kavaris

i suppose we could just say, that theres a larger, dark cloud typve entity in the mix that is making it hard to do anything consciousness related, or to like... to *fit* everything into a perfect frame, its like... theres no frame or box that can contain this picture. ... thats like a more simplistic, boiled, refined, many times - version.

Alright, i have a burning question i find myself asking now, internally... And thats how to *think*, act and dream in this sortve straight and very narrow path, but still discover new and interesting things... Like... There seems to be this direct contradiction between: The thing we would want to do, versus the things we need so as for it to for realistic and like... real... like... I realized theres these two parts that unfold in a world of possibility, its like... One is to approach the white and shining thought, and the other is like anticipating it (WHILE believing), on the other side... Where its ostensibly from a place that you hadnt actually thought of really, or not in a way that hasnt defied the whole premise of self discovery. But when you are observing all thoughts, and entirely tracing everything from start to destination, its like... Well wtf is this now, i have to anticipate it as the second turn, before the final prestige can occur. But if you are observing it, anticipating, and having to force it like, "i tell my mind now i believe", then what even is that and is it even something that any person would ever feel like... Yes... Great, real fun... To me it seems like, not very good... Good would be where you dont understand how anything is happening, and you are guessing at random ideas you have... before it all comes tumbling down for not working... iuno, i guess what im saying is that its kindve retarded, iuno like... iuno what would be the right direction to go with that...

@Evelyna "Likes"👍 I suppose your right. I guess it has to do with the sudden influx of creative things that are now rejoining this sense of like, very deep pain that ive emerged from, coupled with trying to find a way to reverse it, but also trying to operate the control panel in such a radically different way... Its like this nuanced mechanism that im trying to wrap my head around, like... A) you are approaching some undefined texture, B) You are anticipating/believing it to be, C) theres some nuances in there still, cause its like... like, its microscopic dingbats & gizmo's, and its like im trying to influence one variable in a multi-sea, multi-variable situation—that is to say its like its only having had *half* the influence, as we are not present from every direction possible. theres only so much we could ever acknowledge in that process, although its still enough to change it!.. Its like, the thing im tryin' to say takes awhile to pull apart, and i end up writing multiple pages in my attempt... which leads to erasing it, cause its like... ive changed my mind suddenly, typve thing... Like, im selling you a misfit stuffed animal w/ the buttons missing, then im like, "WAIT, No.. its actually got poison in it, i just remembered srr.. and its a cycle of trying to make sense -> create/express it in a new way -> erase it cause its too absorbed w/ me -> and then i try to remember if its following the right sequence... because if i got too... silly.. or too.. dark or something, i have to do deep reconstrucion on that part... cause, in retrospect, it wouldnt just be about the mechanism in our mind, but what we were working on, or the final artifact thereafter that was passed the torch so to speak, in terms of being a kindve, "from our heart" typve enthusiasm, that is like a piece of the puzzle youve created so that the mind may continue (almost putting to mind to rest in some sense, by means of making sense—where sense could not be made prior)... and all of that becomes its own effigy, if that makes sense, lol.

I like math cause its like, dividing or identifying free floating segments that dont have a length yet, and figuring out what they are. Likewise, i think about times when im in my dream, thinking that im now in this scene (Note: Thats the significant part, the being in the scene (why'm i stuck there) ; Not the flashforward thereafter). And its not until i start to control myself that it suddenly falls apart, much like pulling the curtain up, in the quickest of flashes... Its like "FLASH", and its over. I think about things in this way, like being hit by lightning. To me, i see things as being a *weirder than you thought* situation, being an individual whos experienced many, quite unusual things. Unfortunately i have this foundation now of missing lego bricks that i have had the misfortunate to collect off the ground; As a witness of a sledgehammer doing sledge hammering, scattered and gone, both staggered and in flashes. Thats why, to understand anything we have to look beyond the realm of what has, and can ever be known. Likewise, the subject must enapsulate the story somehow. Without the story, then it is a reduced broth that fits into a small vile, further contained in a napsack that is a lone bag on the picket fence. Words dont have meaning without the movement of other words and other individuals to make mistakes watching them move, leading us to a mistaken place while we speak in mistaken fallacys about its mistaken nothingness. It is not til later that we say, "Oh i think i under_stand it"... and later, "I think i under'stand it some more"... does that make sense?

