bambi

Sorry I find it hard to parse your response, isnt very readable to me Are you saying psychedelics dont promote any type of net neurogenesis, but are simply reparing their own damage they cuase?

Serotonin (5-HT) and dopamine agonists can contribute to receptor health through various mechanisms that promote neuroplasticity, receptor sensitivity, and overall neural function. Here’s a more detailed explanation: ### Mechanisms of 5-HT and Dopamine Agonists in Receptor Health 1. **Receptor Regulation and Sensitivity**: - **Desensitization and Resensitization**: Agonists can initially cause receptor activation, which may lead to desensitization. Over time, the regulation mechanisms can help resensitize the receptors, maintaining their responsiveness. This cycling can prevent receptor downregulation and promote receptor health. - **Upregulation**: Chronic agonist treatment can lead to an upregulation of certain receptors, making neurons more responsive to neurotransmitters. 2. **Neuroplasticity**: - **Synaptogenesis**: Agonists can stimulate the formation of new synapses, enhancing the connectivity between neurons. This is crucial for maintaining a healthy neural network and receptor functionality. - **Dendritic Growth**: Activation of these receptors can promote dendritic branching and growth, increasing the surface area for synaptic contacts and improving communication between neurons. 3. **Neuroprotection**: - **Antioxidant Effects**: Some agonists have neuroprotective properties that can reduce oxidative stress, protecting receptors and neurons from damage. - **Anti-inflammatory Effects**: Reducing neuroinflammation can prevent receptor damage and support overall brain health. 4. **Balanced Neurotransmitter Systems**: - **Homeostasis**: Agonists can help balance neurotransmitter systems. For example, dopamine agonists can alleviate dopamine deficits in conditions like Parkinson’s disease, improving motor function and receptor health. - **Cross-talk Between Systems**: Serotonin and dopamine systems interact. Enhancing one system can positively influence the other, promoting overall neurotransmitter balance and receptor function. 5. **Mood and Cognitive Enhancements**: - **Improved Mental Health**: By alleviating symptoms of depression and anxiety, serotonin and dopamine agonists can lead to a more positive mental state, which supports cognitive function and brain health. - **Enhanced Motivation and Reward Processing**: Dopamine agonists can improve motivation and reward processing, which is beneficial for mental and cognitive health. ### Clinical Implications - **Parkinson’s Disease**: Dopamine agonists are commonly used to treat Parkinson’s disease by stimulating dopamine receptors, which helps to improve motor function and slow disease progression. - **Depression and Anxiety**: Certain 5-HT receptor agonists are used in treating depression and anxiety, helping to normalize serotonin levels and improve mood and cognitive function. - **Neuropsychiatric Disorders**: Agonists for both serotonin and dopamine receptors are being researched and used for various neuropsychiatric disorders, promoting receptor health and overall neural function. In summary, serotonin and dopamine agonists help maintain receptor health by promoting receptor regulation, enhancing neuroplasticity, providing neuroprotection, balancing neurotransmitter systems, and improving mental health. These effects contribute to the overall resilience and functionality of neural networks.

IS anyone else on board with the theory these D* agonists and 5HT* can help repair receptors in occasional considered use??

Belief is such a gross reduction and oversimplifcaiton of what is actually going on. Your mind literally distorts reality, your being is the lens to reality. And your being can be highly contracted and in pain and feel seperated. It is the opposite of a surface level belief. You cant think your way to enlightenment. Its deeply embodied emotional-energetic-conciouses perspective in felt sense of identity and all that it entails: beliefs, emotions, energy, perspectives. Working on the level of emotion, behaviour, intention and experience is way more powerful then simply 'belief' IME, YMMV

All of this is cheap langugae games of humans lost in abstraction. Sure from the ultimate perspective there are no unenlightned beings, and this can be your perspective when you are enlightened Or from the perspective of deaht there is no life lol do you see the insanity??? There is no life when you are dead. But right now you are alive so dont worry about your death, worry about your life Right now you are lost inseperation and suffering so dont worry about the absolute perspective, worry about your seperation and suffering, deal with this first I think thats why the historical Buddha refused metahpysical discourse, its just a massive circle jerk of abstraction and self-delusion with no action, doesnt lead anywhere

This is literally spiritual bypassing for me, and is endemic within certain groups. Maybe eventually everyone can realise a rope isnt a snake, and at that moment the realisaiton will be made. But people might see a rope moving on the floor in the distance and act and behave as if its a snake, with fear and anxiety. Its akin to saying no one is alive, because when we are dead we are all dead. Being dead doesnt negate your life. In the same way being Enlightened doesnt negate all those who are unenlightened. Its quite clear that there are different experiences fo conciousness that are ubiqitous across humans, theres seperative states of low levels of conciousness: shame, anger, pride, guilt etc, some people live there daily existence locked into this paradigms, and its not fun. Theres also states and experience of less seperation, expansion, love, oneness etc, these are much more pleasurable and enjoyble and some people live as this as their default paradigm

What do you think is Buddhist about his post lol?

