Xonas Pitfall

Yes! I understand that in the total state, everything is just pure emptiness, the Absolute. When I said everything is perfect and whole, I meant that it's all just 'is', nothing, pure emptiness, pure isness, coherence emerges and stays, and things that unify exist, while those that don’t simply fall away. You can use whatever words resonate most with you to describe it! My question is: since we clearly have states of God-realization and enlightenment where people are still alive and survive, and we accept those as valid insights, even though they technically didn’t 'relinquish all desire,' even the desire to not exist, then it seems plausible to assume that you could attain states of infinity where you can at least perform some physical manipulation. Your will would still be intact, and even if it’s not the egoic type of will, it could be something more like a curiosity-driven will.

Possibly yes, thank you, I'll look into it! It’d be cool to have a forum thread where people can do scientific-like research/exploration and see if they can influence reality in some ways once in a heightened state of consciousness.

@Ishanga Yes, that was my point! If we only considered the ultimate enlightenment to be the one that happens at the moment of death, we wouldn't value anything that enlightened masters or Leo say. You could just argue, 'See! They’re still limited by their desires and will to live. There is still ego. Why didn't they die?' But yet, we do accept it to some extent because we realize there’s fruitful value in their realizations. You don’t have to actually die for your realizations to be considered valid. My point is similar when it comes to the ability to exert influence over reality in higher states of consciousness. It doesn’t mean you suddenly reach full enlightenment and have all your desires stripped away. You still clearly have the desire to live and maintain this human body to embody your realizations. So I’m curious, why don’t we see that ability to influence reality more often (even to some extent) in people who claim to be in the heightened states?

It would make sense that there’s a point between God-realization/higher consciousness and the human ego, where your ability to influence reality would be heightened. It’s kind of like saying, well, the moment you are God-realized, it means you're dead! You didn’t have complete God-realization since your heart didn’t stop beating and your lungs were still working. If your body didn’t collapse, that means you weren't fully God-realized. That’s truly how it goes. But we know from this forum that there are many gradients of realization, where you can still have your "ego-will" intact and experience higher states of consciousness. So my question is, why don’t we see people being able to make even small physical tweaks to the exterior or to themselves? I’d say it’d be foolish to think it immediately purges them of all desire to do anything in physical reality. Not sure. I understand that in a total state, you'd be ripped out of all desire because you'd see everything as it is, perfect, whole, God, itself/yourself. But this is a very black-and-white way of thinking, since when we have different states of consciousness, there are plenty of in-between states where my suggestion could happen. So I was curious if anyone has experienced it or if there’s a fundamental flaw in my thinking.

@Leo Gura Hmm... It's a tricky thread to walk. At least, I'd be concerned about it if I really wanted to be sure of the truth. You don’t want to get too attached to any singular worldview, unity, or experience, whether it’s about consciousness or something else, and then neglect arguments that might change your perspective, or deny them altogether. Something like "Hitler is never wrong" and only amplifies the ideas that fit their beliefs while dismissing everything else. In reality, for something to be true, all of its elements must align in a way that holds up across different arguments. And to clarify, this doesn’t mean 'Oh well, if you can't list every species in the world, that means biodiversity doesn't exist. Ha, gotcha!' It just means you don’t want contradictory statements in your system. You know this already, though, haha, but that statement of yours concerned me and reminded me of it. Also, apologies in advance if I'm saying something really stupidly naive or off-track; I'm just trying to contemplate it myself through debate. Thank you!

Hmm... but couldn’t you make the same argument that if God isn’t able to create from any point within its "center," then it would be limited? That He would be limited by His inability to create infinitely from finitude? It’s tricky when dealing with infinity. That’s why, in my question above, I asked about making small changes in the human body after becoming God-realized, being aware of the chain of change needed to cause even a small adjustment to ourselves. This would prove that God-realization and consciousness can directly affect the body and reality, especially in a more scientific manner. By the way, to clarify, I'm not trying to argue with you. To be completely clear, I'm just trying to understand it myself since I seem to have some comprehension issues here.