@LoseYourvelf imaybe i put it like this... im not quite sure how we transition... theres always some celestial layer than came before like drawing infinitely many arctangents, theres always some blue side around the corner... i just dont know if we know what we are doing to get there, in a graceful, non-staggered manner. Possibly in a way that is reasonably straightforward for the experiencer.

I keep thinkin about how there's gotta be a way, much like when we are asleep and abruptley awoken, something like that has to happen, but for the land of the awake and living. I dont feel like ive experienced something thats reminiscent to what the beginning was, what that clean slate is and theres nothing that i can do, think, or feel that comes close. I think about this white light often, this strange sorta feeling i had during this unfortunate series of events. The light, although a vivid realness to me, it symbolized the door, the wall of doors. Thats the wall of light thats gonna be forced upon us. Can we not walk into that bad boy. Its impossible because it means stripping away things you didnt even know you needed. Its awkward, and, unusual, and it just feels scary in a weird way that isnt immediately obvious. There isnt time to work it out in the moment when its swallowing it whole. Theres no guarantees in any direction... I guess what im tryina say is, if the white light is like a symbol for what we were suppose to do, then i dont get it. I dont understand what should happen, to willingly just get torn apart... Les those pieces lay within some entity that lives and breathes... maybe they float forever in a soup.... ... any sortve celestial direction, its just like... debree and frozen planets... avalanches on planet ice, clouds over moscow... side-ripple mountains... smooth & rough, oil & vinegar soup and like, no way to get there.

If you look at a 4d object (a box) from 3-space, what appears to be a particular angle, you see what looks like a box inside of a box. It should just be "square", but it has these added attributes, much like what happens when a 2-plane experiences a 3d box... This is what each person is seeing, a slice of the wall outside of the box, that is really just a box. When you look at something from a higher dimension, it appears to have added attributes that just appear. In the same way, we are validating reality constantly even though its fundamentally disappearing. If it disappears then it cant be validated. If its validated, then you are a significant part of that, and only you can answer why its a certain way. This is what you feel on higher levels of consciousness, but you dont have a way to communicate it. To ask questions beyond this is a bit strange cause then you want to ask about why it looks like reality and not a box that changes shape. Why does it look like people in a peoples house. Those are valid questions. The box is an analogy. Its self validating. Theres things off screen that are validated, and the things on screen have to be validated. If you find corners of the box that dont make sense then youd presumably move in the opposite direction until it automatically validates off screen. There isnt a definite mechanism here, im just saying, thats what its going to be like...

You have to ask: how you got here, right? What *rule* says that, "What happens is-a linear time scale-That is, you died at the end of it, and a baby is born on the other side" - Thats what youd have to assume is happening. Except... what rule says that?... Thats what you'd be trained to believe in, a sortve linear, logical happening of some sort. Im asking yous so yous can ask the question too.

Im watchin a tv show where the guys like, "clear your mind" to the other person... Clear your mind, clear your mind... Everythings about this clear your mind mantra. Forget about clear your mind , let me introduce the focus on sound in your mind. Focus on your temple lobes, and dont get carried away thinking of each one individually... if you feel like it leans to one side thats fine. If you can keep the focus in the center somehow, thats even better. Theres a wacky wacky world of sound going on, that you would otherwise overshoot on a drug, as its promoted to visualness; Instead you have to overwhelm your ownself w/ sound that you generate yourself. Youll know its right if its like a "Ping!... Pong!" - Type've sound, like a pinball thats bouncing around... You ever hear Super mario when he jumps and makes a little sound?.. Its kindve like that sound, but bouncing off of things... Ive never gone beyond pinball lvl so to speak, but it sortve happen spontaneously after youve really marinated in sound... It has to fully encapsulate the mind. It starts out around the temples, and can fill out the rest of the hemispheres. It helps to put on one of those low HZ cosmic frequencies (the sound in your head should be high though)... the louder the better. and let that marinate into your own sense of frequency and it should happen once you take the headphones off or pause the sound. Iuno why it has to be a low frequency to amplify the high frequency, but its just what ive always done. Anyway, thats all.