I dont take ketamine or alcohol anymore (7-8 months sober), but I liked taking them both along with meditating to go deep into the k hole, I could get deeper with alcohol and ketamine

Not knocking ketamine, its my favourite drug, half a bottle of rum, 1g of ketamine and relaxing is my favourite past time

I had every possible 'realisation' you can have on ketamine, Ive done it over 1000x probably, including 200+ with intensive spiritual practise. It was always short lived. I found psychedelics way more healing, they can be more scary and more loving depending on your sins/behaviours etc, but they feel more like real spiritual work.

Ketamine just isnt going to awaken you to love anywhere near the same as traditional psychedelics. Im really dubious about Ketamine for any spiritual work at all. And I have explored that compound more than anyone else I have come across.

Just opening it up to discussion, surely we should be discussing and researching this. Your insinuating that you have personally experienced some negative effects of prolonged use, but are being mysteriously obtuse about it?

I agree with ketamine etc in terms of bladder toxicity, and also pyschologically to dissociate from pain and trauma seems like a fools errand in medium and long term. However with the 5HT receptor agonists and the D1/2/3/4 agonists, I am extremely interesting to know if they can cause long term damage vs increasing sensitization and receptor cycling. For example parkinson treatment drugs have a simliar effect as LSD on dopamine receptors. Heres a response from GPT: The idea that 5-HT (serotonin) agonists, such as psychedelics, could improve receptor health is an intriguing one, but it requires careful consideration of what is meant by "receptor health" and the context in which these substances are used. Here's a detailed look at the potential impacts of 5-HT agonists on serotonin receptors and overall brain health: Potential Benefits of 5-HT Agonists Neuroplasticity: Neurogenesis and Synaptogenesis: Some studies suggest that psychedelics like psilocybin and LSD can promote neurogenesis (the growth of new neurons) and synaptogenesis (the formation of new synaptic connections). These processes can contribute to overall brain health and cognitive flexibility. BDNF (Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor): Psychedelics have been shown to increase levels of BDNF, a protein that supports the survival of existing neurons and encourages the growth of new neurons and synapses. Increased BDNF levels are associated with improved mood, cognition, and brain resilience. Receptor Sensitivity and Density: While chronic use of 5-HT agonists can lead to downregulation (a decrease in receptor density or sensitivity), intermittent or therapeutic use might have different effects. For instance, some evidence suggests that periodic use of psychedelics can "reset" or optimize receptor functioning, potentially improving receptor sensitivity. Anti-Inflammatory Effects: Some psychedelics have anti-inflammatory properties, which can contribute to brain health by reducing neuroinflammation. Chronic inflammation in the brain is linked to various neurodegenerative diseases and mental health disorders. Psychological and Behavioral Benefits: Mood and Anxiety Disorders: Clinical studies have shown that psychedelics can be effective in treating depression, anxiety, PTSD, and other mood disorders. By alleviating these conditions, psychedelics may indirectly support brain health by reducing stress and promoting a more positive mental state. Cognitive Flexibility: Psychedelics can enhance cognitive flexibility, creativity, and problem-solving skills, which are beneficial for mental health and adaptive behaviors. Considerations and Risks Dose and Frequency: The potential benefits of 5-HT agonists are highly dependent on the dose and frequency of use. Therapeutic and controlled use under medical supervision is more likely to result in positive outcomes than recreational or uncontrolled use. Individual Variation: People respond differently to psychedelics, and what might be beneficial for one person could be harmful to another. Factors such as genetics, mental health history, and current psychological state play a significant role in how psychedelics affect the brain. Tolerance and Downregulation: Chronic or frequent use of psychedelics can lead to tolerance, where the receptors become less sensitive over time. This could negate some of the potential benefits and might even harm receptor health if use is excessive. Psychedelic Integration: The benefits of psychedelics are often maximized when combined with therapeutic practices such as psychotherapy, mindfulness, and behavioral interventions. Simply taking psychedelics without proper integration may not lead to long-term improvements in brain health. Conclusion 5-HT agonists like psilocybin, LSD, and 5-MeO-DMT have the potential to improve certain aspects of brain health through mechanisms like neuroplasticity, anti-inflammatory effects, and enhanced cognitive flexibility. However, these benefits are highly context-dependent and rely on controlled, therapeutic use. The concept of "receptor health" is complex, and while psychedelics may optimize receptor functioning in some cases, they can also lead to tolerance and downregulation with misuse. It's essential to approach the use of psychedelics with caution and ideally under professional guidance to maximize potential benefits and minimize risks.

