mr_engineer

When you talked about 'turning their game on their head and fucking them over', that's how it came across. If I misunderstood what you're saying, my apologies. The way to defend yourself, to my eyes, would be to directly reject them and to look for women who are truly feminine and loving. The hypergamous women are running in a rat-race. Which is masculine. You want a woman who is genuinely receptive to your love. Who is feminine. Who will accept the good, bad and ugly aspects of you. Stop wasting your time with transactional women. Look to accept their good, bad and ugly aspects yourself too. And, don't listen to redpillers telling you that 'hypergamy is fundamental to femininity/what it means to be a woman'. It's not. This capitalistic reality has conditioned them to be like this. I repeat, it's not their fault that they are like this, this is not who they fundamentally are.

No sir, we're not here to take revenge. We're here to protect ourselves, and preferably others. The world is crappy enough as it is. My request to you is to make it better, not worse. Be in reality but don't let it change you.

The point is to see women for who they really are. This is where the real vetting happens for men, I'd say. This is where you learn to filter out the women who only want you for your money. The point of doing this is to 'manage our expectations' once we are successful! It is very important to figure out the type of woman who will love you for who you are. And, you do that when you're broke! Not when you're successful. You look at their filters, you see how patriarchal vs how feminist they are and you figure out the right system for yourself in the relationship. The thing with a lot of feminist women is that they don't want to fit in the gender-box that the patriarchy sets for them but they want to put men in their gender-box. You see the ugly parts about dealing with women and this puts a lot of things into perspective. The reality is that this relationship will set the foundation for your future. In the future, if something happens to your success, this relationship will make or break your life. If you're with a 'hypergamous' woman, she will divorce you, fuck you over even more and then go find someone else. But, if you're with someone who has the right values and who you're genuinely compatible with, she will stick with you and the two of you will survive it. The point being, you figure this out before even running in the rat-race and building your SMV. So that you know why you're doing it at all!

This is why, as much as it sucks, you date women even when you're not successful. Because when things aren't going well for you, people show you who they really are. And this shows you what red-flags you should have and what you should vet for once you are successful.

@ValiantSalvatore I relate to where you've been. I've been in that exact position when I was a student. I went on the full 'sigma male grindset' for a solid 3 years, after evaluating my options and making up my mind. Girls were a distraction, I fully focused on setting myself up for a good future. Then, my options with girls increased. The reality is that when you're that young, everything else is theory for you. It's all BS, it's all a distraction if you haven't achieved anything significant. And, until you get to that point, this will continue to haunt you. Don't even think about the 'high value' crap before you get this much done. All of this theory is a waste of your time.

Can you elaborate?

There is no difference between loving yourself and loving others, fundamentally. They're the same.

Leo has said in the past that 'don't use the boyfriend frame, use the player-frame, cuz the boyfriend-frame will get you friendzoned'. Here's what I've observed - the boyfriend-frame gets you friendzoned with women who are very transactional in the way they deal with men. These women have a bright red line between 'men who are friends' and 'men who they sleep with' with no overlap between the two. If you adopt the player-frame with them, yes, they will see you as attractive and probably sleep with you. But, in the future, they will use sex as a manipulation to get you to commit to them. Whereas, the guys who are willing to commit are going to use the boyfriend-frame, because that's what commitment looks like! But, because they don't know what commitment looks like, the one with the boyfriend-frame goes into the friendzone. So, how do you vet them? Go with the boyfriend-frame. If she friendzones you, she's not worth your time. And, one final point about this - it does work with women who know what 'love' is and who know what they're looking for in a man. If you get close enough with such a person, things must go in a sexual direction. But, this time, in the context of relationship, not in the context of a one-off transaction.

And I'm not talking about getting laid here. Or getting into a relationship. I'm talking about finding a compatible person to begin with. Then we talk about this other stuff. In case there is a lack of clarity relative to the problem-statement of this thread, I want to clear that up. And, there is also a big difference between intimacy and having a relationship. Arranged-marriages are not intimate, for example. There can be a big discrepancy between their personalities. The point of dating is to find love. Otherwise, there are plenty of relationships where the transactions could work, but the people can't stand each other for a second.

In that case, he misinterpreted what I was saying. Which is that from an intimacy-standpoint, if you're friendzoned, with transactional women, you're on the good side of the red line. But, from a sex-standpoint, you're on the bad side. Because the red line separates those she has intimacy with from those she has sex with. The point of doing it like this, is to be transactional with those who she has sex with. This thread is about a red-flag that incompatible women, women who don't know what love and intimacy are, women who are purely transactional, will exhibit. And how to vet them out. Everyone is not in the rat-race to get laid. I would much rather evaluate compatibility before running in this race. This is simply not the case. There can, in fact, be intimacy with female friends. Because intimacy is not sex. The reality is that intimacy is not the same as sex. It is a bias of the male ego to assume that they are the same. They're not. Ask any woman.

@Leo Gura Then how do you explain the phenomenon in which she has a toxic relationship and she opens up to her guy-friends about it? Guys who she has friendzoned?

@Leo Gura On the one hand, you say that 'most women have a bright red line between guys they're friends with and guys they're sleeping with', in response to me saying that 'the women who have this line are transactional'. On the other hand, you're saying that 'they will naturally open up more to guys they're sleeping with'. This negates the first statement that you made, right?! Where did the bright red line go, if she opens up to guys who she's sleeping with?! And, why would she need other guys who she friendzones and complains to about her toxic relationship if she didn't have this bright red line, if she could open up to her boyfriend?!

