Lila9

They did even worse than that to Jews, and if they could they would have done more. October 7 was the peak of it. They literally shot living people genitals and breasts, shot parents in front of their children and vise versa, gang raped women and burned living people. The level of cruelty can't really be comparible. You compare cases of a few radical Jews which saddens most of the Israelies given that it really happened, to a terror policy against Jews and Israel that many Palestinians, if not the majority of the Palestinians, were ok with and celebrated on the streets.

I asked you a question first and you haven't answered it, so you are not in a place to say that I don't answer your questions. Answer my question first and then I will answer yours, I really want to know. Do you care about other Palestinians outside of Israel territory? Or do you close your eyes to the mistreatment of Palestinians outside of Israel because they are mistreated by non Israelies? If you say that Israel doesn't have the right to exist because of the way it exists now, for me it means that you believe Israel has no right to exist. You can't sugarcoat it. You've tried I know, but your truth is obvious for me. No more word games are required. Are there more countries you believe have no right to exist the way they exist? Or Israel is the only one? If Israel's existence is not in your best interest, and you consume this great amount of cherry picked content on social media to rationalize your bias, I don't think that you are in a place to call me a propagandist. This is very childish and disrespectful indeed, to call someone you don't agree with a propagandist. It also shows that you don't want to learn and make a productive discussion with those whose their lives are directly affected by the conflict. It seems you just want to hold your bias close to your chest, and it also seems that you have the arrogance to look from the far distance and cancel our perspective completely by calling it a propaganda just because it doesn't match your bias. I speak my very reality and the reality of people here who care about Israel and love it. We are mainly fueled by love to Israel, not by hatred to Palestinians. This is the motivation. Don't fool yourself by calling your opinions objective and more logical, because your opinions about the conflict based on emotional motivation. Behind logic there are emotional motivations. This is why I asked you what I asked you, to understand your fundamental emotional motivation of your opinions about the conflict, is this love or hatred? I'm aware of the flaws of Israel and the problems here, it's not perfect, but it's not the demon you draw. There is no shame in emotions and love, I didn't know that it's a crime to support the country I live in and I also didn't know that you are holding the ultimate truth and everything that doesn't match your biased and limited perspective is a propaganda. I don't try to convince you in my truth, I'm fine with you thinking differently than me, and feeling differently than me, I share what I know, take it or leave it.

I wouldn't say that Israel acted with great wisdom, but I can't say that Israel acted purely on emotions either. If Israel acted purely on emotions, there was no Palestinian left alive. On both Gaza and the West Bank. because if Israel's response matched the emotional suffering Israel has experienced because of the October 7 attack, that would be the outcome, no life on Gaza and the West Bank. It's easy to judge from outside, when your safety and the safety of your loved ones isn't at risk. It's easy to say, from your pov that you would have done this instead of that, because you are not emotionally involved, because the survival and safety of Israel is not in your best interest. It's just a country with people for you and whether it will be safe or at risk won't affect your life and survival that much. This is why it's easy for you to talk about logic and cold calculations. I'm not disrespecting logic and calculations, I think that strategy and certain emotional distance is required to get good results and it's part of the solution. And I think that given the circumstances, Israel's response is quite logical. I know that you and others here expect super hero holistic, systemic stage yellow solution to the conflict, coming from Israel, but you need to understand that Israel has limitations as well, Israel's government and army are not yellow to pull of such solutions. There is no government in the world who is like that, currently. Not in your country, and not in any country. That's rare. A country is considered very lucky if it has at least one person in the government with stage yellow thinking. Israel's government has mainly blue/orange values while the military has orange values mainly. Israel's neighbors are not Sweden or Denmark, so Israel cannot allow themselves to appear too indifferent to terror because this seen as weakness in this region and it's very easily gets exploited. In fact, Israel's recent indifference until the October 7 attack was what gave Hamas the opportunity to commit the attack. With neighbors such Hamas, you can't get to a peaceful solution, or reconciliation. It's either they win and you lose or you lose and they win. Israel tried to be peaceful, it didn't work, it made things worse for Israel, it gave Hamas the opportunity to become stronger and become more dangerous. It's not to say that Israel can't be criticized. That's valid. But there is a serious problem if Israel is the only one who gets critized. It shows that the criticism is not objective and heavily biased, fueld by ill intentions.

These refugees who are living in other Arab countries, not in Israel. Do you care about them? Have you bothered to check their conditions? Is your motivation for advocating for the rights of the Palestinians in Israel in particular, stems from your love to the Palestinians as a group or your hatred towards Israelies? If you love and care about Palestinians, then you should love and care about all the Palestinians elsewhere and put accountable not only Israel for mistreating them, but all the countries who have them, for mistreating them because they do mistreat them and worse than Israel could ever imagine. If you care only about the Palestinians in Israel, even though there are other Palestinian refugees in suffering, then it might be because you don't like Israel, and your main motivation is hatred for Israel rather than love for Palestinians.

