Davino

@Water by the River Thanks for taking the time to answer. I'll contemplate what you've said on my own. You've raised good points. In general, if I don't answer to a well-thought post that you send to me, it's probably because I'm thinking about it before answering.

@Leo Gura I've really contemplated it through and it feels intuitively wrong. That's not how reality works in my experience, every cut into infinity must present its lights and shadows. I'm sure there are Infinite states of consciousness that are totally innaccessible through Psychedelics, maybe entheogens can't trigger some receptors, or another unknown methodology is necessary like DNA modification or who knows what, hope you get the metapoint beyond the examples. What I'm trying to say is that Psychedelics surely present access to many infinite and Godly states but not to All infinite and Godly states, making that assumptions is what feels intuitively wrong. If someone wants to become as conscious, as infinite and as Godly as existentially possible I cannot assume that Psychedelics will grant me access to all such states and that most certainly other methodologies can present new infinite and unique states, totally orthogonal and alien to those generated by Psychedelics. In my opinion, this is a more epistemically secure position to work from a priori. So when exploring consciousness I should be open-minded regarding all facets that are presented to me and make sure to get the fundamentals of each one. Instead of using psychedelics as a depth-first search for those facets that I'm biased towards, they should be used to look even with greater emphasis to those places where I don't wanna look. Yes, I think I've fallen into that trap myself. I sometimes feel consciousness is like a cheese, and then we make little holes while exploring it, psychedelics being this digging machine I now can see how they might be used to explore those channels that I'm biased towards and get a skewed perspective of the whole cheese. How important do you think trying a wide variety of psychedelics is? I get it's important but I would like to get a bit more on this. Because honestly I loved to try and explore different substances but since I've discovered the 5meos I've been quite disillusioned with other psychedelics all together. Maybe I should get back with exploring, do you think you could share with us a more in depth list of research chemicals that you have found useful? I know you have done a lot of experimentation on your side and you could save me years of trial and error. I'll reinvent the wheel anyway but hey I wanted to give it a shoot in case it never crossed your mind. I'm sure you could add a lot of value to the Psychonaut endeavour with such list. So is an excessive desire to make sense of psychedelic experiences a trap? Maybe it's better to consciously feel and be with the experience, before rushing into cartographic activity. Mmm, it's true that the passion psychedelics experiences and insights have, can actually bypass some epistemic filters, the beauty and profundity can be mesmerizing and that can fool me. This is advanced, never thought about it. Usually I'm just delighted, but now I'll take this into consideration without losing my ability to lose myself in that passion. I'll work on striking that balance. I'm a neophyte in God-Realization.

Yeah, that is a legit criticism. I'm not for the one or the other debate, I'm here for both. According to Ken Wilber individuals who do both end up being more advanced than those who do just psychedelics or just meditation, which makes total sense to me. But there's the same problem with meditation see? even more as most of the practice one is totally lost in many lens and doesn't even know what is searching for, only heresay without any direct experience. I like more this conversation because I'm now seeing more clearly the limitations of both tools. I'm not here to grapple about metaphysics with you but about investigating the actual limits of psychedelics and meditation/yoga. What is in your opinion the limitations of meditation practices? In what way they present traps for Ultimate Truth? How can psychedelics become a helpful in that sense? In the same way, how can meditation be used to compensate the psychedelic downsides?

Don't think so, he still wrote books recommending facilitators after he stopped offering such services. My thoughts are that he discovered a very niche niche form of energetic therapy that comes from non-egoic consciousness. I've experimented a bit with it and there's a lot of potential for healing no doubt, but as I said it's very niche. 5meo can open a million other doors for exploration.

Turkmenistan How is it possible that I knew nothing about this? It becomes painfully clear that my knowledge of North Korea is primarily because it is considered an enemy. The documentary made me reflect on the dangers of lacking nationalism. I’ve often thought about how national identity creates many problems, but I had never considered how the absence of nationalism can generate just as many issues. Due to its nomadic history, Turkmenistan never developed a strong national collective identity, which the USSR exploited to well-known extents that we acknowledge but rarely contemplate. The USSR literally sucked the blood out of the country and its resources, providing only the bare minimum for survival to prevent revolt. Ironically, they made the whole population literate. After the USSR's fall, this lack of nationalism was further exploited by the dictator, who created a national identity centered around himself and his agenda. Through propaganda and free resources, he fostered learned helplessness, ensuring the people survived just enough to avoid rebellion while he acted as selfishly as he possibily could. So the lesson here is too much nationalism definetely not good, but no nationalism will be exploited by other nations so it's also a bad strategy.

