bambi

There are several Enlightened people who 5meo and all psychedelics stopped working entirely. And they had all the God-realisaiton stages too, so Id remain open minded that all of conciousness in its entirety is suspended in a larger context/perspective, and this is Enlightenment, and once you get there all pscyhedelics will stop having any effect. Your being very evengelic with psychedelics being the ultimate perspectiv Also just map all this to states of samadhi/meditation, there is The Mind Base of Infinite Conciounsess as the 6th Stage, this is suspended in a higher stage of Base of Nothingness, that is suspended in The Base of Neither-perception-nor-non-perception, and finally Nibbana/Void. It seems to me all pscyhedelic experiences are in the Mind base of Infinite Conciousness, which is 2 stops away from the highest energy fields and perspectives

@Water by the River yes I get you. We are talking about Enlightenment being the Absolute perspective of all possible Universes, all possible Creation

I think there is a communication issue. Have you seen the following map from David Hawkins (I know I keep peddling it), but specifically the left hand colunm, I am trying to reconcile everyones perspectives using his work. He say 1000 is the highest you can embody on the human plane, but he say it goes upto infinity, this kind of corroborates what you say

Thanks for this post, this is my understanding of it all too. What and where is the role in pyschedelics along the journey then?

Ive taken MDMA so many times in my 20s, I see it as a recreational drug. Alcohol can make you feel your authentic or real self too. Maybe it has its uses in some situations, like Ketamine. But it feels toxic on the system/body, and feels like a temporary bypass to me.

Thanks. Guess it just seems like a circle jerk without substance, people keep parroting generic superlatives but dont or cant explain in any capacity what about his work they liked or find useful. Which means A) they simply didnt understand it, or dont have the capacity to explain it, B) it doesnt have the substance they claim it has Your last paragraph is more clear though, so thanks.

I wuld disagree with your understanding of meditation. The aim is not to queit the mind, this is a misconception held by many. Meditation is basically learning to be with yourself in deeper and deeper ways, its surrendering/letting go/accepting. This can to take formal ways i.e. sitting on your couch in silence and darkness for 2 hrs, or informla ways being in nature by yourself and being immersed. Ultimately, formal meditation is formal continuss micro acts of surrender and letting go, thoughts, feelings, identites, energtetic tensions etc etc

I just saw this diagram from a video Roger Thisdall in another thread, is almost a direct isomorph of Hawkins map

Has anyone experienced a permenant dissolution of ego-structure via the use of psychedelics, or is it always temporary? @Leo Gura you have a blgo video in 2019 regarding your ego structure being seen for the first time, and you insinuate in the video it was permenant, has this remanied the same since 2019? What was the substance you used, you speak highly of it in the video but dont disclose, you claim is even more powerful then 5meo

How would I do that? I have only ever done this thing on discord. I recently started using zoom, I guess that could be used too, but is that allowed? That would also be external software Either way Hawkins has 100-200hrs of lectures and theyre pretty good. I am watching twice a week 1-1.5hrs, I am completely amenable though if others want to get involved

No I agree with your assessment and am also a stimulant recoverying person. I guess I believe that the feeling of rundown/zapped out/drained after is healing, I could be completely wrong on this but as per the other thread, I think th D1/2/3/4 agonism is helping to heal and regenerate the dopamine receptors and this is a good thing. It takes a few days after to recovery but all deep healing is like this. Of course the science and data is no where near on this and theres alot of blind optimism on my side, but I did research with gpt 4o, and there is data to suggest dopaminergic agonists can heal and resensitize the receptors. Further theres people who have not abused dopamine, who dont have this seem zapped out feeling I do, whcih I furhter take as a sign of healing. Ive been abusing internet, ornography, cocaine etc for alot fo my childhood, adolescence and adulthood in different periods

Sure if you can provide some excerperts or unique things he has said. Ive read 100s of spiritual books, and seen his videos, I dont see anything profound infact I find him to struggle to articulate things clearly, but please change my mind, give me some of his ideas or content you found so genius (this is a genuine request, Im sure I am being flippant with him)

What are the drawbacks besides time? LSD seems like a more holistic integrative healing tool to me. Even helps Dopaminergic system. I think it has better healing for those who have abused sitmulants For me Mushrooms are more narrow, more unstable, more loopy, more scary tbh. LSD seems more balanced and stable and less loopy, more clear, while still being intense