@integral Hey srry im responding late. I appreciate your response. I thought of another perspective, which i considered making a separate thread about, but hey... why not continue... So, this is based on an experience i had where i was under anesthesia, specifically ketamine which may or may not be relevant. I had already tried ketamine, just not in anesthesia circumstances, and the weird thing is that, the following all seemed to occur before they actually began the ketamine... Or, in other words... They were transfering me from one table to the other (if youve ever been to the hospital, they wheel you around on those tables, transfering you to the operation table when they get you to the next room)... Anywhoo, i transfered over to the table. At that point, its unlikely they had began the anesthesia, right?... only seconds had passed. Well, i shifted my body onto the table... and the second i laid my head back, it was as if i closed my eyes... and... *blackness*, like... (Not a second passed between laying my head back and everything)... the bright room faded immediately, as i shut my eyes for a second!... So within that second of time, it was as if i had a second-long dream, and in the next second i was opening my eyes inside of another dark room with a tube down my throat, realizing the surgery was already over (i cant stress enough, it was only a second).. And i was now in the recovery room (which itself was a dark room)... Ive never been able to explain it, suffice to say that it proved that a dream-like thing can sweep over you so fast that you cant "intercept" what happened, only that, in one instant you were *here*, and the next instant i was *there*, typeve thing... And this surely extends into other such things as, in one instant - believing we are *this* and in the next instant believing we are *that*. Which is quite odd to imagine, as in dreams the act of stumbling upon yourself means you recover yourself sometimes. So this would be more like, you dream a dream that *replaces* all notions of a prior, that then becomes the technical beginning.... Atleast, hypothetically speaking it would seem that is then possible. What would cause that to happen i dont know.. its a bit odd.. As is, things happening in one instant to the next without recollection. But it demonstrates the feableness of memory tracking memory, or what would be considered as the state of one thing to the next.

Ive had a revelation - So please bare with me so i can get to the point... Its important, atleast i think so - les' anyone is too nervous or too resistant to take it seriously. Recently my cat has been obsessively grooming/biting herself, and the area thats particular sensitive is around the base of her tail. Theres several things it could be a result of, but its occurred to me... These are all the unusual cat things that happen to cats; And likewise, these are all the unusual people-things that happen to people who are watching others that are also experiencing unusual people-symptoms that which happen to people. And its like, isnt there like an obvious meta solution to all of this... For example, anything that my mom sees on the cat is in her mind- a flea... if she bites herself then rest assured, in her mind it'll be due to fleas. Likewise, i would have these friends who would experience whatever they were going through, but the non-meta solutions they kept coming up w/ were that it was a virus or something - you know, unusual experiences that prompted'em to conclude some temporary answer to a problem... And, then that answer becomes the canonical solution from there on out, even if its cyclically wrong... Wrong why?... Well lets continue.... Sometimes there's no solution, sometimes its more like a scenario where too many things are happening, and not one main thing can be concluded as the possible issue - you have to just go with your gut. I keep thinking about life as this random, chaotic situation that is solved by incrementally allowing conclusions to bubble up, that which may not necessarily be right, but they continue to be some kind of action. Actions are like, things that happen in the game_world from something you triggered (or from something else that triggered something else...) Like... They may not necessarily conform to a truth or a fact but they are just actions that remain active, existent. They are for all intents and purposes, a truth or fact to you-or for that time being. You have to be open to the possibility that everything is happening due to actions that may or may not make sense, but that they are like these cyclical decisions that inhabit the game_world. They dont necessarily mean anything. And when they live out their lifetime, they'll be replaced by an equally, rationally-sounding thing that you think is canon to real-rational-reality. It is, in one sense or another, baked in, hardcoded into the fabric - i.e. that place where everything doesnt actually make sense, since you are on to discovering the fact (... while you're experiencing it.) We kindve-sortve taken that for granted, because it happens so briefly. Let us try now... to put this stuff into words, so we can read them, understand them- let them sink in and try to bring them into our dreams to see what is going on. Are dreams are doing alot of work to rearrange things, and create scenes that dont make sense. My dreams are painful. I cant sleep for more than an hour without it just going haywire. I think its like, we just dont understand ourselves, whats going on-and for good reason, right?... Its too chaotix - its like... How can you experience the thing, as the thing you want to see change, or rather... How can you identify what those things are if they are essential components that you've been building up for so long... changing, being modulated... I just felt the need to somehow get the ball rolling on this subject, and this topic specifically. Hopefully others will be able to understand it better and re-explain it from their point of view.

