mr_engineer

The criticisms of incel-ideology and redpill-ideology are that 'they make men's understanding of women narrow, biased and self-serving', right? That is a valid criticism. My question is - why doesn't the same criticism apply to feminist ideology? Here's what I've heard feminists say: Men are trash. Men are the reason that equality hasn't been achieved Men aren't loyal Men as a class are completely privileged Men fear strong women All men cheat (This one is my personal favorite) Men are emotionally underdeveloped Now, tell me - how does this not make women's understanding of men narrow, biased and self-serving?

@LordFall Buddy, you have a very positive mindset, good for you. But, you're still not answering the question. Do you agree with those points that they're making? The actual words that they're saying? Are those generalizations true, according to you. If they're true for all men, does that include you?

@LordFall No, about the bullshit they say about men. Do you agree with those points? About the cold-approach thing - I'll talk about it when I want to. Right now, its irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

@LordFall So, you agree with what they're saying? You're taking their side?

@LordFall Okay. Let's say someone is hitting you with a lead pipe. As you're in pain, you ask them 'why are you hitting me?' They will tell you why, their reasons may be legitimate or not. Even if you think their reasons are legitimate, does this solve the problem that they're hitting you with a lead pipe?

Now I think you're the one being the 'fruitcake'. I'm sure @Crazy_ball would agree.

@Crazy_ball I second this. Mods, we want warning-points for @something_else for personally attacking me.

Asking a man to read feminist literature is like asking a Jew to read Mein Kampf. I don't really care about 'above or below'. I care about the manifestation of feminism in present-day, and I'm really not liking what I see. The rhetoric is incredibly hateful and anti-male. There is a characterization of men as 'oppressors' only, there is zero appreciation of men in history or in present-day. If you're going to say anything positive about masculinity and 'what it is capable of', you're the exception as a feminist. Normal, present-day feminists see masculinity as fundamentally oppressive, and that's it. It is just gender-tribalism, like the incel and redpill-ideologies.

Of course, you have to say that, you have to define what 'truth' is to suit yourself. I'm not equating the ideologies, I'm asking you why the same criticisms don't apply. Yeah, yeah, only men are 'toxic and harmful'. That's the ideology, right? Feminism exists because academia and mainstream psychology has given it way too much credibility. I don't want to read a whole bunch of literature bashing on men and talking about how men get off on oppressing women, thanks.

@trenton No, they don't do mass-shootings. Instead, they use their soft-power to destroy the reputation of their enemies (aka, men) by making false-allegations. We can see this clearly in the reaction to the 'Not all men' hashtag, how badly they want to prove that it is, in fact, all men.

I think the same can be said about the manosphere ideologies.

@Lila9 'Our problems are real problems, your problems are not real problems'. Look, you don't need to go around invalidating other people's lived experiences. Just talk about your experiences, just talk about who hurt you.

@Natasha Tori Maru Next time, please make a couple of these instances public so that we know that we're safe here.

And what about the negativity against men? What's being done about that? Take yourselves, for example. I have never seen you mods police anyone for spreading negativity against men. When someone spreads negativity against men, I've never seen them being asked who hurt them, or what is it that they're generalizing to all men. (In fact, when I decided to take the initiative on this, I got warned for it lol) This means, that the general sentiment towards men is not positive, right? Whenever someone makes blanket negative statements about men, that's man-hate. Whether it's about 'toxic masculinity' or about how 'all men are complicit in the patriarchy' or anything else, it's very important that we ask them to not generalize. Otherwise, we're complicit in the spreading of man-hate. What's happening, though, is very different. When negativity against men gets spread in the MeToo movement and there's a counter-movement to that saying 'not all men', feminists hate it! They do not want to say that it's not all men.

Ah, the 'nothing is so simple' argument. Yes, individuals are complicated. But, it is not that hard to notice patterns in how collectives behave! The point of this argument is to create an image of 'complication', that 'we're all very complicated, don't try to make sense of what we're doing, don't scrutinize what we're doing'. I don't know if you think we're dumb enough to not see it, or whether you are. And, as far as the 'social media' argument goes, whatever happens on social media has real-life consequences. Real people get cancelled because of what happens on social media. I have never seen this lecture of 'get off social media, it could be biasing your thinking' be given to a feminist. Never. Interesting, isn't it?!

Here's another thing I've noticed about feminists - whenever something happens that helps their agenda, they will indirectly claim credit for 'believing the ideology that made this happen' but whenever something happens that doesn't help their agenda, now, they will ascribe that to the 'bad guys' 'not believing the right ideology'. When something good happens, no matter who does it, they're the 'hero', while when something bad happens, no matter who does it, they're the 'victim'. It truly is a performance. And, of course, the villains of their performance are men. They're the heroes and the victims. Have you ever seen a feminist give credit for anything positive done by a non-feminist? Something that a non-feminist does that indirectly helps their cause. Have you seen it? I haven't. The credit for that positive thing has to go to them!

@LordFallThanks for the assumptions about a random person on the internet. Anything else?

Here's the thing, though - feminism is not doing any favors to your 'high-value men' either. Whether you define 'high-value' in terms of looks, money or even performative morality. Justin Baldoni got accused of sexual-assault, even though he had a TED-talk on feminism.

It is outdated 'us vs them' nonsense, it's fundamentally unloving and it has no place in a world where men are valued and respected. It glorifies disrespectful behavior towards men. All men. So, when a woman says 'I'm a feminist', realize that she's had some trauma with men, which is making it so she's failing to be loving towards men. This is her failure to be loving towards men. And, treat it accordingly.

Then what? You still have to fix the situation, right? Where you're being disrespected for the crime of being a man?

They are one and the same. In their ideology and their actions. There is an anti-male fundamentalism brewing in feminist circles. The point of the MeToo movement is to deny due process to the accused, such that they become guilty until proven innocent. The 'feminization of law', as it's been put by Helen Andrews, makes it so the moment a woman accuses a man of anything, it is automatically the word of God. All thanks to feminism. Here, she mentions how feminism has demonized male sexuality to death, which is apparent from the MeToo movement.

This one explains false accusations. At 47:55.

We do need to question the 'oppression' narrative too, that 'men are the oppressors'. If you have the courage to deconstruct this, do so.

So, the toxicity of feminism is not that recent. It's always been this bad. It's just surfacing now.