Lila9

100%

No, I'm saying that other Arab countries don't want them because they make troubles in other Arab countries as well.

They have a collective trauma to heal as well. But they have already started their healing process by building a beautiful, democratic and progressive country with their own hands, which is a good start.

I didn't say that Hamas represents Palestinian people. But Palestinian people as a collective have such mindset that allows them to create and accept this kind of leadership.

I've found why, they scared of Palestinian extremities. Seems they have already tried to accept Palestinian refugees in the past, but it led to terrible outcome and put themselves in danger.

This comparison between Hamas and IDF is poor. We talk about totally different levels of development, different strategy and different motivations. You can say what you want about IDF but I've never seen them desecrate bodies or parading naked dead Muslim women in Tel Aviv while people there cheering them.

Jews were displaced from many countries. Could they just go to there and attack innocent people in the countries they were displaced from because of that? If not, then why Arabs can and it will be ok? Especially while there are so many Arab countries who could let them in, why don't they let them in if they so care about them? There are so many Muslim Arab countries, nobody's question their existence, no one question Palestine's right for existence, even though there are so many of them, yet, Israel, the only Jewish country, is always in doubt? If it was the opposite, with one Muslim Arab country with Jewish refugees, in the middle of many Jews countries, everyone would pressure the Jewish countries to let the Jews refugees in instead of abusing the one Muslim country, from all sides, and question its existence. Why only Israel always in question? Countries in the world were built upon tremendous abuse and suffer, more than Palestinians could ever experience and yet, nobody's question them. Why these always the Jews who are get questioned? My conclusion is that there are antisemitic beliefs that are deeply integrated in the collective psyche. And the solution wouldn't be to eliminate Jews and to fight them and not allow them to exit but to accept them, to realize their right to have their own country. Yes, their country. This is only one, which is Israel. From Jesus days and prior to that. And turn the jelousy of them into motivation, to be better. If you look at their history, you realize that on the collective level, Jews are great manifastors who rock and roll the game of survival and this should be as inspiration, not something to hate or detest. Or fight impulsively. If Palestine and the Arab world would have understood that, there wouldn't have such ugly war between them. This conflict literally based on the difficulty of the Muslim Arab world to accept a Jewish country.

@Gennadiy1981 @Nivsch Your experience is valid and important. Yes, it feels like you are talking to a wall right now, I also feel this as well but I'm sure your comments as Israelies help to people who're reading it and don't know much about the conflict to have a better perspective. If at least one person here became wiser and more educated about this conflict, thanks to you, maybe it's not that useless after all. If you choose to not participate, I understand. This can be emotionally draining to argue with people who question Israel's right to exist because of some irrational, primitive and antisemitic beliefs which are very difficult to remove.

I heard about it either. I also heard evidence about a 14-15 years old girl who was found dead, shot in the head, lying on her belly without pants with legs spread apart and cum on her back.

What are the oldest tricks in the book? Why so miser with words? Explain yourself. I'm surprised that someone is justifyng burning people, beheading babies, killing women, raping them, parading dead women in Gaza while the crowed is spitting on them only because they happen to be Jews living in Israel. Seems odd for the 21th century. I don't believe that this barbaric behavior can be ever justified. Do you have radical love for terrorists like Hamas but not for innocent people who happen to live in Israel? And you preach about radical love and mind games? Have you ever bothered taking a look in your mind before you judge the minds of others?

Please, I'm not going to look into your posts now. It seems that you forgot some things. Didn't you blame Israel for the massacre committed by Hamas? Because of the Palestinians conditions or something? I don't even justify it now, I don't justify it when 1 innocent civilian killed, there is no justification for that. But I am aware that Hamas doesn't make it easier for Israel and deliberately uses Palestinians to make Israel look less moral than it actually is. My criticism is about people who are so blinded with hatred towards Israel that they don't put Hamas accantubale to their crimes against Palestinians and even protect them and natively see them as innocent fighters. And my criticism is also for the Arab countries who do nothing for Palestinians but complain about their conditions. So what? You are here for a while on this forum, I've never seen you commenting about non Palestinian refugees and innocent civilians being killed, which always happens. These issues didn't bother you. What if there was another Arabic country instead of Israel which is in conflict with Palestine, would you have cared? You don't know how to differentiate between people and their opinions. You think that if I don't agree with you this is a personal attack on you. This is why you are so triggered. Maybe this is the opportunity to realize that people have the soverty to think differently than you? Without personally attacking them and calling them in names? Because... well.... we are grown humans and not 5 years old children?

No, how my mind works?

By your perspective I'm retarded and MAGA and you are so enlightened and good, so why to bother arguing with me at all? Don't you have better things to do rather than debating with people you consider stupid?