Breathe, everything is okay. Don't just read, do with me. Take a deep breathe; everything is fine. Focus on becoming more present and aware. From the meditation POV thoughts are just phenomena as there are sights, sounds, feelings... when meditating focus on the phenomena that is present and not on thoughts, when you catch yourself lost on the thought phenomena return to your anchor, breathing; once grounded, then let go of the focus on the breath and abide in the present moment, in simple open awareness, like a cat sunbathing. Here is a nice meditation for you. Pranayama is also good. From the self-development POV we'll need to understand how your mind works with introspection and emotional maturity. Also realize that most of the time worries are an intelligent mechanism designed for you to look in parts of your life that you are denying, although obviously it can enter into cyclic patterns of self-torture. In addition, your ego will develop with you, so it's better to become friends with it and understand models like Spiral Dynamics that explain its evolution with useful conceptual frameworks and maps. The following video presents the ground for understanding mind and its mechanisms. And a more practical lens to navigate the issues you are facing is Self-Love From the Psychedelic POV, these tools can offer a tangible way to purge yourself and accelerate the above mentioned processes.

Yeah man, I get you It's very important because it can cause psychic imbalances when you really need to let go all that energy but you are pushing the breaks. I'm not judging I'm warning you because I've also had to do push the breaks for the same reasons and it's not sustainable longterm and can even cause imbalances. Rent an airbnb in the woods for your own retreats, there are very affordable options if you book them +6months in advance for a night or a weekend.

You are a kundalini yoga practicioner, why are you doubting yourself like that? Of course you'll be able to manage the energy. Just start with a low dose and work your way up, maybe for newbies with a smoked breakthrough dose a facilitator is necessary but you should be fine. Do your spiritual practice before the trip and if kundalini gets triggered during the experience, just flow with it; that's what I do. I would be more concerned about mind, psyche and consciousness rather than energy in your case, also integration is crucial.

What a mind bend! It makes sense, it's true that thinking like a human presupposes many things. There can be minds that find healthy what we find despicable. For example, the other day I stepped on a pieace of shit. Naturally, I said: Oh shit!!! Passing by there was a fly, seeing that enormous, warm, fresh, and stinking piece of shit said: oh man today is my lucky day! and had a whole feast of opulent food.

Thank you everyone, you all gave me a lot of insights and inner clarity. I know it's part of my maturation, I'm confident that with time I'll develop a strong sense of grounding and inner stability. A virtual hug to each and everyone of you🫂❤️

Yes, once. I'm not naturally prone to the Love facet of God, is something I'm working on. What I can call infinite Love I felt once, in the peak of Mushrooms+MDMAtrip. It shooked me to the core, it was so much love it even hurted, my vessel couldn't take such insane levels of Love. I remember exactly the feeling, it surprised me how if someone came to me in that exact moment and viciously stabbed me to death, I would be able only to say one thing, I love you, with tears in my eyes, I love you from the bottom of my heart, I love you... You love death to its death, you conquer death by love, infinite love makes you immortal, it's perfection, more than what you could have ever dreamt. It satisfies you to the soul, all your life searching like a beggar for love, now you are not satisfied, you are infinitely satisfied in an ever abundant fountain of infinite love, that its already as much love as it's existentially possible only to overflow with even more love, again and again and again... So yeah, I got you bro and who wouldn't want that 24/7 lol. I'm on your side for Infinite Love, for real, Believe me ! I really want, so do you but it's still a trap. The point is that in a way you are searching for the lost paradise from childhood, this is not gonna happen, you need to mature and be satisfied with mundane zen like existence.