We should have like... a "challenge everything" formula, or just a line of questioning ready to go when you need it, starting with things that are true in this universe like, "Are days of the week real" -like, is sunday a distinct day on earth? Then go to... something like, "Is [month: day: hrs: min: seconds] real. Is that (to you) saying something about the state of things in reality? Or is it a conceptual idea/space, a belief we hold onto in order to not be... like... lost in some other space. This would bring me into a new domain of questioning, but thats like, the *intro* that we can communicate about.

Do yous ever think about like, whats really going on here. On one half, you have this very consistent, very stable life where its predictable. You wake, and do whatever it is you do each day. Then you're tired, tired of that non sense, and you go to imagination land, subsequent images of things that shouldnt make sense are (for all intensive purposes) a reality. And the same way you were 'tired', whatever that means you start to question aspects of this 37-layer-deep dream, or something happens that signifies the next moment of you 'coming to'... And in that now awakened, and responsive last save-state, you do it over again. Like, what is that. Thats not an arbitrary thing, that has to be like a machine of some kind that doesnt exist without one half strolling along w/ consistency, and the other half where things get all strewn about without the recognition of self identity/or anything self-related. But at the same time it exists... just like... perpetually... why... like, can we find out.... like when you were born as a clean slate, what was that?...

i get lost in "positive v. negative", in terms of like... asking those big questions, "how can anything be if i cant even properly descern whats a "this" thing or a "that" thing... like, the cascade that it goes by is constantly being requestioned and thrown back into some staggered state like uhhhmm.... "what is going on", -is my question still... like, in terms of birth, how we were like "max" calm, what is that?... ... ... is what im tryina say.

Do we have a spokes person for someone who inspires people to, aside from integrating with, learn the more general thing that makes ai interesting (as well as that information we need to gleam from it to build all the *rudiments* its generating into separate applications) therein reaching a stage where it is then irrelevant? does that person exist yet?... ill be that person, i dont care, im crazy.

is there anything unique we can do to express ourselves that Ai cannot already accomplish/ thereby invalidating, or dismissing those forms of expression. Its difficult to imagine what those things could be. For example, there's things where you have very specific things that we might consider as an expression of some kind, like maybe the discovery/scientific-related things that are direct products of human accomplishment. Maybe in the future that is more accessible/ interactive thing, that only really applies to humans, since it takes humans to explain those chemical-related experiences for example. So i guess another way to phrase it is, is there anything we can do that makes ai irrelevant.

What we need to do is make a story, or a compilation that we can then make into a story, of all our lives now, and then in some distant, magical land where we havent screwed up yet, we talk to those versions of us, therein trying to convince ourselves of whats to come, therein making something thats substantially related to those places (thoughts and feeling etc) that existed prior.... And possibly multiple intrusions because its like, it takes several round trips to convince yourself. Its like, the first one could have been an hallucination... Where as the 2nd or 3rd you that shows up its like, "okay why did myself keep visiting myself". Or for our next dream journal, i think its worth trying to get that idea to sink in, and that adds alot of intent/direction... even if you havent screwed up yet its a good way to penitrate dreams if they're all over the place and hard to pin down so to speak.

If i could actually remember what would be considered my very first experiences, i could extrapolate that and build/present a very nice map of everything. alls i remember is flashes of scenes of grass outside, or layouts of houses inside and nothing prior, or after, that really connects, just like, its own void of memory... that which also makes no sense, I can say, at some point there was a more obvious reason to explicitly remember things as opposed to living in a void without rememberances, but thats like, not analogous to anything helpful i dont think.

