mr_engineer

I really recommend this channel for guys who rely more on 'social circle' to get laid than 'pick-up'. Leo is more of a pick-up guy, this Hamza guy is more of a social-circle guy. (That's 5 times I used the word 'guy' lol. That makes it 6). https://www.youtube.com/c/Hamza97

Okay. So, after some thought, here's my steelman version of feminism. Here's what it boils down to - women should not have to blindly take on a male morality and follow it. This male morality is naturally male-biased and women perceive it to be 'the patriarchy'. Now, where they go wrong, is that they assume that 'equality' is the solution to this problem. I disagree with the actions being taken in the name of 'equality' and I think they are highly destructive to society. Especially the family-unit. The actual solution is for women to have their own feminine epistemology, which is feelings-first (the masculine epistemology is facts-first because it's action-oriented) and have feminine versions of 'God' to worship, like the New-Age women do. This will undo a lot of damage that male-dominated religion has done to women. And because women will have their own feminine power, they can end this power-struggle against men. Someone here asked me 'what role should women play in your ideal world?' That is how you repeat the exact mistake that led to feminism to begin with! To construct a morality for women. This attitude is the root-cause of sexism. And feminism as it is in the world today is not immune to this. The governments are still male-dominated, the 1% are still male-dominated and the laws they're going to pass 'for equal rights' will still be benevolently sexist. Fine, there are some surface-level solutions needed, but it's not going to make feminists happy until they really resolve the root-issue, which is an unconsciousness relative to femininity as a whole. And one final point - a lot of 'male feminists' think that if women get to 'enjoy' the kind of life that men have and aspire to, which is one in which they're financially independent, they get to roam at night and fuck around, this is their idea of 'being compassionate towards women'. And that's the form their 'advocacy for women' or 'male feminism' takes. While well-intentioned and upholding the value of 'equality', the fundamental mistake here is the overlooking of the differences between us. Biological differences. Including the fact that women bear children, men don't. And that men have more physical strength than women. So, if we are to decide to be fairer to women, the system will look very different from what you guys are trying to do. Now, how will it look, is a choice that's yours. And believe me, the changes that'll come will be very different from what we're trying to do. For example, some New-Agers are saying that we should have 13 months in a year instead of 12, because women have 13 menstrual cycles in a year. That's how fundamental and radical our changes are going to have to be, if we really want to do this!

The touch-dynamics in a Stage Blue culture are going to be shit in general, because there is no sense of personal boundaries, personal identities or personal individualism. Maybe you can 'score', so to speak, but compatibility is going to be very hard. Compromise is the Stage Blue mantra.

I care about some facts, not others. And I definitely don't care about agreeing with the consensus, cuz it's inconvenient to my agenda. That's true. I don't have a steelman version of feminism. I don't even believe in 'equality'. I believe in fairness. Which is different from 'equality', cuz men and women are fundamentally different.

Why should I care about man-hate?! They're 'strong and independent' anyways, so I doubt they give a damn about my opinion anyways. I don't really care about being an SJW. I care about the lived experiences of the people I care about. And, they sure as hell aren't feminists, cuz they don't need it!!

This prescription is not mine to make. My opinions come based on a lot of extensive discussions with non-feminist women. I can't have it with feminist women cuz of the echo-chamber like paradigm-lock.

False accusations, promotion of a 'work hard, party hard' life for women, which is inherently masculine. Also, unsafe for women. Bad HR-departments who are on a witch-hunt for men, whose job is to incriminate men. Cancel-culture, censorship, abuse of the metoo movement. It's an inherently sexist question. I'm not dodging it, it just is assuming that I'm being sexist.

I'm not telling anyone what they should or shouldn't do. It's just facts and consequences. If you want them, your call!

From women. Women lionize the 'strong, independent women' and see traditional women as 'weak'. Oh boy. If we're comparing this to the abuse that feminists do to men, it pales in comparison. That is institutional. Don't make assumptions. This is a loaded question. When I answer this, you will say 'you're being self-biased', when you're asking me to tell you my biases!! Which is irrelevant to a discussion about the facts. I'd suggest we stick to facts.

No, they're not a way you act in the world. They are energies. That you feel. And that show you the way to authentic expression. No, it is 'men' and 'women'. Biological men and women. Feminism is the conditioning here. I'm talking about the actual facts about biological men and women. For the sake of argument, let's assume 2 genders that are biologically defined.