@Leo Gura How can there be love in a relationship, if your girlfriend has other guy-friends she's talking to about stuff she can't talk to you about, just because she's fucking you and she wants to keep the transaction alive? The issue isn't about attracting them. You are right about that. The issue is having a high-quality relationship. There, these player-patterns can fuck up the relationship completely. Is my point.

The most important principle is - Frame is everything. When women talk about you as a man, they're talking about your frame. The reason assholes do well with women, even though they're morons who are irresponsible and reckless, objectively, is that they're more willing to fight. And, this gives them a 'strong frame' with women. Whereas, being a nice guy gives you a 'weak frame', even if you're objectively a stronger, more responsible person. Most women's conception of 'strength' is shallow. Because their agenda is to compare their options and to choose the best one. So, in their minds, they're comparing your frames. This is why being aggressive works with women. This is also why most relationships are not loving. Because both sides aren't seeing each other for who they are. So, if you want a loving relationship, here's what you do in order : the first thing you do is you become more self-aware, self-loving and see yourself for who you are. The next step is that you learn about women, sober yourself relative to them and you see them for who they are. This will show you the different types of women out there and it'll give you a sample size to pick from. The next step is to figure out what compatibility looks like and to figure out how to vet these women for compatibility. This is your 'dating-strategy', so to speak. This will fully incorporate your truth of what you want. And this is where you construct your vision for the type of relationship you want, based on reality. Then, the next step is to figure out how to embody your authenticity/integrity so that you know how to put yourself out there and how to show up for women. Women have different roles for you and when you show up for the ones with the right roles for you, you can show yourself as 'compatible' to them. This is your opportunity to create win-wins with them. (Analogous to the 'product-market fit' concept in business) This will also give you an idea of what it means to 'get ready for long-term relationship' Then, you go on monk-mode and prepare yourself for long-term relationship. It will be very tempting to use your existing SMV to indulge in casual sex. But, this will be a distraction if what you want is a long-term relationship. So, no dating until you're ready. Then, finally, when you're ready, you hard-screen women for compatibility and you rationally evaluate your options before you decide whom to commit to. This is where it will be important to not settle and to pick the best option that's right for you.

It can be conscious if you're doing something about the corruptions of porn and if you genuinely are meeting a need for someone (the viewers, the actors, the make-up artists, someone) that nobody else is meeting.

Have hobbies that interest you, that you're passionate about. Then, you can consider going full-time in some of them later on. It is these things in your personal-life that will drive your decision-making process in your professional-life.

There is a Bruce Lee quote that's one of my favorites - 'I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times'. If I were in your position, I would spend my 50 grand exploring things that I'm interested in, figuring out what that 'one kick' is for me and then practicing it 10,000 times. Then, your future is set!

And you can't make LAND out of thin air. The amount of land itself is finite.

@The alchemist I'd suggest you help people one on one first. That'll pay decently. Then, as you keep growing and you find patterns emerging, where you're dealing with the same problems for 10-20 people a day, that's when you go on social-media. Cuz that's when you know what thousands and millions of people need to know, that's when you get the hits on social-media.

I have an idea that I don't have the time or patience to execute on, but it's a very good idea. It's for an attachment-relationship healing-center. You learn in depth about human psychology, emotional-needs and attachment-styles. And, you spend a couple years designing your own healing-modalities for it. Then, you systematize it and you start an attachment-relationship healing-center. It is the need of the hour. Countless people need it, you will have waiting-lines. And you will change the landscape of relationships forever, you will set the foundation for a world that's truly communal. You will find ways around the constraints of the single-family home and give children better upbringings. The reason I'm not doing it myself is that I don't have a product-market fit for this idea. I have better product-market fits for other ideas that I'm working on. If you've got it, please, go for it!! Consider what I'm saying as a green signal.

Ah, I see. Here, in India, from what I know, the legal process of giving a birth-certificate involves giving the government a marriage-certificate. Then, they certify you as the 'child' of these 'parents' who are legally proven to be 'married'. It's all a scam, honestly.

@something_else The logic behind marriage is to have the option to get the government's help in the event that you have a child and your partner becomes abusive or something. Then, the government can hold them accountable as the parent of your child.

@Kalki Avatar Raise your standards for women. Look at her character-flaws that made her act like that. She basically acted like a low-quality person. Figure out why she did that, then look into whether you missed red-flags before making the decision to emotionally open up to her. Maybe you didn't know that those are red-flags, but now you do. So, next time, when you're interested in someone who doesn't have those red-flags, the logically right thing to do will be to give her the benefit of the doubt, that she won't hurt you. This is how you solve the problem of you closing up. Now, if she wants to work on her reasons for being egotistical (cuz that's what we're really talking about here), give her a second chance. If she doesn't do that, let her go.

@Leo Gura What do you think of the debate of Austrian economics vs Keynesian economics? What's your take on that debate?

If I look at her as critically as I can, what comes to mind is that she's an ideologue. That's it. I don't see what's dangerous about that. You are free to follow her or not. And, about the fear of regressing to Stage Blue - keep in mind that Stage Blue is a foundation on which the other stages come. After religion loses its hold on society, there has to come a new ideology that tells parents how to be good parents, right?! And that basically teaches young people the best way to find their way to a secure relationship. You are free to debate the level of counter-productivity of the hook-up culture on this front.