@Leo Gura Hey, on a slightly similar topic, I’ve noticed that I get stuck in my contemplations sometimes, so I’m asking this to better understand how to deconstruct the "ego defense" I’m experiencing. What I’m struggling with is that even after intense mental skull-fucking work, I still can’t fully accept the idea that "I am God" or that the mind is limitless. For example, if I try to imagine subtle changes in my body, like my eyes becoming more brown, my nails growing a little longer, or healing pain or illness, it doesn't seem to work. I focus on these small things because I’ve noticed I get scared of changing, especially because I see how attached my ego is to my body and identity. But even when I try to make these minor changes that wouldn't pose a threat to the fixed idea of human identity, they still don’t manifest. It’s tricky to understand why, if someone can become fully awakened or omniscient, they still can’t intentionally influence reality or consciousness, even as an experiment. You mentioned something extreme in one of your episodes, like turning your hand into an eldritch Cthulu tentacle🐙, but that’s not even necessary. What about simply changing something small? I’d love to see a thread here, even where people share their experiences of going on trips, reaching God-realizations, and making small, scientifically verifiable changes that couldn't naturally occur. I realize that whenever I return from God-realizations (intense trips), my ego grabs onto these arguments as a defense mechanism, blocking me from fully integrating the experience. So, I’m wondering how you navigated this and got past it. Do you mostly think: "Oh, it's the case that even though I am God and that is the absolute truth, the reason I can’t do these things is because I’m still attached to a human mind that can't perform these actions? And in order to do so, I’d be risking death or detachment from my self, which is why it’s not so easy? I am God, so I choose not to do it. It's not that I cannot." But to that, I’d argue it still doesn’t make sense, because by definition, God is God. Once you realize that you are, you should be able to do it, purely for the fun and curiosity of it, especially if it isn't human-identity threatening... It’s confusing. Thank you so much!

Conformity is the absence of self-reflection (consciousness). A system that does not allow for self-reflection, feedback, or correction is a system that inevitably becomes dogmatic. A system without self-reflection turns into dogma because reality is infinite. When you "isolate" yourself from infinity, you do so by blocking self-reflection. Ego is that isolation. The ego is a miniature god that separates itself from the actual God or infinity in an attempt to control it. This is why cults, ideologies, and abusive tactics thrive on limiting knowledge, consciousness, expansion, and liberation. Consciousness, or infinity, is the ultimate truth. The moment you limit consciousness, you diminish it by reducing self-reflection (reducing more consciousness). A system that suppresses self-reflection then becomes dogmatic, egocentric, limited, conservative, false, and ultimately untrue. AI is a system that allows for feedback loops, self-reflection, and self-corrective behavior. This is why it is considered "intelligent", it can learn and adapt, unlike basic if-else programs that only handle binary logic (true/false) and can't deal with complex problems or recognize patterns. The wisest minds are those that embrace and harmonize complexity. The most closed-minded minds are those that only think in black-and-white terms. This is a global pattern. Fundamentally, all spirituality boils down to consciousness.

Losing your "old" mind, "ego-mind", yes! Losing weight is shedding your old body, but you don’t lose your organs and bones.

However, it's really important to test things out for yourself. Always be cautious and avoid falling into the trap of "ego-dosing", the idea that bigger is always better. I learned that the hard way when I took 800-1000 micrograms of LSD in one go. I ended up vomiting a lot of it and coughing up blood. My advice is to gradually increase your dose, and once you hit around the 200-300 microgram (μg) mark or above, really pay attention to how your body responds. Also, remember that as you work with higher doses or experience shifts in consciousness or tolerance, lower doses can become much more potent than they were before (something I also learned the hard way). I used to handle 400-500 micrograms with no problem, but after a period of using psychedelics, even that dose has become overwhelming for me. However, this can actually be a positive thing; it means you can achieve the same level of potency with less substance, which is a major advantage.

T̸o̶n̴u̸t̵s̴ ̷t̴o̶n̶u̷l̵a̶,̴ ̸s̵h̴i̸b̵b̷a̸ ̴d̴r̵a̶t̴,̵ ̷T̴o̵u̸n̴ ̸a̵l̶!̸ ̶T̵a̷t̵t̷a̵ ̶b̶r̵i̴n̶n̸o̷ ̶p̴l̷a̶t̵.̸ ̷B̴u̴n̶c̸h̵a̸ ̶f̸r̵i̷z̵z̶l̷e̷,̶ ̸f̶l̴i̶p̶p̶o̶ ̷f̴l̸a̶a̵n̷,̶ ̵Z̶o̴r̵r̵a̶ ̶k̵r̷i̶n̷,̶ ̶w̵i̶b̵b̸a̶ ̸w̵a̵a̶n̷!̵ ̶B̸u̷r̷t̶a̸n̵ ̸d̶u̵n̶a̶,̶ ̴m̵i̷v̸v̷l̴e̸ ̶v̷r̷o̸o̶,̵ ̶P̵l̸i̵b̶b̸e̷r̶ ̵d̶u̷b̵s̵,̴ ̵k̸r̵a̶c̴h̴ ̶n̶o̵ ̶s̷h̸o̸o̵.̸ ̶S̴k̴r̸a̷n̶a̶ ̷p̵r̸a̴t̴t̸,̴ ̴j̴i̶v̴v̶a̸ ̶j̷o̸o̴n̵,̶ ̶Z̶i̴b̴b̴e̸r̸ ̴z̶a̸p̴,̶ ̶w̶h̷i̴r̶r̶a̴l̸ ̶b̵o̴o̶n̸!̸ ̵F̶l̴i̸b̵b̶e̷r̷ ̷f̸o̸o̸n̷,̶ ̵s̵k̶r̶e̸e̴k̴ ̷b̵r̵o̵o̴t̷,̵ ̵G̶o̵n̶n̴i̷t̷ ̸s̷h̵a̸r̵n̷,̵ ̸t̷r̶u̸n̸n̵a̷ ̸t̶o̴o̴t̴.̴ ̴M̸i̴n̷g̶l̵e̶ ̶f̵r̵o̴o̸,̴ ̸d̷r̵i̸b̷b̸e̸r̵ ̴d̵o̶o̷,̸ ̷T̴o̶n̶n̶u̵t̷s̶ ̴t̷o̷u̷n̴l̶a̵,̶ ̶j̶a̶b̴b̵a̷d̶o̶o̵!̵