@abrakamowse Let me try to extrapolate that into my new form, and tell me how it sounds... The "i" is the creator of all things, albeit subliminal, or unaware (a kindve staggered between the realization of) whether or not what we are, who we are or what we could be is. And so we are here, not as an idea of what it means to be here but more like what it is to be in a dream where you are just there. When the "i" is just there, the "i" is within the kind of experience or mindset where you are performing or experiencing, and those are the underlying principles that keep that force churning. @Ishanga Tell me how this sounds... We have the kind of freewill that is only limited by those ideas themselves, that is, to conjure some possibility or 'way something should be', creates the type of boundary that is then - like an island or peninsula, where the surrounding waters are those ideas that 'could have been', but didnt - so we're partly in - and partly outside, bounded in some way, free in others. As we spin on this round (sometimes oblong in motion) land mass, pushed by magical void-stuff of unimaginable perpetuity, we take for granted what REALLY is important. But then again, its an almost necessary thing to have existed in the first place, that is, to be involved in some sortve happenings that may or may not be important stuff, and how would we even know until we've found out it was right or wrong much later. If that sounds right or partly, then i conclude one lasting thought. When i was little, i didnt learn things individually. Instead i took 'strings' or phrases of words and imitated the sound of those strings without meaning. That in itself is like a principle of experience, or one aspect that we could say follows the "Is-ness" of being here: First we're here, Second we're storing that impression into the fabric and then keeping it alive. Deriving from that we then might say, "that is what we are.. some sortve fabric?... Or texture-like"

@Realms of Wonder Hey. Hi Realms of wonder. Elaborate on that, you might be on to something. I thought id add one more example, and thats in the fields of psychology or psychiatry (whatever) whichever one requires the kind of shared experience/understanding that you wouldnt want an ai to be involved in. Like, those situations where it depends on the type of communication that is required by shared human experiences and whatknot.

I watched a video today, and learned how nothing ever "enters" a blackhole. Perhaps i didnt understand it properly, but if you consider two points ~ wherein, one person is at a point of view that they are close-up to the blackhole, and another is observing from afar, wouldnt it then be the case that no matter where you are, alls you would ever see is things frozen in time/never moving and never "entering", even relative to the closest point where light is also being distorted and "not appearing", i.e. the darkness of the blackhole. Because, is there not a difference in terms of when you first start seeing things come to a halting stop, and you yourself being an item within that halting stop. And again i phrase it like that as it is interesting, and maybe yous can figure out whats wrong w/ the analogy/ wrong with my phrasing or just correct me if im wrong.

"dont seek so much to find the answer as much as to understand the question better" -fortune cookie from today

Ha, interesting. Yeah usually the first time is gonna be the best one, simply because you didnt know what to expect. Anything else and now your brain knows well, and it doesnt have that naivity factor. I find myself trying to meditate these days and see what is possible to emulate effects just by focusing all the energy into the temple lobes/center of the brain... if theres a way to effect the brain in a salvia-like way, that'd be interesting cause its like, of all things - thats an odd maneuver to even think of/propose.

They probably said this, but the trip sitter, theyll help you like, if you accidently stand up or lay down on your face (stuff like that) if your alone, im an expert on being alone... first off, a song with a bass drum is key, get that ready... you wont hear the song, but youll become both the song, + whatever the last image you seen out your eyes before the salvia kicked in.... you wont be able to gauge what your doing alone, so you mine as well just lay down on your back as your holding it in... pack a good amount so you dont burn it and taste something offensive, if it taste bad you did something wrong. thirdly, you should double check things.... such as, if you live w/ someone, dont leave the salvia bag out in the open... whatever deals w/ anxiety in the brain can overide that claustrum area and bring you out of the trip (theres like a bunch of subconscious receptors that can override each other, for better or worse) fourthly, you should do it at a time when you are ready. it feels very rough and awkward, so you kinda wanna be at a point where you dont mind exploring that side of things.

Iuno if any of yous have a reocurring theme/pattern that seems to be like, the bedrock of all subsequent experiences on lsd or mushrooms (if so, feel free to share) but ive seen the same thing every time... and when i watch videos of the golden ratio/fibonacci spiraling dots (you can look up the simulation/animation on desmos or something) i find myself trying to recollect/remember if what im seeing is either... (1) perfect cylindrical dots that move in orbit around each other, or (2) this illusion of dots moving around each other that makes it look as if they were, more like the fibonacci spiral. (i realize that is only one way to depict fibonacci numbers or the golden ratio, however im not terribly interested in that) unless of course im wrong, and it is what i was seeing... reason being, is it can seem quite similar, and i was hoping others have seen the same thing, so i can get an idea which one is more common... ... that is, if what you seen was either (dots in a perfect orbit, or some sortve fibonacci dots without a center dot breaking the illusion) As to me, those imply two different mathematical perspectives/roads to look into... obviously im looking at both regardless.