Lila9

This ZAKA guy talked about bodies that look tortured, it can be done in various ways, it can be done by burning and it can be done by shooting the body many times until it unrecognizable. It was admitted by the arrested Hamas terrorists that they shotcivilians many times and burned homes, look at the longer version of the interviews I shared above.

You are naive for believing that Hamas are nice people. They themselves confessed about the horrible things they did on the 7th of October: Edit: This is the full version of the interviews:

What about "Pallywood"? People in Gaza actively faking death and injury? And what about the Al Madani hospital that was bombed by the Islamic Jihad but Hamas automatically blamed Israel? It makes me wonder about how many deaths in Gaza were blamed on Israel while it wasn't Israel's falut? I understand that people share propaganda from both sides but there are different types of propaganda, some of them are more rooted in reality than others while some of them are completely twisted from reality. And given the level of development of each side, for me, the propaganda of Hamas seems much less reliable than the one of the IDF.

Most people choose sides and most of the people who say they don't chose side, are either don't know much about the conflict, lie to appear more open, or not aware to that they have already chose side. I can see and understand both perspectives and empathize with people on the human level, yet, I choose to support one above the other, because it more represents my values and world view, especially when their value system has more integrity than of the other side.

It's hard for me to believe that they would lie about such things. On the other hand, it seems for me that you consider everything they say as questionable, while when there is report about 2000 children killed in Gaza you automatically believe.

This guy is not just a random guy from the street but he is volunteering in ZAKA which is an organization in Israel which evacuating these bodies and he shares his experience, what he have seen. There are many photos on the internet, of burned people and babies, video tours of dead bodies laying, I don't think it's allowed to share such things here but if you want to find it, use Google and you will get there. If you don't want to believe to it, then no matter what evidence you will be presented with, you will not believe to it so it's useless to even try and convince you that this has happened. People deny Holocaust until these days, you know, and there is lot of evidence for it in writing, pictures and videos. People also deny the level of cruelty 6 millions Jews were murdered by, or deny that the number was actually 6 millions. There are many Jewish holocaust survivors who talk openly about horrible things that happened to them during the Holocaust, and yet, some people would still deny this and will not believe them.

Israel always listened to Hamas walkie talkies to predict such things. According to American research, a year ago Israel decided not to do that anymore, maybe because it was seen as a waste of time and money as the area was pretty quiet for the last years. They decided to focus more on the North and the West Bank. Now they realized their mistake and the importance of eavesdropping on Hamas. They underestimated their enemies.

They are not bloodthirsty, they are not interested in killing for the sake of it. The government might be blue rn but the army is orange and operates more startigically and methodically rather than impulsively killing as much people as possible. If it has this goal, to eliminate Palestinians they would have already killed the entire population both in Gaza and the West Bank with their technology. They had 70 years to do so and yet, Palestinian population is still here. Israel army has it's own methods, tools and technology to follow terrorists and to know exactly where they are.

Israel doesn't seem to bomb randomly. In the first link you give, there weren't people in the building and this building was very likely bombed because some Hamas control rooms there, Hamas arsenal or tunnel openings. In the second link which Israel bombed ambulances, according to Israel, there weren't innocent injured civilians in them but Hamas terrorists who hide in these ambulances. It's not to say that Israel doesn't kill innocent civilians when targeting Hamas or that that's ok. This is the unfortunate outcome of this war. But, I don't agree that Israel just bombing Gaza randomly, targeting hospitals for the sake of killing innocents, and intentionally wants to kill as much as innocent civilians as it could, this narrative seems not grounded in reality.

Of course they do, no doubt. But the question is how they do that? If they attack non combats during their sleep, it's problematic and isn't count as defense but as an unsustified attack. If they defend themselves from someone who put gun on their head, throw rocks on them, try to kill or hurt them in some way, sure, they have the right to attack back to save their lives, no question. But if they throw rocks on soldiers and on settlers with the intention to kill or hurt them, which is what often happens in the west bank, these settlers and soliders have the right to defend themselves too. The occupation wouldn't end with being more violent towards Israel as Israel legitimately will be become more rigid in order to defend itself. The occupation would end by becoming more developed like Israel, by embracing more liberal, secular, nationalistic and western values which they are currently rejecting in favor of more radical Islamic values, the idea of "Jihad". Not all Palestinians are occupied, there is Gaza which isn't occupied and extremists freely grow there, there are Arabs in Israel who idenify themselves as Palestinians and receive all the rights a civilian can receive and it's clearly doesn't count as occupation. The West Bank is occupied and is under Israel's military control and thanks to that extremists don't grow too much there. It's arguable because Israel doesn't occupy Gaza, and yet there are extremities. When people have such radical and deadly ideology it won't die once you give them more freedom but it will grow faster and stronger. This is the concern. So maybe in this particular case, it's safer for Israel to occupy Gaza or to have it under UN leadership or any authority that will prevent Gaza from being ruled by stage red radicals with low set of values and a great danger to their surroundings.

Are you talking seriously or it's a sarcastic remark? And yes the history is more complex and nuanced than it might appear.

@Nivsch It's a very good point, and I agree that individuals may subconsciously seek to integrate primal stages they haven't had the opportunity to integrate growing up in Western society, by supporting Palestine and justifying Hamas.

When you live with bloodthirsty terrorists who would like to eliminate you, it's either puting bounderies between you and them and using your military to keep them under control or not to do that and be massacred in your sleep. The massacre came from Gaza which is not occupied by Israel.

Hamas attack: 80% of bodies were tortured:

Shani Louk's death has been confirmed after her family believed she was alive and heavily injured in Gaza's hospital which happen to be a false report:

What an Israeli Arab says about the claim that Israel is a stolen Palestinian land:

That's an amusing video which explains what westerns (stage green mostly I suppose) don't get about Hamas:

This is the same pro-palestinian narrative that I hear everywhere. Looking at both narratives, the pro-israeli and the pro-palestinian, the pro-israeli makes more sense to me. The pro-palestinian narrative sees Judaism, Zionism, Israel in general as some sort of modern nazis which I find not grounded in reality and even laughable comparison. And all of this while they portray antisemitic, radical Islamistic terror organization which resemble Nazis more (and at the same level of development as Nazis were) as something legitimate.

You think that I support Israel from ill intentions of supporting things like genocide and occupation in the classical definition but from my pov I don't see genocide nor occupation. I see a democratic country who have to deal with terrorists and put strong boundaries, to ensure its existence. And not only one group of them, there are threats from all the corners. I see country who does everything to defend its people and to treat its enemies the best it can, given the circumstances. I see country who must occupy territory, at this given moment, to ensure its safety, not necessarily to get stronger or richer. I see country of persecuted minority who wishes to exist peacefully in the land they were explled from 2000 years ago. I see this conflict not as a conflict between Israel and Palestine, but between blue/orange/green values and between purple/red/blue values. I know that conflicts are natural, especially conflicts about values which always happen. I know that I have preference for the first values rather than the second because they more suit mine. I don't think Israel is perfect, I don't think its current government is good or healthy, but I think that people put Israel on too high standards, certain standards they wouldn't have put themselves if they were in the same situation.

It's really heartwarming to watch. And yes the western comfortable life disconnects people from how bad things can be and how valuable democracy is.

Israeli Arabs got asked who do they want as their government, Israel or Palestine:

In the meantime, Hamas is bombing Israel non-stop and targeting hospitals in Israel. https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzJcxoyokyW/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

Children are the most vulnarble population for such Islamic, anti Israel, radical ideas.