You can be very loving in 95% of your life but still have some blind spots and be unloving in some facets of your life. For example, you don't love your present experience that's why you are chasing infinite love. If you were to love the present moment then you would be at peace. It's by the hating of the now in the contrast with the peak love you are attached to, what constitues a blind spot and an opportunity to love more. In short, to Love the now and to Love yourself. It's ironic to see that the way you are pursuing infinite love is in fact unloving and unhealthy; deep down you know this and that's the reason you started this thread.

You don't even have basic self-love while sober; otherwise you wouldn't be intoxicating yourself everyday

@Water by the River I expected a more insightful answer, I really took the time to consider what you said and I raised some good points you preferred to overlook.

@Leo Gura I feel more like an eagle Haven't gone into the mud of life to become a crocodile yet

False, the ego is fully seen through in psychedelic breakthroughs, in contrast with meditation that stays solid in most of the practice for decades, dissolving slowly. What is a fair point in psychedelics is that as quickly as it explodes it forms again and THEN it hijacks and all what you say applies. In meditation when ego finally dissolves and reconstructs again, it can be seen through more clearly, as it has been a gradual process over decades. That's just enlightenment, maybe for enlightenment, meditation and other techniques are more suited, I agree. But there is no ultimate state of consciousness, it just depends on your bias of what is the state you want to abide in, even the state that is beyond all states as enlightenment assumes is but another state of consciousness. I'm biased towards the Infinite states of consciousness, you may be biased towards the everpresent states of consciousness, that's fine we can coexist and explore both and different tools work better to access different states of consciousness. But my initial question was how are psychedelics a trap to access the infinite and Godly states of consciousness and not how psychedelics are trap for accessing the enlightened states of consciousness.

Mmm interesting. I've been vegeterian for two years. Why? My body asked me so and I followed it. This changed a lot my psyche and some parts of my worldview regarding animals and my connection with nature and inner peace. About a month ago, my body started asking me meat again. I was hesitant but tried a a bit there and a little bit here again; despite mind resistance. One sunday I had the most epic 5meo breakthrough infinity of my life, in the come down I saw how all limitations of conduct are but self limitations imposed moment to moment by me. So I ate a delicious meat lasagna for lunch that day and I've been eating meat for a month now and I'm feeling absolutely fantastic. My body is intelligent and this type of diet now aligns with my inner calling. Funny enough, I never thought about morality when going vegetarian but a sense of deep animal compassion came with it after the 1 year mark. Now that my food involves animal slaughtering it caused a bit of inner disonance. But idk in the end it's more important to feel healthy in my body and following this inner calling than it is to care for others and this is an uncomfortable truth. Because I don't know about others but I am myself all day long therefore my priorities are straight. The same way in the future my body may tell me to go vegan, go cannibal , or whatever crazy diet; I'll probably align my life towards this inner life impulse that guides me everymoment.

Sometimes, I sense that solipsism is misunderstood as navel-gazing and a denial of others. To clear up these misunderstandings, I would like to describe how solipsistic consciousness feels during experiences like having sex, playing football, or enjoying a party. I decide to go out and have fun with some friends. We are in a plaza, all talking, in a crowded space, drinking, smoking; everyone is having fun. I start breathing and breathing, and with each breath, I enter more deeply into the flow of the moment. Letting myself go; there's no more resistance, and what comes, I let come, and what goes, I let go. I feel in tune with the ground; breathing through it, ever more alive I feel it. Becoming spatially aware, all the people surrounding my center are felt. All the talking and noise, previously uncomfortable, now feels like a perfect clock, ticking at a universal rhythm. I feel each one's presence; talking with my friends is ever more intense. The same life wave travels in me as it travels in her. A joke is cracked, and I lose it, laughing wholeheartedly the plaza becomes a soup of consciousness; I'm talking through each person's mouth, drinking, smoking, fighting, flirting, vomiting—through each and everyone, my life is universal, consciousness is the life-infusing spirit. My body becomes entangled with everyone and everything else; their present thoughts and feelings become my own bodily sensations. What you are in that moment, I am also. Looking at someone, I feel in my own body their sorrows, their pain, the same way I feel their joy and ecstasy— the plaza becomes one symphony, a melody of infinite instruments in perfect interpenetration. My own psyche is even further bent; body becomes an instrument for the divine balancing act of existence. Each word and movement is faultless, beyond comprehension and agency. Everything is intuitively happening, unbroken and perfectly so. My tentacles are existential and stretch out in all directions closing in a Strange Loop. My body is universal, simultaneously my avataric body has become interwoven with everyone's avataric body. Their karmas are my karmas, their virtues are my virtues. Deeper than having raw sex with each one, more profound than a broken heart revealing all its secrets, more vulnerable than surrending my life as your slave—what is inner and outer have dissolved. No center can be found. Breathing, I feel infinite love for all beings... for my own Self. My life is your life, your eyes are my eyes. Oh my Lord, I am; Infinite and Absolute. All corners of my Infinite Mind are Awake and Enlightened in the brilliance of Divine Consciousness. In all beings, I can only find myself. How beautiful. I've always been home. What a blessing Let's celebrate and dance; the equilibrium is sublime, tear-provoking, what a perfect vibe! Solipsism as it is oneness so it is division, the party starts wearing off, and consciousness changes nicely, like a feather floating in the breeze, to a bodily perception. My psyche feels stretched like a muscle after deep yoga. My energy body feels like it fucked with everyone tonight. Feeling Radiant and Self-Accepted; I love myself as I am. Returning home on bicycle; birds are chirpings while the sun awakens the whole city. Letting myself free, the fresh wind plays with my hair: I am what I've always been—All-Encompassing.

