. there's of course the term "gnosis-", but thats associated w/ more than what we want in this context i believe, atleast in modern times its taking on new meanings that are fluid and hard to pinpoint, like more on the *mystery side of things. or so i feel.

Okay i got it now, it was three books that i put aside~someone originally recommended me, that i had listed in Epistemology and similar sections, but that i thought were more appropriate for something like this occasion where ppl are tlkin' about this stuff specifically... The three book are Vernant's Myth and Thought Among the Greeks, Marcel Detienne's The Masters of Truth in Archaic Greece and Maria Mili's Religion and Society in Ancient Thessaly

This is something else yous can look up, that which i have several different perspectives and ways on approaching what is really the same story of 'Moses. Which is that, the oldest accounts of someone named "Moses" come from the non-biblical works of Hecataeus of Abdera. He is supposed to have recounted the Egyptians who blamed the plague (not the bible's exaggerated plague) on the foreigners at the time, the Hebrew people, Hebrew again just being sortve an "outsider" term like barbara- in Greek, atleast i mean to say, thats what it was pointing to... what they were sortve saying to those non-Egyptian folk at the time. And it is suppose to have described how they expelled those foreigners from the country, whereupon Moses, their leader, took them to Canaan. Of course, Hecataeus's work only survives in fragments through Diodorus Sicilus, but its noticeably sympathetic towards Moses, describing him as a lawgiver. So on the Greeks and Hebrew side, Moses is a legendary hero, albeit nomadic. And thats how he was to even be described by everyone (generally) prior to reading this ('cause think about it, what else could you possibly conclude about Moses). That is to say, all roads lead to the same vague depictions of Moses, or that vague form rather ~often having a serpent involved~ 'Cause like, thats not only the surface level conclusion, thats also what our earliest accounts of him seem to have concluded as well, so... I mean, regardless of who or whatelse he might've been, thats who Moses is Now, and probably who he'll always be now (i dont really see how to go deeper into it, beyond the unknown story w/ the serpent and the nomadic people learning, buts thats hard to really track down... granted its cool to talk about and think about)

People can start in the Greek directly w/ Theaetetus [*tʰee-ay-tee-tus] (on Classic.MIT Website) yous can read it, cause its asking "What is knowledge", Alas i wanna look for this book I was talking about in the meanwhile.

i had the perfect book i think for this topic, but ill have to find it again, as it was like the entry to this, both religions and knowledge, investigating ~for me~ but i ended up never reading it passed the first few pages to begin w/ and i cnt recall what its called atm. *p.s. our grammar, or the way we communicate is based on Homer, so Greek literature is in a way the introduction into whats become how we all talk, and subsequently how we form ideas around knowledge, or what we consider *it.