But this is what you do. You have already justified Hamas in your posts by saying that everyone would act like them and you tried to make me to say that I will also act like them, lol. Perhaps you, not me. No matter what, I never beheade babies, cut body parts, rape people and burn them alive, no matter what my condition is. And it's not like you are not binary, look at your arguments and see how binary you are before pointing your fingers on me. Where I draw the line? From my perspective no one should be ever killed, my view is very naive and idealistic. But the reality of war is ugly, it's a war of survival between two cultures. To say to you that I'm happy that Innocent civilians, no matter what side are killed? Of course not. But ask yourself for a second, why do you so care about these particular people who are being killed at this particular time? After all, there are many refugees in the world, among them children who are killed in horrible ways and yet you don't talk about them at all, you don't even bother to mention them because they are not Palestinians fighting against Israel. Do you care about Palestinian people in particular? That's ok, admit that and say that you care about them in particular while any other child or innocent civilian in the world can fuck off, instead of puting yourself in this highly moralistic chair of a social justice warrior who "only cares about innocents".

I believe that most of their reports are false. They play with western's emotions, create a narrative in which Israel look like the evil and themselves as saints, freedom fighters (lol). Good manipulation, and it's really working to make people to forget the ISIS crimes they made in Israel. I don't fall to their trap. Sorry.

@Something Funny What you don't understand is that Hamas doesn't care about Palestinians and that they are using them as human shields. They literally murdered Palestinians who listened to Israel request to evacuate to save their lives. Yet, you blame Israel only. But that's ok, keep protecting Hamas, keep justifying it. You and people who think like you are the real enemies of Palestinians, you just don't understand it because you are so obsessed with hating Israel.

@Something Funny https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzFrLD9uZ2Q/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng== https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzG97bTIasW/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng== https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyyqmBloLT2/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng== https://www.instagram.com/p/Cy1OkzstOmq/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

Of course, every crime against Jews is justified. Let's eliminate them and kill all of them because they dared to build a country to save themselves from Nazis. Antisemitism is on raise. It never really disappeared.

That's why I fear "free Palestine". Imagine replacing a country like Israel with these humane values with an ISIS-Hamas dictatorship. Nightmare.

The October 7 massacre map: https://oct7map.com/

Yes, Hamas is ISIS. Wake up. They carry with them ISIS flags, they hold ISIS ideology dear to their hearts, they did ISIS like crimes in innocent people on the 7th of October. If in the past there was a doubt, now there isn't. Hamas use Palestinians cynically to reach their ultimate goal which equals to the goal of ISIS and Nazis. Hamas are a religious movement, they are Islamists who want Palestine to be under the Islamic Shriiet instead of democracy. They don't care about human rights, women rights, animals rights, LGBTQ++ rights, they are antisemitic who would like to eliminate Jews. They do care about free Palestine and Al Aqsa from the sinners in the name of Allah, even if it means to die as "shaids" and sacrifice innocent civilians on the way. They don't value life, they don't value human life, they value death. They chase homosexuals and execute them. They kill their sisters, mothers and wives when if they don't follow the Shriiet rules, they see people who took lives of innocent people as heroes. And then after they reach this goal of "free Palestine" they are going to fight with everyone else and it would be expressed in suicide bombers in LGBTQ clubs in Europe i.e. And another dictatorship in the middle east, more war, more death, more radicalized middle east. You blindly and unawarengly, out of your naivity (not only yours) support more devilry in the world if you really believe that they do what they do to make a better life in Palestine and live peacefully there. With all the billions they are holding, they could have done such a good life in Gaza and maybe even in the West Bank if they weren't a red terrorist organization, per Spiral Dynamics and this, every person with good understanding of SD, on this forum can easily see.

I'm not Jewish and I agree with you. I always was curious about why people hate or dislike Jews and I found that the reasons are pretty irrational like jealousy, annoyance that they call themselves "the chosen", racist reasons and in general, huge projection. The comments on this thread and in this forum prove the irrationally of the hatred. Antisemitic people are so triggered when people put mirror in their faces.

Why it bothers you that I support Israel? What's bad about supporting Israel? Don't I have the right or the soverty to have my own opinions? Why I have to think like you? Why do you so sure that the way you see the world is superior to mine? 1400 innocent civilians were massacred by psychopaths in such horrific ways and with such celebration only because they are Israeli. Isn't this a good enough reason to support Israel? No matter what Israel will do in this situation, there will be bad consequences. If Israel will do nothing with the terrorists, they will get stronger and commit even more horrific crimes. If it will try to eliminate them, everyone would whine about Israel doing genocide. People don't understand the difficult situation Israel is in. They don't care about Israel's survival, only about Palestinian survival. Just stop thinking, you only create more assumptions and fantasies in your mind that have nothing to do with they way I see things.

@DefinitelyNotARobot I appreciate your nuanced perspective.

This is not the same. I don't think that everyone should now leave and claim the territory where their grandfather used to live. But Israel was in unique situation, persecuted people, after holocaust who went to a land connected to them historically and by blood, there wasn't any country there at that time yet, only the British mandate, so they did what they could to built a their country for themselves. Is the execution was perfect? Hell no. Is anyone's execution of building a country is perfect? Mostly not. Is this was that popular at the news with people around the world calling it genocide? I don't know, I didn't live when it happened but I guess that most people in the world weren't aware to that.