It lights up not only this thread but the entire forum 🕎🌞

Yet, with all of your wording, it summes up to a war of values. Living in a society with stage red values vs stage orange, I don't even need to explain what are the differences because I assume you know, and which is better to live in. Relatively, not ideally. If you have to choose, most likely it would be orange. And it's not wise to be letinant with stage red. This is the flaw of green, this demonization of self defense, of having healthy bounderies, of being ruthless with those who are ruthless with you.

They were kiked out as a "revenge". They didn't welcomed them with "open arms". They were suspicious of them and terrorized them since the presence of the Othman empire because they felt intimidated.

1. What else can be done? There were great attempts of Israel to make peace but they still wanted to destroy Israel, even more than ever. No matter what is done to improve the situation, they always want to destroy. 2. They abuse Israel because they are fueled by toxic ideology, by low and destructive values. There was peace before the October 7 attack. They ruined it. They don't give a fuck about peace, unfortunately. Don't you understand that not everything in life can be explained by logic? That humans are irrational creatures? That not everything in life can be explained by cause and effect? That there is devilry in the world which is fueled by irrational and toxic beliefs which cannot be resolved by tolerating it and giving the other cheek?

Yes lol But better to be 6 than 4. Hamas is the one who always starting the wars with Israel. Yes I am. My perspective and the perspective of other Israelies here is valid. Just because we live here doesn't mean that our perspective isn't valid or 'too biased' to be taken seriously. I will keep to talk enthusiastically about the truth that I see and experience, and gladly share it.

What about the Palestinian refugees in Egypt, Syria, Jordon, Labanon? Or other non Palestinian refugees in the world? Anybody cares about them? Or they are not important enough? 😕

This. If to look at facts rather than bias and imagination we can see that Israel doesn't want wars but peace and safety. Israel wants to be left alone and thrive for the sake of it, like any other western country. While the other side wants to take all of Israel by eliminating everyone in it to build a toxic Islamic state. It doesn't want to develop, evolve spiritually, have a quality life, peace, happiness. It rejects science, human rights, any values which are not Muslim and religious. It could have done that, if it invested the billions poured into Palestine to thrive rather than starting wars. Seems like it only wants to die, kill and destroy. It can't bear the thought of development or evolving. It clings to ill feelings from the past, can't see beyond its hatred and contempt to Israel, Jews, America, the west. Too proud and arrogant, couldn't understand that there is much greater suffering in the world, that there are nations who faced much more brutality than they could ever imagine during the entire human history. That they are themselves the offspring of one of the greatest agressors in the world. And the efforts to compare the Nakba to the Holocaust, are so manipulative and insulting. It wasn't even 1% of the holocaust, or any other real genocide in the history. Yes, it was sad and humiliating, Muslims have pride, I get it, but they are not the first ones loosing their homes and not the last ones, and just because their granny lost his property somewhere in 1948 doesn't mean that they are entitled to kill innocents like ISIS.

850,000,000 Jews were expelled from Arab countries. In 1948, their homes were occupied by Muslim Arabs in the middle east and North Africa. Not to mention all the territory and homes Jews lost during the WW2 across Europe. Could they just go and commit terror attacks against innocent Arabs across the middle east? Across Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Yemen? Across Europe? Germany, Poland? Could they just go and rape them, burn them and kidnap them? Would that be a legitimate resistance? If Israel doesn't belong to Jews, then these territories across the middle east and Europe which were occupied by Muslims and Christians must belong to them. No? There was a time when their grandparents or great-grandparents lived there, even though they never lived there themselves, but according to the Palestinian logic, it must belong to them if their grandparents used to live there. No? If Jews should leave Israel and Free Palestine 'from the river to the sea' (Jordan river and the Mediterranean sea btw, for those who have no idea what river and what sea) is that mean that the Jewish occupied homes across the middle east, Europe and North Africa should be free too? 🤔

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_movement There are Yemeni terrorists who bomb ships with goods coming to Israel. And bomb Israel from the southern side. They are doing that everyday. Their moto is: "Death to America, death to Israel, curse on the Jews and victory to Islam" Same values as... Hamas. They are responsible for the expulsion of the last Jewish families in Yemen. And they are not occupied by Jews. Any excuses to their toxic ideology, antisemitism, anti American agenda, and Muslim superiority agenda?

I get you. You have a common sense and you are able to see the big picture and understand that it's a war of barbaric values against more conscious ones. And you prefer the conscious ones, obviously, because that's how society evolve. You are on the sane spectrum of humanity.

Peace नमस्ते שלום السلام عليكم Мир

By these definitions, Hamas is comiting genocide as well. Killing Israeli people, innocent civilians, causing them serious bodily and mental harm (October 7 massacre was the peak of it) and separating children from the group by kidnapping them. If you are fair and objective you should address this as well. If there is harm for both sides, it looks like a war, not genocide. Yes Israel has more military power. Just because it has more power doesn't mean that it's more ill intentioned. Per Hamas charter all the Jews should be eliminated, and Israel should be an Islamic state, if they had the military power to do that, they would do that. Factually their population only increases. Which means that there is no birth prevention policy and no genocide. How can be genocide and birth prevention policy when the population only increases? And not slowly. Not slowly at all, damn, they can easily solve the birth rate problem in the western world. Only because some intellectuals and theoraticans say that, doesn't mean it's true. There are intellectuals and theoraticans who condtridict them.