They'll be fine with a feminine man if their 'masculinity' is natural. That's not the reality with a lot of them. A lot of them are naturally feminine. But, because they have daddy-issues, they become feminists. And then, they learn the feminist 'masculinity' that only applies to women, by the way. When men do that, they're seen as 'little bitches'. And don't ignore the fact that most women have a physical disadvantage to most men. And most women have a very different emotional-response to most men. Men's way of creating safety is by being logical, factually oriented and battling it. Whereas, women rely on people to keep them safe and protect them. That's how our biological response to threat/danger has evolved. Feminism does hold the idea, though, that masculinity and femininity are socialized into you. That's not true. And, they then demonize the masculine and lionize the feminine. Without realizing that they're being the definition of masculine! And this repels men. It's all good and fine when you're a child or a young adult. But, as you grow up, you start caring about the long-term and the kind of life you want to live. And then, if you make choices based on feminist conditioning, your life typically goes to shit. Man or woman.

All of you who are players, you will love feminism. Cuz feminist women will be more likely to be up for casual sex. Cuz they want to be 'independent'. Which is understandable. You'll really see the problems with it when you try to make a relationship work. There, her 'independence' will really get in your way. And you will struggle to take charge of the relationship long-term as a result of it. Not because it's your fault, because 'taking the lead in the relationship is sexist'. Have fun trying to make that work!!

The two don't go together. A loving woman will know her value, she will not go for a dysfunctional man. She will choose a good man. If she's calling herself a 'loving mother' in this situation, she's calling codependency 'love'. And, she will have another part of her that'll hate men for being 'bad'. But, because that's her idea of men, that's what she'll be willing to put up with. Then, when the divorce happens, feminism will give her an amazing way of rationalizing how all men are evil. Feminism is responsible for this cycle continuing. And this has to stop. Go to jezebel.com. You'll see. You said 'happily married'. They can be married, sure, but because they're so 'independent', they have no role for the man in their life. That cannot go well for them. Why is this being idealized, though?! Feminism idealizes single-motherhood because 'all men are evil'. You are challenging the OP right now. Read the OP. Look at the struggles of 'independent women'. And look at how, instead of taking responsibility for it and seeing that 'independence' is the problem, how they blame it all on men and 'the patriarchy'. It's sad, honestly. And, nobody is built for independence. Interdependence is the human reality, no matter who you are. Especially women and children. That's due to feminist conditioning. It's not actually natural.

I've been the victim of a divorce as a child. Don't tell me it's not bad. It does align with feminist values of 'independence' and hating men. It's very easy to lie. They may not be. But, this is the point of feminism. To break up homes. It is man-hating at its core. It's not healthy. There is such a thing as conflict-resolution. That could be tried instead of feminism. I'm telling you what it is. Not what it 'could be'. Women are not built to be 'independent'. They need male protection to be in their feminine. That's their natural state. When that's your reality and you choose to hate on men, that's dysfunctional. And unsustainable.

Feminism is deeply, deeply tyrannical. Let's not forget the cancel-culture and censorship. The fundamental man-hate they hold is toxic and should not be taken lightly. Corporations are lionizing it right now cuz it benefits corporations to have women work, to lower labor-costs. And to have women compete against men. They're the only ones who benefit from it. And, as far as women's 'independence' goes, it can be beneficial to have a phase of your life where you're being independent. Simply because it's better than being codependent. But, an entire life of 'independence' is dysfunctional. And unsustainable. (Not very different from men's lives, though, where it can be beneficial to just not think about women for a period of time, but fully going MGTOW is dysfunctional.)

So, you say that rising divorce-rates and children growing up without both parents is a good thing?! Do you know what happens when a 5-year-old loses a parent?! Say, their father?! In the past 10 years, I've seen the opposite. I've never really seen this happen. From what I've seen, traditional gender-roles are strongly discouraged nowadays. And the thread talks about the toxicity of that. Just to be clear, we're not talking about what happened 50 years ago. We're talking about today's world.

@something_else It's going to become more and more apparent with the rise of divorce-rates and broken homes. The whole idea of 'independence' is fundamentally flawed, as said in the OP. No, it's not about being more loving towards women. It's about women being more 'independent'. They believe in the idea of 'independence' so strongly that if a woman decides to not be 'independent', she'll be seen as 'regressive'. Then, all of your 'expansion of consciousness and love' will get thrown out of the window, as a feminist! And you'll become even more fascist than the patriarchs themselves, with your cancel-culture.

I got falsely accused by a girl in high-school and the female teachers abused their power over me in that situation. This caused me to lose confidence with women forever and hate women for a long period of time. All thanks to feminism. I was raised by a single mother, I didn't have a father. She decided to be a 'strong, independent woman' instead of remarrying. Thanks feminism. I only had one parent. Now I see why some of you 'male feminists' appear so ignorant about the practical realities of feminism. And how it affects us.

