Nilsi

You're conflating the absolute with the relative as well though. Spirituality is pointing to the absolute. You can deny this all you want, but at a certain point these conversations just break down, because you can't contain the truth in some finite ethical system. It's almost as if some bald guy named Ken Wilber had been talking about this shit for 30 years now...

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. You can't give people that are spiritually clueless a say in these things, that's just out of question. We need better education, better parenting, better governance, better religion, better economics, better agriculture, better communities...- yes. You can't just nail some tenets to a wall and expect that to solve this problem.

Nobody here is advocating for abuse. This is like saying "if you're against gun control, you support school shootings."

In my book you're not being a man if you run away from your commitments and responsibilities.

Fine. The point is, you're not being a man then.

Go to psycINFO or whatever database your university uses and search for Spiral Dynamics, or Integral and related stuff.

Take it or leave it.

Ikr

Just running away from your family and generally being an asshole does not make you a man. You could have gone there for Christmas and had a straight forward face to face talk with your family about your boundaries, but instead you're hiding and ignoring them like a little child.

Why on God's green earth do you give these people authority in the first place? Totally. I'm interested in that as well. I don't see this trend. Isolation sucks. We should create culture, social systems and individuals, that are capable of supporting you and being there for you, but we can't walk your "spiritual path" for you, that's just how it is

That's fair, but dismissing modern knowledge entirely is obviously not a smart move either. It's not that interesting, I agree. The juice is really in all the models he's integrating. If you're deeply into psychology and familiar with all the source material, you will probably get way more out of this book, than an interested lay person, such as we will. Sex, Ecology, Spirituality is fantastic though (I hope you have read this one... or else!)

Every iteration of EA's FIFA is the same game at its core, yet compare FIFA 99 to FIFA 23.

He's actually not. The way he talks about those things is how they should he talked about. Whether you agree with his politics is another issue.

lol If anything, he should listen to Leo on this point. Leo is right for cutting through bullshit when it comes to Truth. If you try to fit Truth into some moral system, you corrupt it - that's the point, no?

Because one is a belief system and the other is a direct experience of Truth. I agree that we need better belief systems, that's not the issue.

Religion ≠ Spirituality

Let's develop ourselves and become integrated and mature people, but let's not fool ourselves when it comes to truth.

Yes it is. We're talking about truth, while everything else are cultural constructions, which can be contained and modified for the benefit of society - which is what we should be talking about.

Good for you. The problem is that while premodern societys did a good job of mapping out the inner individual experience of reality, it did not have the means to figure out the other dimensions of reality in the same depth. That's why he's saying premodernity got the levels right and modernity found the correlates in the other quadrants (and postmodernity figured out the high contextual sensitivity of all this knowledge). Of course all of this is downstream from truth, which is neither of the quadrants.

Why are we playing these games? We can talk about religion and I'm interested in that conversation, but that's not spirituality.

Spirituality is not happening within society. We can talk about creating a great society and I'm all for that, but that's not this conversation. We can even talk about religion. Spirituality is fundamentally your business and every attempt to undermine this is literally evil.

This is a stupid comparison. The problem is that people are stupid and don't understand truth and thus are not in a position to tell sages and mystics how they should go about their work.

What is philosophy? Actually, what is all of culture, if not this conversation?

That's not the point. It's not "every man for himself." It's "truth is sacred and shouldn't be outlawed just because it hurts your feelings."

The death cult ethics board.