Actually I find the higher mapping to be most useful. And they explain all of the arguments within eastern traditions and sects in Buddhism. The higher levels explain how non-duality is not full Enlightenment for example, which even integrates Leos work. Hawkins just does it in a much more sophisticated comprehensive manner. All the paradoxes and stages like Being vs Non Being, and Existence vs Non Existence, Samsara vs Nirvana, are all on his model an explained at various levels. Im yet to find a flaw in it. OF course there are more emotions then what he lists, and more complexity could be added. But to me it seems the best map to date

Ah thats a shame, study groups would be fun, I watch 1-2 hrs several times a week, would be fun to do it with others and share our thoughts feelings and perspectives. But respect the rules

Got you. Power of letting go, the eye of the eye, and trasncending the levels of conciousness are all great works too. I think the genuine intention to surrender your personal ego and further your personal mind must be in place, as you go higher there is less pressure or percieved force, there is nothing telling you to do anything, the final surrenders must be done out of love to your-Self. "Until they are willing; a thousand Buddhas will not help them" I have his video lectures and am watching them. I would be open to doing watching groups/study groups on Discord if others where interesting in watching and discussing

Hmm Ive read all his work and hes pretty clear to me, you surrender the totality of ego to the greater field of Awareness, you do this momenarily throughout the day. The spiritual will and commitment and intention must be there to do this. It corroborates all other spiritual teachers actually IS that a hawkins qoute?

Hmm actually one onyl has to trasncend all of the levels. Each level or dimension is infinite within itself. Transcending all levels to full enlightenment would suggest a total perspective or absolute perspective on all of this. Hawkins wont be able to deliniate every instance or behaviour based on shame for example, he just needs to demarcate it, its a heuristic Is there anything specific you disagree with?

I dont know why people reject David Hawkins maps and works, they pretty much accurately encapsulate, integrate and explain the totality of spirituality and theology. It's like theyre so accurate and simple people prefer the story and complexity of ignoring them. Hawkins has the Void/Cessation/Nibanna at 800/1000 and an important purfiication step on the way to higher levels of enlightenment. His model intergates and explains literally every single spriitual disagreement, ambiguity and misunderstanding. Including non-duality, enlightenment, different levels and stages of non-duality and enlightenment, pitfalls, misunderstandings etc etc

@CARDOZZO appreciate the reply but you literally didnt answer my question at all

Can you give me some examples of the genuis, or things he has said/excerpts that caused this? I know we all resonate in different ways, Im just genuinely curious as I watched some of his videos and dont see anything special, so maybe Im missing something

I have watched Ralstons work there is absolutely nothing genius, unique or special about anyhtign he says compared to any other 'enlightened' or spiritual person. He just is eccentric and idyosnchratic and is incriedbly poor at explaining himself or tethering his ideas to any formalisation, which gives an air of mystery or pseudo-intellect. I dont see it at all, I think Leo bought some lemons with Ralston. People like Osho, Adyashanti, Sadhguru, David Hawkins, Ken Wilber, etc etc offer everythign Ralston does plus 1000x more

Dr David Hawkins already solved all of this theory and work. Conciousness itself is not the highest field. Awareness itself suspends conciousness, and Perception suspends Awerness, and Nibbana/Void/Nothingness suspends perception. Each layer is infinitely times more powerful and energetic. Enlightenment is beyond the last layer. Leo is clearly not interested in these layers or enligthenment, he enjoys simply exploring conciousness in its infinte imagination, that his joy and bias. Probably as an INTP 548 he has an egoic need to find some novel understanding or add something intellignet or competencey to the domain of spirituality, and so hes trying to do it with conciousness exploration. This is not the same as enlightenment. Enlightenment is of a energetic field that contains and suspends conciousness

Sounds intense, and like Enlgihtenment, did this happen to you, did the after-effects last?

I think this is a good idea. My worst trips are me being disconnected from God/life expelled into a dark cold abyss, then seeing the devil (which look like a reflection of me, and the outline of a red portal of hell' It last 3-4 hrs of pure terror, im literally shaking and begging for mercy. It's hard to conctextualise or interpret this trip, or integrate it. It simply leaves you incredibly fearful and frightened But then I had experiences where I broke through to higher levels of Love, that made it seem as the disconnect was made by me, that I had disconnect myself and was bringing myself into a pit of my own making, simply due to all the unconcious fear I had buit around life and God. But its all so difificult to make sense of.