Lila9

One day we will be at that place collectively, but it wouldn't happen immediately and by any force or persuasion. It happens gradually every single day, we are constantly moving to there as a human collective, not necessarily linearly.

That's really funny, I see all these protestors for freedom for Palestine having no clue about what they protesting about. All they know is to throw words that sounds bad to the westerns ears, like occupation and operssion and blame Israel for its mere existence. This guy who renamed Judea to Palestine had no clue what mess he created 😂 If the name Judea wasn't changed, perhaps it was eaiser to convince the world about the ancient relation of Jews to this land.

Palestinians were asked when Palestine was established:

I acknowledge that innocent civilians being killed in Gaza and it's heartbreaking. Do Israel has the intention of killing innocents as a collective punishment? I don't know and I don't think so because if they did that they wouldn't bother to request Palestinians to evacuate.

Objective truth would also address the war crimes Hamas commits against Israeli and Palestinian people instead of justifying them.

I agree that being oppressed cause rage. It's natural. But you portray a picture in which Israel is the only oppressor of Palestinians and every negative thing in their lives is because of Israel. It's very simplistic view, even black and white. If you talk about oppression of the Palestinians seriously, you have to address their leadership throughout the time which is either curropted or extremely radical or both and is responsible for most of their misery, poverty and underdevelopment, and it's not helping that their own leadership systemically convince Palestinians that all the source of their misery is Israel so they would not be motivated to rebel against their leadership and at the same time to be angry enough at Israel to commit even worse crimes against innocent Israeli people. Even Mossab Hassan Yousef which is the son of Hamas founder said that Palestinians are brainwashed to blame Israel for their oppression while their biggest oppressors are their leaders and he knows better than both of us as he actually grew up there and saw how they operate, how they treat people. You also have to address Hamas usage of places like hospitals, schools, residential building as arsenals, control rooms, hiding place for terrorists knowngly they risking Palestinians.

The world sees Israel as a bully but from Israel pov they are the victim as it's a one Jewish country against a few Muslim Arab countries who are against it's existence. The definition of who is the bully and who is the abuser is not 100% clear as every side interprets things differently and operates from their own survival bias. And the notion that Israel has stolen the land from Palestinians is questionable either as from Israel pov, some terertories were purchased by Zionists from Arabs (even though it was prohibited by their leadership) while the rest was given by the British Mandate, as there was no Palestinian country at that time. Questions like the following questions arise: What is Palestine? When and by whom the Palestinian state was founded? What were the borders of this state? What was its capital? What were its major cities? What form did its government have? Are the people called Palestinians are something other than generic Arabs gathered from the surrounding areas? If do, what they are? Who they are?

Hamas ideology is to have the entire Israel and to eliminate all the Jews there, no less. From their stage of development, Israel's letinant approach interpretated as weakness and a proof that their aggressive methods, aka Jihad, do work. And it's grounded in history, when Israel evacuated its people from Gaza streep and give it to the Palestinians, Hamas who existed at that time but wasn't dominant, became stronger and more radicalized. Being letinant with this stage of development is not healthy, country should set its healthy bounderies if it wants to exists. Being letinant at this stage it's like helping to a psychopath who wants to kill you, kill you faster, it's like helping him to kill you. The solution is first to eliminate Hamas and then to find a better leadership for Gaza, it has to be someone strong with western values, not necessarily Israel. It should be someone who would take care of the Palestinians there, protect them from extremists, set real plan of making this place more developed. Because currently they are brainwashed from school to hate Jews and to see killing Jews as something religiously good rather than studying English, Math and other things that would make them normal and productive part of human society. At this stage of moderate leadership there will be the real option to re-negotiate about a two state solution.

@Emerald I understand. If the situation was flipped and if the middle east would have containted only Jews countries, wouldn't it be expected from them to give some aid and open their gates to the oppressed Jewish minority? Because currently, no Arab country wants to "save" the oppressed Palestinians, and why so? Why it's expected only from Israel to solve this conflict and find a solution even at the expense of its people's lives? While the solutions can be only achieved by cooperation of a few countries. I don't think that Hamas represents all the Palestinians, but there is a mindest which support the growth of such radicalism and not only in what we call Palestine but in the entire middle east, and not necessarily in oppressed minorities.

This ZAKA guy talked about bodies that look tortured, it can be done in various ways, it can be done by burning and it can be done by shooting the body many times until it unrecognizable. It was admitted by the arrested Hamas terrorists that they shotcivilians many times and burned homes, look at the longer version of the interviews I shared above.

You are naive for believing that Hamas are nice people. They themselves confessed about the horrible things they did on the 7th of October: Edit: This is the full version of the interviews:

What about "Pallywood"? People in Gaza actively faking death and injury? And what about the Al Madani hospital that was bombed by the Islamic Jihad but Hamas automatically blamed Israel? It makes me wonder about how many deaths in Gaza were blamed on Israel while it wasn't Israel's falut? I understand that people share propaganda from both sides but there are different types of propaganda, some of them are more rooted in reality than others while some of them are completely twisted from reality. And given the level of development of each side, for me, the propaganda of Hamas seems much less reliable than the one of the IDF.