@Leo Gura I see, so it's friction and suffering what will toughen me. I shake because I subconsciously resist the pain instead of going heads on, if done enough, the initial shaking reflex will disappear and I'll be able to hold my ground in challenging situations. I feel self-doubt may also play some part here, tough life experiences will force me to develop an inner sense of trust. I'll be extra mindful on this and take action from now on. I'm seeing it clearer everyday, I don't like being an employee. That means I won't be happy unless I am in leadership positions or I have my own business and become financially independent. You could connect your avoidance of hard work episode with your conscious leadership episode, I'm sure interesting insights and correlations will come up.

Yeah, it's great. I'm also very into kundalini yoga, could you offer me any sources or advice? I don't practice much self-inquiry, what am I missing? How has self inquiry changed you? Mmm contemplate God, I like that phrasing. I also say God rememberance. I read Martin Ball before trying 5meos but I didn't find him useful in actual tripping except maybe his symmetry advice, if you do kundalini yoga you'll know how to navigate the energetic terrains. Regarding breakthroughs, Leo's work is the foundation you need to avoid most of the traps. Otherwise, your own consciousness is all you need and there is to hold to in ultimate instance. It's not one or the other, it's both the answer. But just don't lose motivation because 5meo will show you many things that no other tool can access so directly and easily. Because 5meo will give you the state and breakthrough but your every day practice will give you the stage of Awakening or the settling into those kinds of states. Exactly! You seem someone who would use psychedelics properly. 5-MeO-DMT is great for meditation, Consciousness and breakingthrough. 5-MeO-Malt is great for energy work, holism and Love.

@Buck Edwards mmm true, I never thought of that connection.

@Leo Gura Mmm, thanks this has been very helpful. I've been inquiring very deeply about the traps of psychedelics lately. Could you help me contemplate this question: Can psychedelics obscure some facets of God or Ultimate Truth? If so, which ones? Just as yoga and meditation have their limitations and can conceal aspects of infinity, what are the most advanced pitfalls associated with using psychedelics for God-Realization? What are the limitations of Psychedelics from above, Leo?

@LSD-Rumi ahahhahahahha

It's a bit tricky to answer this question. But in short and to be honest it would have been impossible to tap into this states at this point in my life without all the tripping I've done. As you have seen in my signature I'm also for proper living and the building up of consciousness and maturity. Psychedelics are a great tool for the peaks and to break the ceiling of whatever paradigm you might be locked in, from this new expanded ocean of consciousness you naturally occupy it and when you realize the ocean is just again another tank of water, you'll have to breakthrough again. For this breaking through, 5-MeO-DMT is hands down your best tool. Did you find anything better? I used to have and still do have many natural spontaneous awakenings.

@Nemra It's the contrast what shocks me the most honestly. After so much tripping, I'm getting a taste of intoxicant with all substances and even with just getting horny or hungry, I feel the chemicals in my body.