Hmm not really, theres many a coherent explanation for why this occurs, but you arent acknowledging it, your just re-iterating your dogmatism around psychedelics and God-conciousness No your not reading: they took psychedelics, experienced everything you did, infact some were incredibly sesnitive to psychedelics at points in their journey. But when they reach full ego-dissolution, realised anatta, etc etc, they stopped working in any reasonable quantity, incluidng 5meo dmt This is explained by the mere fact all of conciousness experience is contained within Perception, Perception trasncends and includes conciounsess experience as a higher but more subtle energy field, When your being/energy is at the leve of Perception and even above, its more than logical that conciousness expeirences wont have the same relative energetic impact or degree Of course they could all be deluded liars, lieing to us, thats the easy comforting story

No their are people who took pscyhedelcis as part of their Enlightenment journey, and then reached Enlightenment and they dont work any more. Even Frank Yang is one of these, but there are others. You just seem incredibly skeptical that this could ever be the case or something, that these people are frauds and liars lol

No sorry you are not understanding: pointing out that Leo is identified with his own opinions, positions, persepctives and models, is pointing out something so obvious it doesnt need to be stated and adds nothing to the intellectual discourse.

Eh? Leo is clearly intelligent enough to know what models are, we are in an intellectual discussion, we are asking him to recognise and acknowledge his own modelling to further the conversation... Your post is a non-sequitor and doesnt add anything, its a complete subjective imposition to break the dialogue lol, your just derailing things so that you can add your 2 cents and feel good about it lol!!

All Im saying is that there has to be more to spirituality then psychedelics, no matter how useful or powerful they are, surely your intuition tells you this? You also are not explaining how pscyhedelics stop working or effecting enlightened people, which shows an anomoly

Im sorry Im not sure how this post relates to my posts or the previous posts?

No, you either remain silent about conciousness and spirituality, or you develop formal or informal models for communicative and illustrative purposes. You just aren't acknowledging this for some reason

Actually it is a type of psuedo or informal model. You are doing a very small representative description of an aspect of conciousness by making the claim it has degrees, you make further claims about it too. Im not sure why you wouldnt inhernetly understand this? "The statement "Consciousness has degrees" inherently implies an informal model, as it introduces a way to conceptualize consciousness in terms of varying levels or intensities. By asserting that consciousness has degrees, the speaker is making an abstraction of consciousness that categorizes it into different states or levels, which is a fundamental characteristic of modeling."

Where is the mistakes/how would you improve them. Your constantly creating and suggesting your own models even if your doing it informally... I dont see the mistakes in these models even in relation to what you speak.

There are several Enlightened people who 5meo and all psychedelics stopped working entirely. And they had all the God-realisaiton stages too, so Id remain open minded that all of conciousness in its entirety is suspended in a larger context/perspective, and this is Enlightenment, and once you get there all pscyhedelics will stop having any effect. Your being very evengelic with psychedelics being the ultimate perspectiv Also just map all this to states of samadhi/meditation, there is The Mind Base of Infinite Conciounsess as the 6th Stage, this is suspended in a higher stage of Base of Nothingness, that is suspended in The Base of Neither-perception-nor-non-perception, and finally Nibbana/Void. It seems to me all pscyhedelic experiences are in the Mind base of Infinite Conciousness, which is 2 stops away from the highest energy fields and perspectives

@Water by the River yes I get you. We are talking about Enlightenment being the Absolute perspective of all possible Universes, all possible Creation

I think there is a communication issue. Have you seen the following map from David Hawkins (I know I keep peddling it), but specifically the left hand colunm, I am trying to reconcile everyones perspectives using his work. He say 1000 is the highest you can embody on the human plane, but he say it goes upto infinity, this kind of corroborates what you say