Most people choose sides and most of the people who say they don't chose side, are either don't know much about the conflict, lie to appear more open, or not aware to that they have already chose side. I can see and understand both perspectives and empathize with people on the human level, yet, I choose to support one above the other, because it more represents my values and world view, especially when their value system has more integrity than of the other side.

It's hard for me to believe that they would lie about such things. On the other hand, it seems for me that you consider everything they say as questionable, while when there is report about 2000 children killed in Gaza you automatically believe.

This guy is not just a random guy from the street but he is volunteering in ZAKA which is an organization in Israel which evacuating these bodies and he shares his experience, what he have seen. There are many photos on the internet, of burned people and babies, video tours of dead bodies laying, I don't think it's allowed to share such things here but if you want to find it, use Google and you will get there. If you don't want to believe to it, then no matter what evidence you will be presented with, you will not believe to it so it's useless to even try and convince you that this has happened. People deny Holocaust until these days, you know, and there is lot of evidence for it in writing, pictures and videos. People also deny the level of cruelty 6 millions Jews were murdered by, or deny that the number was actually 6 millions. There are many Jewish holocaust survivors who talk openly about horrible things that happened to them during the Holocaust, and yet, some people would still deny this and will not believe them.

Israel always listened to Hamas walkie talkies to predict such things. According to American research, a year ago Israel decided not to do that anymore, maybe because it was seen as a waste of time and money as the area was pretty quiet for the last years. They decided to focus more on the North and the West Bank. Now they realized their mistake and the importance of eavesdropping on Hamas. They underestimated their enemies.

They are not bloodthirsty, they are not interested in killing for the sake of it. The government might be blue rn but the army is orange and operates more startigically and methodically rather than impulsively killing as much people as possible. If it has this goal, to eliminate Palestinians they would have already killed the entire population both in Gaza and the West Bank with their technology. They had 70 years to do so and yet, Palestinian population is still here. Israel army has it's own methods, tools and technology to follow terrorists and to know exactly where they are.

Israel doesn't seem to bomb randomly. In the first link you give, there weren't people in the building and this building was very likely bombed because some Hamas control rooms there, Hamas arsenal or tunnel openings. In the second link which Israel bombed ambulances, according to Israel, there weren't innocent injured civilians in them but Hamas terrorists who hide in these ambulances. It's not to say that Israel doesn't kill innocent civilians when targeting Hamas or that that's ok. This is the unfortunate outcome of this war. But, I don't agree that Israel just bombing Gaza randomly, targeting hospitals for the sake of killing innocents, and intentionally wants to kill as much as innocent civilians as it could, this narrative seems not grounded in reality.

Of course they do, no doubt. But the question is how they do that? If they attack non combats during their sleep, it's problematic and isn't count as defense but as an unsustified attack. If they defend themselves from someone who put gun on their head, throw rocks on them, try to kill or hurt them in some way, sure, they have the right to attack back to save their lives, no question. But if they throw rocks on soldiers and on settlers with the intention to kill or hurt them, which is what often happens in the west bank, these settlers and soliders have the right to defend themselves too. The occupation wouldn't end with being more violent towards Israel as Israel legitimately will be become more rigid in order to defend itself. The occupation would end by becoming more developed like Israel, by embracing more liberal, secular, nationalistic and western values which they are currently rejecting in favor of more radical Islamic values, the idea of "Jihad". Not all Palestinians are occupied, there is Gaza which isn't occupied and extremists freely grow there, there are Arabs in Israel who idenify themselves as Palestinians and receive all the rights a civilian can receive and it's clearly doesn't count as occupation. The West Bank is occupied and is under Israel's military control and thanks to that extremists don't grow too much there. It's arguable because Israel doesn't occupy Gaza, and yet there are extremities. When people have such radical and deadly ideology it won't die once you give them more freedom but it will grow faster and stronger. This is the concern. So maybe in this particular case, it's safer for Israel to occupy Gaza or to have it under UN leadership or any authority that will prevent Gaza from being ruled by stage red radicals with low set of values and a great danger to their surroundings.

Are you talking seriously or it's a sarcastic remark? And yes the history is more complex and nuanced than it might appear.

@Nivsch It's a very good point, and I agree that individuals may subconsciously seek to integrate primal stages they haven't had the opportunity to integrate growing up in Western society, by supporting Palestine and justifying Hamas.

When you live with bloodthirsty terrorists who would like to eliminate you, it's either puting bounderies between you and them and using your military to keep them under control or not to do that and be massacred in your sleep. The massacre came from Gaza which is not occupied by Israel.

Hamas attack: 80% of bodies were tortured: