Nilsi

Dude what are you smoking? I'm not dismissing these things at all. In fact, I love Jung and the whole Archetype spiel, but I'm not so foolish to think that there is any absolute reality to these things. It's just a question of what you choose to engage with. You could become enlightened by counting sheep in your mind, that doesn't give it any claim to truth though.

You designed it in the most beautiful and good way conceivable. You can explore infinitely diverse states of consciousness, in which you have an infinite range of abilities and consciousness of what you are doing, but in the end you will always want to come back to the way things were. Also notice that time is the method by which you explore yourself. So just because you are impatient and unwilling to put in the intent needed to get to these states, doesn't mean shit to the One that is beyond space and time.

I mean, it's the same as Jungian Archetypes or Astrology or whatever. If you put your mind to it and really focus on it, I'm sure it will become real for you. You could just as well meditate and get into a peaceful dreamy state of mind at noon or whenever else, if you put your mind to it.

Because you wouldn't create an inferior universe just to please your ego. I'm sure you could have this universe you're describing as a peak experience, but it wouldn't be stable and you would inevitably come back to this reality, and you would be left wondering, if what you just experienced was actually real or just a dream.

Psychedelics might get you there. Basically, you will realise that your mind is already manifesting reality, so there is really nothing preventing you from manifesting some pussy for yourself, other than your will. It's a specific state of consciousness and I wouldn't hold that as the way things absolutely are, but it's interesting (and shocking) to experience regardless. This is way beyond science though, so I'm not going to attempt to prove this to you.

I don't think you need a more elaborate approach than that. Be clear about what you want to attract and then visualise it every day. I don't think there's more to it than that really.

You could but you wouldn't. You run into paradox with these thought experiment's. The only way to conclusively answer this is through a peak experience of God.

Psycho-Cybernetics is pretty good.

That wasn't my point at all. The fact that there is an intent behind it makes it work. You could just as well shove your thumb up your butthole and meditate on the sensation in your prostate.

Seems to me like he is giving his people some kind of intent to focus on. It's not more superstitious than saying some mantra or focusing on chakras or whatever. It's kind of deceptive but so are all spiritual teachings in a certain sense so I wouldn't single this one out.

I'm aware of that; I was trying to make the case against having turquoise in the first place and since I don't see why yellow wouldn't care and act in service of all, the only thing left for turquoise would be some kind of spiritual claim.

That's where I would disagree. It's fundamentally a different approach and not comparable. The level of analysis that people like Schmachtenberger and Hall apply to complex systems is way above Sadhgurus paygrade and to such an extend, that it is not just a difference in degree, but also in kind. Sadhguru may very well be a lot more wise and mature in his approach, but Game B is really a unique and (at least to me) fascinating and compelling approach and I wouldn't rule it out so fast; time will tell if it can actually create meaningful results or if it's just way too ambitious and up in the clouds. I think one huge point that tends to be overlooked is that Game B is consciously banking on using exponential tech to facilitate their endeavor, while Sadhguru tends to be largely oblivious to these realities. It's a bold new world were heading toward and Game B might just be bold enough to help us navigate it. Also Game B is was less ideological that Sadhgurus foundation; Game B basically just stands for "the thing we have to do to not blow ourselves up," so it's quite platonic in that sense; it basically tries to optimize for the ideal Civilization without really specifying what that means. In a world of insanely powerful AI, I can see this actually working. What we need is the kind of dynamic set of specifications that an algorithm can optimize for without fucking shit up and that's a very delicate and complex (and so far rather theoretical and dry) endeavor.

This is just massive overfitting. It may be coherent to you, but nobody else will ever comprehend what you are trying to say. So no that's not genius, that's being on the spectrum.

Sounds like gibberish to me. What makes Spiral Dynamics so powerful, is, that it is grounded in cultural, as well as personal development. You are just making shit up and I don't see any use in it. If you want to create a model purely based on aesthetics at least put some work into it, so others can actually comprehend it.