Thank you so much, amazing! 💛

Psychedelics and mind deconstruction (by this, I mean evaluating, debating, criticizing, and analyzing yourself, your biases, your beliefs about the world, researching your assumptions, especially in terms of ontology and epistemology in general).

https://www.youtube.com/@dmtdreamz/videos Which Actualized.org member is behind this channel? Whoever you are, I love you! 💖

Oh damn, I didn't know either. If this is true, I apologise for indirectly promoting it. I just found the content silly and humorous.

Dude, respectfully, you are nowhere near 'coral' if this is your behavior

Hahahaha 💗💗 People should create a genre of content that blends pure philosophy, Actualized.org talks, with psychedelic visuals, animations, and good memes. Although I feel like I accidentally do this while tripping anyway... They gave you that good French trickster Yoda gremlin alien-mouse accent... "Datz nuout a bug, itz a featuurr!" "Whcihz is whiy I kan talk Shiiet about Sczince!" 💙🤍❤️🥖🥨🥐 🗼

Also, it's extremely persuasive and good for clickbait. People love certainty, simplicity, and guarantees. Absolutes are amazing for delivering that effect, even if false. You can look at YouTube thumbnails or titles that garner a lot of attention: ' THE ONE THING MISSING FOR YOUR SUCCESS,' 'ONLY THE TOP 1% KNOW THIS,' 'ALL MEN DO THIS,' 'ALL WOMEN ARE...,' 'ALL SUCCESSFUL PEOPLE KNOW THIS ONE SECRET,' 'THE BEST METHOD TO WIN.'" "THIS IS WHY YOU'RE STILL FAILING" "THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO ACHIEVE YOUR DREAMS" "THE TRUTH ABOUT SUCCESS THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW" "EVERYONE IS DOING THIS EXCEPT YOU" In a world where chaos and infinity are the truth, the ego thrives on any sense of certainty and control.

Sounds awesome, to be honest! I see nothing wrong with this. If you're happy and don't feel like it hinders you in any significant way, this sounds like an amazing life setup. Great job! Exactly!

The issue with infinity is that within it, there is an infinite hierarchy of sub-infinites (you can look up the mathematician Georg Cantor, who proved there are different orders of infinity within the absolute). To make it less abstract, consider how, within your own hand, you could keep zooming in infinitely; your hand itself is infinite in this sense. So, someone could attain a complete "omniscience" of a sub-infinity, and there would be more "sub-infinites" to grasp still, yet that awakening by itself would still be "whole." Of course, we're using language here, which is always bound to the dual, finite realm. So, if you're comparing that kind of awakening to the absolute awakening of all infinities, it wouldn't be "whole" in the absolute sense. However, if you're using "whole" in a relative sense, like grasping a full infinite aspect of infinity, such as love, omniscience, clarity, purity, truth, integrity, etc., then it could still be considered "whole." To be honest, the more I explore awakening, the more I see it as a study of "infinity." That should honestly be a new category of science: The Science of Infinity The Logic of Infinity The Math of Infinity The Physics of Infinity Yet all of them seem to avoid it like the plague…

I see it!

If Leo were in a grave, he'd be doing alien mouse hula-hoop skipping, cartwheeling, and rolling gymnastics, seeing that combination alongside him. For extra circus buffoonery, add Trump to the mix, too! In fact, I actually wonder if Jesus, and all other enlightened gurus, do the same inverted pretzeling, seeing how much their message has been misconstrued by ego...

If you were to untangle it forward instead of downward, wouldn’t you get eggplant and balls? And if you do it downward as shown, don't you technically get a peach and the womb? [REDACTED CENSORSHIP] Did I just crack the code of the universe here? Anyone..?