This is a megalist of *100 books, granted the first part is just going through alot of whats called the Greek Collections (First Assortment) But if you continue down youll see stuff that I got from another person's reading list (its not someone from Actualized dot org, but again, its possible some of these books have been mentioned), and it includes things ive added~that i thought were missing, that seemed to fit the aesthetic of this list in particular. Some of the books on the reading list got removed, e.g., a couple books on magick i didnt find appealing since it involved things like locating a knife that is the length of a goat or something odd like this, as it just doesnt seem to be representative of the kind of esoteric/mystic (<3 divination, theurgia, spellcrafting and prayers, & vancian magick) that most people would respond to. You sortve have to look at the Greek & Roman entries into this field, or skip to the modern era, closer towards the third/fourth assortment, to get straight to the more modern writing tradition, attitude and novelettes n'poetry, or the scaffold of which everything has lead up2 So anyway, here's the list. If yous want any resources to websites and such (including words/term's definitions, or anything about Greek literature, e.g., reading material on Poseidon), feel free to ask me here. Πρωτο Reading List: First Assortment Apollonius of Rhodes, Argonautica Valerius Flaccus, Argonautica Orphic Argonautica Petrarch, The Secret Petrarch, Secretum Pindar's Odes (Olympian, Pythian, Nemean, etc.) Plutarch, Roman Questions Plutarch, Of Isis and Osiris Hesiod, Shield of Heracles Hesiod, Theogony Hesiod, Works and Days Horace, Ars Poetic Horace, Odes Horace, Satire Herodotus, Histories Palaephatus, Peri Apiston Antoninus Liberalis, Metamorphoses Apuleius, Metamorphoses Ovid, Metamorphoses See also, Roman de la rose, il fiore, et caetera* Ovid, Art of Love Ovid, Fasti Ovid, Tristia Aristophanes, Frogs Aristophanes, Birds Aristophanes, Acharnians Aristophanes, Assembly Women Aristophanes, Knights Aristophanes, Lysistrata Aristophanes, Peace Aristophanes, Thesmophoriazusae Aristophanes, Wasps Library Of Diodorus Siculus Library Of Apollodorus Library Of Photius Aeschylus, Agamemnon Aeschylus, Eumenides Aeschylus, Libation Bearers Aeschylus, Persians Aeschylus, Prometheus Bound Aeschylus, Seven Against Thebes Aeschylus, Suppliant Maidens Iamblichus on the Mysteries (See 'Chaldean Oracles) Iamblichus, Life of Pythagoras Euripides, Alcestis Euripides, Andromache Euripides, The Bacchae Euripides, Cyclops Euripides, Electra Euripides, Hecuba Euripides, Helen Euripides, Heracleidae Euripides, Heracles Euripides, Ion Euripides, Iphigenia at Aulis Euripides, Iphigenia at Tauris Euripides, Medea Euripides, Orestes Euripides, Phoenician Women Euripides, Rhesus Euripides, Suppliant Women Euripides, Trojan Women Seneca, Medea Seneca, Thyestes Seneca, Phaedra Seneca, Hercules Furens Seneca, Agamemnon Seneca, Epistulae Morales ad Lucilium *(n.18, Saturnalia)* Bacchylides, Epinician Odes Dithyrambs of Bacchylides Nonnus, Dionysiaca Hyginus, Fabulae Fragments of Sappho Fragments of Simonides Fragments of Anaximander Lucian, Reading List: Second Assortment Lucian, Anacharis Lucian, A True Story Lucian, Alexander the Flase Prophet Lucian, Consonants of Law Lucian, Charon Lucian, Dance Lucian, Descent not Hades Lucian, Dialogues of Courtesans Lucian, Dialogues of the Dead Lucian, Dialogues of the Sea Gods Lucian, Double Inditement Lucian, Fisherman Lucian, Hermotimus Lucian, How to Write History Lucian, Ignorant Book Collector Lucian, On Sacrifice Lucian, On the Syrian Goddess Lucian, Parliament of the Gods Lucian, Praise of Demosthenes Lucian, Scythian Lucian, Ship or Wishes Lucian, Toxaris Lucian, Zeus Rants Miscellany, Reading List: Third Assortment Aetius of Amida, Libri Medicinales See also "Full Summary on Medea, Snake Medicine & the Context around Theriac" Hippocrates, Ancient Medicine Lucretius, De Rerum Natura Parmenides, On Nature τὰ Χαλδαϊκὰ λόγια (Chaldean Oracles): Julian the Theurgist, Julian the Chaldean Philostratus, Life of Apollonius of Tyana Galen, Opera Omnia Galen, On the Natural Faculties Pliny the Younger, Epistulae Pliny the Elder, Naturalis Historia Cain, A Mystery *(Lord Byron)* Aradia, Gospel of Witches Sir Arthur, A Study in Scarlet John Tzetze, Ad Lycophronem John Tzetze, Book of Histories Georg Luck, Arcana Mundi Sarah Iles Johnston, Hekate Soteira H.D., Helen in Egypt H.D., Hermetic Definition H.D., Hermione Hellenica Oxyrhynchia Antonin Artaud, Heliogabalus Ljuba Bortolani, Magical Hymns from Roman Egypt Julian the Philosopher, Hymn to King Helios Julian the Philosopher, Hymn to the Mother of the Gods Carl Ionescu, She Who Hunts Christine de Pizan, The Book of the City of Ladies Michael Marullus, Hymni Naturales Celsus, De Medicina Catullus, Poems Colluthus, Rape of Helen Pseudomonarchia Daemonum Karl Kerenyi, Dionysus Karl Kerenyi, Eluesis Karl Kerenyi, Prometheus Karl Kerenyi, Hermes Stephanie Budin, Artemis Alan Moore, Promethea Pausanias, Descriptions of Greece Sarah Iles Johnston, Restless Dead Sarah Iles Johnston, Mantike Fritz Graf, Ritual Texts for the Afterlife Walter Otto, Dionysus: Myth and Cult Walter Otto, Theophony Ludwig Klages, Cosmogonic Eros Maria Mili, Religion and Society in Ancient Thessaly Henry Chadwick, Origen Contra Celsum Macrobius, Saturnalia Petronius, Satyricon Miscellany, Reading List: Fourth Assortment (in no particular order) The Derveni Papyri Athanassakis, The Orphic Hymns The Orphic Fragments of Otto Kern Thomas Taylor, The Hymns of Orpheus GRS Mead, Orpheus: The Theology of the Greeks B.P. Reardon, Collected Ancient Greek Novels Algis Uzdavinys, Orpheus and the roots of Platonism Ἑλληνιστικοὶ ποιηταί, Nicander, Alexipharmaca (from a tradition of Orphicesque Metamorphoses, Homer, Hesiod, Pindar, Sophocles, Callimachus, Alcaeus, etc.), etc. Wasson, Ruck, Hoffman, The Road to Eluesis Ekaterine Kobakhidze, Metaia Herman Hesse, Narcissus and Goldmund Federico Garcia Lorca, Blood Wedding Callimachus, Lycophron and Aratus Carmina Profana, Romulea X (Medea) Edgar Allan Poe, Ligeia Edgar Allan Poe, Morella Boccaccio, De Mulieribus Claris Satisfactio ad Guntharium James Clauss and Sarah Iles Johnston, Medea Jeffery Henderson, The Maculate Muse Jeremy Reed, The House of the Dead Madison Cawein, The Waste Land (T.S. Eliot) Jack Vance, The Dying Earth Felix Gilman, The Revolutions Edward Bulwer-Lytton, Zanoni Robert Graves, The Greek Myths Robert Graves, The White Goddess James Fraiser, The Golden Bough Peter Grey, The Red Goddess Reginald Scott, The Discovery of Witchcraft Hans Dieter Betz, The Greek Magical Papyri in Translation Henry Corbin, The Man of Light in Iranian Sufism Jean-Pierre Vernant, Myth and Thought Among the Greeks Marcel Detienne's The Masters of Truth in Archaic Greece Maria Mili's Religion and Society in Ancient Thessaly The Seven books of Paulus Aegineta Le Comte de Lautreamont, The Songs of Malador The Emerald Tablets of Thoth the Atlantean by Maurice Doreal Note, this list does not focus on Philosophy/Greater literature of Greek thought and such (maybe youd call it "philosophical foundations and such"), Alas there's another +100 books that we could've added