That's just complete intellectual anarchy. Even the concept of turquoise is ambitious at best. What exactly are these higher stages supposed to represent?

For me personally Tier 2 means recognizing all the different parts and desires (survival, belonging, power, law & order, achievement, pluralism) of oneself and, for the first time in ones development, being able to not play them out against each other, but striving to find synthesis that acknowledges and embraces them all. I don't like the idea of a stage turquoise personally (if you're properly integrated you wouldn't pursue these things just for yourself); I would rather just hold this integral frame as it is and put another axis on it that could be called "Consciousness/Self-Awareness," if one wants to reconcile Spirituality with this model, instead of endlessly adding higher and higher stages (Tier 3 and all that madness). I would say the Game B people are basically in the business of designing a Civilization with a capital C, while Sadhguru is focusing on pragmatic solutions and creating change from within the current system. It's not obvious to me which is the better approach long-term. Schmachtenberger and the like would probably argue that civilization in it's current form is intrinsically self-terminating, no matter how much soil we save or how many people we enlighten, and I find that quite plausible when looking at the argumentation and premises on which these people operate. Enlightement will not prevent people from destroying the planet, and that's what Game B is about. Sadhguru is about Spirituality and Consciousness. In my proposed model Game B is operating on the developmental axis and Sadhguru on the spirituality axis (quite the oversimplification but it gets the point across I think). I will specify this even further to make my point clear. The Game B philosophy is basically about creating a skeletal version of Civilization (I hesitate to say blueprint because it's really not something concrete; Jordan Hall would call it "Deep Code"), that will then act as a strange attractor for our civilization. This might seem a bit esoteric and impractical but it's actually quite coherent and plausible once you actually take these dynamics and the whole systems/complexity view of reality seriously; obviously this will be a multi-generation process which makes Sadhgurus or even Leo's "you're imagining it all" approach quite compelling in contrast. I may be overfitting at points but my main point is that you can not compare Sadhguru and Game B nor should you throw spirituality and cognitive development in one bucket.

How in the world do you come to such a conclusion? You have been conditioned by Leos teachings and now everyone that talks about these things differently is seen as a con artist? I dont buy it for one minute. Not everybody is trying to teach what Leo is teaching, thats the first thing to keep in mind, but how would you tell if some realized being, who has had a different path, trys to communicate this stuff in a different way? I find it very hard to imagine that you could accurately tell who has had what kind of experience.

This makes me want to throw up in my mouth. Why dont you just drop the act and start talking like a human being? When you sit down in fron of your computer and log yourself into this forum with your username and password, you have lost your right to talk like youre some kind of awakened angel. This is just madness.

Where do you see yourself fitting into this? I can give you my perspective on it, which is, that like all of these teachers, you have had your peak experiences and now try to guide people toward them. None of these people claim to be awake in the sense that youre using the word. You are the equivalent of some Q anon internet troll, who has realized that the government is corrupt and is now talking shit about activists and NGOs, which at least try to do something about it. What are these people supposed to teach? The only reason you have heard of them is because they try to teach SOMETHING. You act like youre above this but youre not.

I find it hard to believe that you would not come to the conclusion that it matters. Are you really going to tell me that you actually live from a place where nothing matters at all? To me thats just a cop-out from taking on the responsibility to grow yourself. Its easy to sit here and flood us with your heart emojis. What is really fucking hard to do is actually embodying love and living and acting in service of it.

And sooner rather than later the company files for bankruptcy

It's not about spiritual ego. It's about your life. You are gonna create something one way or another, might as well do it consciously.

That's basically it, I would say.

The point in realising this is that you are now free to create your own meaning and values, don't disregard this.

I totally get that and I'm truly happy for you. I like to put things into perspective though for those who see this as a free pass to dick around. I like the back and forth between self-actualization work and enjoying myself and I don't think you truly ever transcend self-actualization, but that may just be me