Nilsi

I'm just showing you how ridiculous your demand for proof is. I'm also not telling you to believe me. I couldn't care less. I'm sharing my perspective as compellingly as possible and I'm always open for dialectic inquiry, but you're either communicating in bad faith, or you're just thinking sloppily.

Prove to me that it's possible to taste chocolate.

Dude you're in the middle east... I don't know much about your culture, but I do know that you don't go around harassing women for long without something bad happening to you. If you keep being so reckless you will get stabbed by her brother or her uncle will slit your throat. Don't be an idiot - this is about being subtle, charming and relatable (as much as that's possible for you).

Since when do we pretend that first person experience is provable. I thought this horse had been beaten to death by now. Leo has been explaining this to you for years now, so I won't bother.

Sexuality is also in our DNA, yet at a sufficient level of consciousness I can choose not to express it. In a genuine mystical state there is no mystic and no human body it could be tied to - framing it the way you do is the abstraction. The bodhisattva takes a religious vow to serve all sentient beings - this has nothing to do with it being true. It's not just possible, it's inevitable. I wouldn't call it neglect though and it's not a choice in that sense. Transcending physicality and all distinctions within reality makes all your notions fly out the window. I agree. I'm not pretending that humans can be impartial to their body. I'm saying at a certain level of consciousness you transcend this whole paradigm.

Not intending to take it daily - but people do take it daily and it seems to be fine. There is a whole gamut of medication and supplementation that pornstars take on a daily basis - it should be fine, if you cycle it -- again, not intending to do that, but interesting regardless.

lol You're the one spitting dogma. I'm talking from direct experience, which is why your little song and dance is so ridiculous to me. You deny my experience and then tell me I'm the one with burden of proof? Give me a break.

Yes there is consciousness without survival. Additionally there is survival without morality. So you're not just wrong, you're extra wrong.

You're gonna get eaten alive in sales, if you're truly a Kantian. I prescribe a rigorous reading of Nietzsche's "Beyond Good and Evil" & "The Geneaology of Morals" .

I feel like you're very much a religious thinker (and I mean this in the most charitable sense). God's Love isn't what we humans consider loving or nice - it's completely impartial and that's what makes it Love with a capital L. Read the book of Job in the bible - that might give you some insight into this.

The denial of consciousness is done on the level of morality . On a more serious note - you're just wrong, I'm sorry. Morality is a function of survival and you can directly access mystical states of consciousness that are beyond survival.

I'd say the exact opposite is true. The more conscious you are, the more any notions of evil and with that your conscience, anxieties, bad feelings etc. drop away. Not saying that's necessarily a level of consciousness appropriate and desirable for a human being, but it's true nonetheless. Even in the absence of awakening experiences, this is easily derivative from simple logic - it's just not a very pleasant insight, hence your avoidance of it.

Makes him a sage though . And who could argue with Wilber's absolutely unambiguous ranking of the sage being a more highly developed being than the saint .

Yes, but it's not like there is a limit to consciousness. Sure you can experience absolute consciousness, but that doesn't mean that you reach some kind of ceiling. In some ways yes, in some ways no - same goes for conscious people. You can employ certain litmus tests e.g. @Inliytened1's suggestion of checking for flexibility - but there are still infinite phenotypes that low or high consciousness could take on.

This one is so fucking good.

That's what your boss wants you to believe. His enterprise succeeding long-term mustn't be coupled to your personal success at all. Most every new sales person is cold calling their customers anyways - the job doesn't magically come pre packaged with a loyal customer base. That means there is a virtually infinite pool of new prospects. Whether they stick around and are ultimately satisfied with the deal or not doesn't mean jack shit once the contract is signed and the commission is payed out. You're guaranteed to be better off talking 10 people into a deal they don't really want to make than getting 1 loyal customer to stick around - unless you're really invested in the enterprise long term (which is why businesses like to shove stock options down their employees throats).

I call bs. Do you seriously believe there will come a point in your life at which you are "fully integrated?" When you're fully awake, there will only be light - but once that experience fades, there will be shadow again -- obviously. That's the mistake.

What makes you say that?

It's not really supposed to be about that though. This forum is clearly positioned as a place to talk with like minded people about your spiritual journey and things related to that. Of course making money is part of that, but so is everything else about human existence. There are innumerable "mastermind groups" for productivity, business, finance and such things out there. If you want to develop business skills together with your friends from this forum, you will have to persuade them into it somehow - dry reason won't get you all that far. Make a few millies and post some pictures of your hot girlfriend and your Bugatti and maybe people will be motivated to take that aspect of life serious themselves.

That's unfortunately not true. As a sales guy you have the same perverse incentives as the politician serving a limited term. It's way more advantageous for you to make as much money in as little time as possible, burn all bridges and move on to the next job, than it is for you to build long term relationships for an enterprise that isn't directly coupled to your self-interest.

It's not about being an asshole and treating others poorly - it's about seeing through these relative notions. I'm not telling you anything new, when I say that the integration of shadow material is an important part of becoming more conscious - and the negligence of this will certainly bottleneck your development at some point. Regardless of what this person's behavior says about their level of consciousness -- what does your combative and morally righteous stance towards such behavior say about your level of consciousness?

Or you're too biased and self-deceived to see through the facade. That attitude certainly skyrockets your odds of further deceiving yourself. I obviously don't want to white wash harassment and abuse, but your proposal is dangerous in it's own way.

Sales is always manipulative and so is every form of communication. Unless you want to postulate that communication can be an end in itself (which I don't buy - and certainly not in a business context), it is always geared toward some end - and thus effective communication means achieving that end. There are levels to manipulation of course - something as banal as speaking loud and clear enough to be understood is certainly not the same level of manipulation as some sophisticated Machiavellian trickery. The problem is that the whole incentive structure in sales is so brutally geared toward Machiavellianism. Sooner or later you will inevitably drop your "ethical standards" and just go full Wolf of Wall Street. As long as you sell something that's genuinely beneficial for your customer and you're just "helping him make a choice," you shouldn't be too worried about being immoral. There are certainly much "worse" things one could do.

I don't know how people call this guy "intellectually bankrupt" with a straight face. This presentation on Nietzsche, Dostoyevsky and the "Death of God" is absolutely pristine and elegantly lays out one of the hardest problems in contemporary thought.

If they gonna let him die in jail he will be mythologized like crazy - let's hope he makes it through though.