The artist in me feels like theres something weve not resolved, or something i have to ask @ anyone whos interested... but i think thats just the ocd art comin through ~ thinkin theres something we are missing, like it could be something moral or ethical, it could be something that pertains to the young ppl looking up to us... it could be something thats suppose to inspire. iuno. theres a whole host of possibilities. Iuno im getting like this thing i call a "multiple scenery of gods flying through or overhead" images~in mind... This one, in particular, is like, i wanna say a forest in the United States between Ohio, Wisconsin and Kansas... Like Wisconsin's Potawatomi; And maybe theres pink & yellow, like just chillen in the background somewhere. So maybe that was it.

During the parts of the bible w/ Jesus, theres this thing about the scandal, σκάνδαλον (skándalon), between Peter and Jesus, which begins w/ Peter the Apostle, who pushes back against Jesus Christ~And what Jesus said about his own path—suffering, rejection, and what lies ahead of it. Peter reacts, shocked, trying to correct what sounds unacceptable. In that moment, Peter is no longer aligned w/ the path Jesus is set on~because in contrast to this, Peter is trying to bend it, redirect the path he's on (i guess he feels Jesus's path doesnt makes any sense), testing the path to some degree. Jesus answers him very sharp and stern-like and calls him a σκάνδαλον Jesus then shifts from that into this greater message (like a "yous all" type of message). He brings a child into view—not as decoration (or i guess... in some sense, he could be... i dont know) in other words, the child is like a prop., to make a greater point about the uninformed/uninitiated, those moving forward without defenses. Then he says, in effect, that "to cause one of these little ones~to stumble~is to become a σκάνδαλον for them" I mean, to me this part has the most potential, atleast in the way im explaining it. Like, first it shows how easily a person can step out of alignment and, without the intention, try to redirect, bend or test what shouldnt be tested over and over again, seeing as Jesus is trying to point to a fundamental, a decision that hes already made up his mind about. Then it warns—your misalignment can spill outward and affect others, especially those who are less stable or more exposed. So the teaching moves from a specific incident to a general principle: stay oriented, don't obstruct (dont stagger between, if you can help it) recognize that what seems like a small interference, can become the point where someone else loses their footing. So this is maybe the one redeemable part, that which shows some redeemable quality/message of Jesus. He was on to something there, no doubt. But anyway, the reason i even brought that up was to make mention of how this part is interesting, beyond the observations we just made. Like the sequences that involve Jesus and his disciples are unusual, to me atleast, granted alot of what i read i feel doesnt add up. However we can reduce the sense of things not adding up by finding atleast one redeemable part or quality, which could be this one, i dont know. That is the part i suggest for now.