Indeed. This is a strong statement.

I was in disbelief and so my entire school and people who knew him because he was so young and so alive. We were sad and speechless at his funeral. Nobody knew how to react or what to say, we were kids who just graduated from school and some of us (me included) just joined to the army. His mother's reaction was heartbreaking, I will never forget her crying, she was a single mother and he was her only son. I'm sorry to hear about your friend who was killed during the operation, these daily news about soliders or kidnapped citizens who were killed in Gaza make me feel bad. This is very risky to serve in Gaza, I full of gratitude and respect towards all of them and pray that there wouldn't be more deaths.

Good to know 🥰 Wow I didn't know that Galkin and his wife Pugacheva are in Israel. He speaks words of wisdom, it's so comforting given the situation.

The thing is that these buildings shown in the video are very likely were empty of people because people evacuated. They were bombed to allow IDF to navigate in Gaza more easily as Gaza is very dense.

@Nivsch Lol that's fine. I wrote too much. Good night!

First clip- It can be that the entire building contains terrorists/weapons, there is no contradiction. The Free Palestine statement at the end is awkward given it's calling for ethnical cleansing. Second clip- Just another Jewish American who is anti Israel. And being a son of some Israeli general somewhere in the 6-days war isn't enough experience to claim what he claims. If you want a better perspective on both Hamas and IDF you should read the book "Son of Hamas" or watch the interview in my signature, this man worked both for Hamas and IDF, he has more experience and better perspective on the conflict.

Thank you 😍 I agree, it's difficult to see so many bs spread around about Israel from people who have never spend a day in their lives here and don't know where Israel is on the map. I'm Jewish (from a Russian and Asian origin, my parents immigrated from the Soviet Union because they faced antisemitism and life threats) but there are many Arabs where I live as I live in an area of Jews, Christians and Muslims. They are my neighbors, friends, colleagues. I have a female Christian Arab friend who is married to a Jewish man. I have a Jewish female friend who is married to a Christian Arab man. They celebrate both Christian and Jewish holidays. I have religious and non religious female Muslim friends who I've learned a lot from and I know a bit Arabic thanks to them. I taught them some Russian, they love the Russian language. I have the sweetest Muslim religious friend, Muna, (who I can talk about forever) which wanted her husband to take her, me and her daughter to Jenin (In the West Bank as you know) to do shopping because everything is much cheaper there than in Israel. But her husband was concerned about my safety there and he honestly said that maybe it's not a good idea for me to be there as it puts me at risk because I'm Jewish. I can keep and tell about my life in Israel, about the colorfulness, the warmth of people here, the diversity in cultures and sub cultures, the love of animals, the humor, and my experience from everyone and every city here, I can talk about the things people don't hear in the mainstream media all the pros and cons, but it's going to be soooo long. So I would stop here. This is my very reality, that's why I find it laughble when people say Israel is an Apartheid. To say that everything is perfect? Not, there are Arabs who identify themselves as Palestinians or both as Israeli and Palestinians, it varies and it's fine. There are also a few problems in the Arab community, especially the Muslim, lots of crimes and curropted leadership which is a known problem in Israel, as you know. Most of the Arabs I know take the Israeli side and feel angry and sad when there are news about some terror attacks done by Hamas. Because Hamas doesn't discriminate between Israeli Arabs and Jews, Hamas have killed and kidnapped Israeli Arabs as well, that's why some of the Israeli Arabs serve in the army, because they understand that we are all in the same danger. I personally know a few people who were killed by terror attacks, one of them was a boy from my class who was stabbed to death in a bus, during his sleep by a young Palestinian from the WB, this was a bus that I used very often at that time.

Usually I don't feel comfortable to say where I am from because I'm a private person in general and I try to keep this is vague as possible. But since you are asking me directly and I can't lie to you, I'm actually an Israeli, live in Israel, I served in the Israeli army a few years ago and I still can vividly remember the 2006 Lebanon war when I was a child and Hezbollah bombed us. This is why I so passionate about the subject, because I speak from my perspective as an Israeli, same as you are.

There was a common post on social media with a photo of an Israeli soldier talking to an elderly Palestinian man and another photo of his dead body claiming according to Hamas that the Israeli solider shoot him right after the photo was taken (even though the shirt on his dead body was different from the shirt shown on the photo with the solider). This man was killed by Hamas a day or two after the photo with the solider was taken. He was killed because of his innocent convo with the Israeli solider (which probably asked him how he is etc) was interpreted by Hamas as "cooperation with Israel". It seems pretty dangerous to either say something wrong about Hamas and looking friendly with Israeli soliders. 🌞🙌 I believe the majority of Israel dislike Netanyahu. It's not unique to the radical leftists in the video who are adding their leftist agenda. They believe they are awake but some would argue they are deep in their sleep.