Update - Here's what happened on the 26th. Somebody sabotaged the Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 pipelines, supplying gas from Russia to Germany, within a span of 24 hours. There were holes in those pipelines, seawater got in and it was a whole mess. This means that Europe cannot get gas in the foreseeable future. Which means no fertilizer, no food, no power and no heating. For the foreseeable future. My heart goes out to all of you Europeans here. I sincerely wish you the best in battling this.

Hey everyone, I found something interesting/terrifying. On September 24/September 26 right now, something really bad is going to happen. In the economy. It will be historically bad. September 26 is the end of the Shemitah year, the end-day of the Jewish calendar. It comes every 7 years. September 17 2001 was the first day the stock-markets opened after 9/11. There was a major crash on that day. That was the end-day of the Shemitah year in 2001. On September 29 2008, which was the end-day of the Shemitah in 2008, Bear Stearns and Lehman brothers collapsed because of the housing bubble. Dow Jones dropped 777 points. (7 is a big code-number for the Shemitah year, by the way.) September 13 2015, which was the end-day of the Shemitah in 2015, was a Sunday. So, nothing happened on that day in the US. But, there was a major crash in China. Now, something is staged to happen on September 26 2022, starting on 24th. September 26, which is a Monday, is the end of the Shemitah in 2022 Let's see what happens!

In high-school, I got rejected by a girl. Her advice to me was to just not date until you're done with high-school and college. And, I agreed. And, I still think that. As a guy, dating costs money. So, I'd suggest that you fully be on your own first. Especially if you struggle with oneitis, what this means is that you want something serious. And building the foundation for that takes a lot of time and effort. So, as hard as it is, I'd suggest that you fully focus on doing that. If you want social-interaction, work on team-projects. I did this and I do not regret this one bit. It'll also help you with women and making your relationships work. Cuz it is a team-effort. You will have to 'work together', so to speak. The reason computer-nerds struggle with women is that their projects can be individualistic where it's just them and the computer. You work on team-projects and you should be fine, socially. 'Dating' in high-school and college is a lot of immature stupidity on the whole. Those kids are wasting their time fucking around, basically, not knowing what they're doing. Going to parties, getting wasted (ironically), is a waste of time. If you see a young couple and you think they're 'in love' or something, I can assure you, they're not. They don't have the slightest idea what 'love' even means or what it takes. Now that I have some understanding of the correct way to do this, when I see them, I cringe hard. (That was my boomer 'kids these days' moment lol)

What is their rationalization/excuse for how things will get better? What have they been told by the authorities of their time?

@integral These kind of conversations are the best to have in an after-party, when everyone's tired of partying, drinking and dancing on the dance-floor or something. Tired of the small-talk. If you're the sober one in that situation, you'll still have energy and that's when people want to actually hang out. Especially if they're also sober! And they don't want to deal with the drunk and the stoned. I did this once, where when everyone else was high and either staring at lights or mumbling inexplicably after passing out, I was sitting on a table with other sober introverts and having a deep conversation about politics. It's pretty deep, given the environment!!

In theory, you can. And, on an individual level. It's like saying 'You can escape wage-slavery' or 'You can become a model' or 'You can win an Olympic gold-medal' or 'You can become a billionaire'. You can, on an individual level. But, everyone can't. On a practical level, the reality of feminism as a movement is that it suppresses masculine and feminine nature. I know, you're going to quote ten books of theory as to how that's not what it's about. But, this is what it's practically doing.

If the police are killing you for protesting, and they're setting a precedent by killing a 22-year-old girl, and then if you protest, I'm sorry but you are playing right into their hands. You'll simply be next in line. To directly retaliate would be strategically suboptimal. If your parents are telling you to not join the protest, and you still feel the urge to go out and protest, I think you should bring this up with your parents and ask them why they're telling you to not join. And what they think will be the way out of this. I'm not saying they will have the answer. But, when they tell you how the system works and what the light at the end of the tunnel is supposed to be, you will get a clearer idea of how the system works. And what the loopholes are. Then, you can hopefully devise a better strategy to deal with this situation! HTH!! Edit - This point about talking to your parents is actually very important. Because, if your parents saw no other way out of this situation, they would be on the streets with you. The fact that they're stopping you, means that their experienced judgement is making them hope for something better down the line. Now, whether that hope is true or false, that's your call, when you put on their lens to make sense of the situation.