Nilsi

We can agree as a society not to kill each other, but you will have to question and transcend these rules at some point in your spiritual journey. This doesn't mean, that it's not desirable to have these rules, only that they can not possibly be adequate for all states of consciousness.

It should be. Ideally you wouldn't do that.

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ChatGPT literally can't create original content.

Chilling cinematic vibes as well.

Gotta love Max Richter.

I'm not so sure about this. In the end these institutions will just be a microcosm of all the shit that's not working in governance at large, which as Osho put it so poetically is that "the people are retarded." Spirituality is the nearest thing to a safe haven from human bullshit we have and we're just not mature enough to tinker with it in a way that is helpful.

An ethics board would have cracked down on Adi Das commune from the first day, which would have resulted in a lot of people missing out on genuine spiritual growth; Carl Jung would have lost his clinical practice for consensual sex with his clients; Leo would be banned from YouTube for telling people they are imagining all of reality; Ralston would be cancelled for using his enlightenment to beat people up... If you force people to operate on some lowest common denominator, you kill all genuine spiritual and creative expression. A simple linear ruleset isn't adequate for dealing with the complexity of reality in any scenario. Add in an executive function and you're destined to wreak havoc. The only earnest solution is to think about the ethics of spiritual practice in the context of the whole Kosmos; of all the issues upstream and downstream and all the resulting externalities... And pretty soon you're back to inquiring into the nature of reality itself, because you realize you can't solve a problem you don't fully understand.

How do you want to prevent this without creating a whole set of new problems? If you really care about people, you have to think about this from first principles and take into account the whole universe. Just from the reactions to this thread, you should be able to tell that this is not an omni-considerate solution, but a rather lazy pseudo solution. You're saying "let's focus on ethics to the detriment of other values, which I consider less important." How can we actually create spiritual teachers that won't do fucked up shit, without undermining their gifts and service? I bet you the solution doesn't involve the ten commandments and an ethics board.

Am I abusing my power if I seduce a girl in a college lecture? How about celebrities? Are they allowed to sleep with groupies? What if I fall in love with my secretary? Is society not organized in a dominance hierarchy? Does that mean all sex is an abuse of power? This is silly logic.

Now you're just making shit up. If I join a hippie commune and as I'm getting acculturated, I drop some previously held boundaries and social constructs and end up having a bisexual orgy - is that manipulation and power dynamics, or is it me opening myself up to new experiences?

The difference being that in the cases of Adi Da, Osho, Carl Jung etc. all people involved did consent. Is BDSM unethical to you, just because someone is getting "hurt"?

I don't think Adi Da or Osho thought of the people in their communes as their "students." I could easily call you insensitive and absolutist for projecting your pet social constructs on different cultural contexts.

You have to be good at shutting up your logical mind, if you want to improve your game (you want to access SeFi ideally). Becoming a chess grandmaster certainly won't help with that.

It is not in the realm of things with which ethics should concern itself. Of course we want a marriage of beauty, goodness and truth, but this can only emerge naturally. If you let ethics reign over beauty and truth, the result will be way worse than had you just minded your own damn business.

It's a blur. If you're having a heart surgery, there is a clear "a to b" procedure and we can enforce clear ethical guidelines around it. If you're a psychoanalyst, things get a lot trickier. Do you think Peter Ralstons retreats are ethical? What about Carl Jung banging his patients? How about Adi Das commune? Is it unethical if it does what it's supposed to do? And, of course, ethics are directly antithetical to Truth.

Nice meme.

He [Ken Wilber] lacks, entirely, the 7th Code, and has no idea how/when/where each of the Codes have emerged. I will gladly challenge him to a public debate but he still hides out in his loft in Denver. The whole idea of “tiers” is uniquely language from our work which he “steals” in order to market his. The man lacks any ethical basis when he does so. He is nothing beyond RED-ORANGE. If he wants to develop his own system then he should do so without exploiting my life time of work which he continues to do.

When working on Zen, some people, owing to their incapability [or just reluctance] of raising the "doubt-sensation," begin to suppress the arising of thoughts. When all thoughts have been suppressed, these people experience a lucid and pure serenity, thoroughly clear, without the slightest taint. This, however, constitutes the very root source of the consciousness which they cannot break through. This is the consciousness within the realm of life and death. It is not Zen. Their fault is that at the start of their Zen practice they did not work penetratingly enough on the Hua Tou: thus, the doubt-sensation did not arise. As a result they either suppress thought and become dead-void heretics, or plunging into self-indulgent conceit, they mislead and cheat the ignorant, diverting people's faith and hindering their progress on the Bodhi Path.

How? Ever heard of Elon Musk, Daniel Schmachtenberger, Nikola Tesla...? INTJs are notoriously great at a lot of things. Leo is a prototypical INTJ.

Of course. I'm obviously not saying, "let's write a list of people that would be qualified to create and enforce such rules"; I'm saying "let's not create and enforce such rules in the first place."

This is the reality of your situation. I genuinely care for you, but I can't help you any other way than this.

If you insist. The finger is still pointing to the moon...