I think we use to have more super, natural female energy around , before antiquity, is what it was like, like an ocean of the fem., or a slipstream of that insectoid-like attachment from some male, female couple (be careful who you are letting on into your circle, right) And so like, this era where it wouldnt have been as taboo to cum and be like, "Eat this to be cured now, Mary", wasnt strange a hundred years prior, closer to barbarian times (note, thats not me calling it barbaring times, cause thats coming from greek texts, many, as they talk about us originally coming from that) but theres something else starting in that era that starts this taboo / prohibition of this stuff, to sortve exalt Jesus post mortem, and demonize him while hes alive, and we are doing that right now, like... The bible is makin it out like this just got sprung on Pontius pilate, that he jus had to begrudgingly accept it, and execute him, and thats not to say then that thats not a reasonable possibility, its just to show you that the sortve "jewish movements" (note we dont know for sure which groups were the ones yelling "burn the witch" -sortve things, during the execution) and are condemning people before having acknowledged what they are condemning, and that cycle is still in full effect, and this scene is a reflection of that in the world, to me. Like theres this insectoid-like element that was lost, or misunderstood or left in a papyri somewhere, stuffed in a monks drawer~somewhere in a monastery, and we dont have that since it was something you couldnt necessarily say during antiquity ~or it would be the beginning of the taboo~. Like if you look at the Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs and their obsession w/ bees and mushrooms, you get a sense for this bee culture, and these insectoid tribes, which is like super realistic feminine energy coming through, feminine from a mothernature perspective. Now its weird & taboo and nobody understands it, and so understandably so, it keeps getting killed off before it has a chance to exist again, and to me Jesus is like a symbol of this insectoid energy, and people are misunderstanding him and his offerings, cause hes not really a murderer, is he? hes just weird, and hes tryina force a new flavor/energy, this sticky texture, and others are "cleansing it", and *sanitizing it. Like the bible might be telling a 90% sanitized version of the real story is what im gettin at, and we are just comparing our notes to it as if they didnt sanitize the sht out of it from 1—500 some AD p.s. his followers cant be exalting a man who's THAT bad, like theres gotta be something redeeming about him that they are tryina communicate, cause otherwise its like the worst game of telephone ever.

Colloquy Soliloquy We gotta get people reading and writing again, as its very tough to have these persuasive, cognizant discussions, conversations that are moreso thinking in a twitter or tick tock format, almost like an older timey AOL text chat~in terms of the sense of prohibition that they would have for said investment into well-thought out pieces, like as if to *think into what you are saying, and the quality of the conversation itself. Like its no problem to initialize conversations, but its not like its like a collision of minds any longer. More than likely, its not gonna be a conversation you intended on having, if they are to be had, given that its more like an occasional brush up against the evergreens, like a rare discovery within. Everything is being funneled, like in the world, or so it would seem. So thats what I would say. I could write quite more, several hundred, but its like, does no one get it? Like at first i was looking for someone thats just gonna be into some of the stuff i thought was interesting. Now i realize im looking for anyone who is like, just flowing, without a care~without fear or fear of time, not inpatient, but considered in turn as worthy. In that sense, im not tryina find just one person though, like that would be strange now, it should be like a cascade effect, cause thats like such a fundamental things we are tryina bring to the world stage. Like thats not a hidden secret that we wanna covet awaySooo , Like Anyway, That's just my rant: Just flow <- Just flow people <- That's the message.