Nilsi

In our little metaphor you said you’d want to be with your loved one all the time and that it’s the same with the realization we’ve been talking about. I said I wouldn’t want to be with my one all the time. So in my mind there is no static hierarchy of values, but you seem to imply one. That’s what I want to get at. A difference in degree not in kind.

I guess what I want to find out is whether you take any one drive as fundamentally superior to any other. Name one thing that is not constantly in flux. I wouldn’t want to rely on that kind of evidence.

I’m capable of many things. I don’t see why this is different from, or more desirable than fulfilling any other drive. Why assume that there is some „final realization“ to be attained? As far as I’m concerned, there is no limit to the depth of realization one can attain — the same way mastering an instrument is completely open-ended.

It’s very possible for her to have an orgasm, but she wouldn’t and couldn’t have one all the time. Where even did you get the idea about something like „permanent enlightenment?“

Again, why privilege one drive over the others? I wouldn’t want to be with my loved one all the time. Sometimes I want to make some money, other times I want to spend some time with the boys, other times yet I want to be alone in nature, etc. I wouldn’t want to subordinate any one of those to another. They coexist in an infinitely complex and dynamic relationship — that’s what makes life meaningful (and that’s what makes her want you even more ).

What do you mean by „making it stick?“ To me it’s like being in love. I could be so engrossed in doing an ordinary task, that I totally forget about my loved one. Does that mean I’m not still in love with her the next time she crosses my mind?

Let me correct my statement: the dynamic of our relationship doesn’t allow any of us to step into our role as family member. I’m just the one that stopped attempting to make this work altogether. I have no problem calibrating to social contexts and playing a role — in fact I’m extremely good at it (working in sales, that’s basically my job).

As long as you don’t actually belief that one is privileged over the other, we agree.

I couldn’t care less about Sadhguru. This was an argument about linguistics, not about my „spiritual“ beliefs. I prefer to think of language as a human tool, rather than attributing some kind of transcendent meaning to words outside of any cultural context.

What’s the problem with admitting that there is no good reason why one should be privileged over the other, but still choosing one over the other? Wouldn‘t that be the real human argument?

If you want to reclaim the word spirituality for what you’re talking about, you run into the problem of not being able to name what Sadhguru is doing. „Materialistic bullshit“ is probably a bit too vague.

So it’s a utilitarian argument?

I know that should I tell a random person on the street that I’m into spirituality, their mind would immediately go to something like Sadhguru or the Dalai Llama. What you are talking about is basically just being hyper-aware of your mind’s workings.

Why would you privilege one state („the realization of the formless while still being immersed in form“) over the other („formlessness without the contents of the dream“)? One could make a case either way, as far as I’m concerned.

What would you call whatever Osho or Sadhguru do then? There is clearly a lot to gain from whatever it is they are doing.

In the actual experience the dream did end and I wasn’t a human being anymore. That experience is what I think about when I hear „waking up.“

Mozart also wasn’t into music for a hobby. And there have been countless 17 year old wannabe Mozarts that fucked up their life by pursuing music without having the necessary skills/talent to back such a life up. My main question was whether you see pursuing spirituality as something qualitatively different from pursuing music for example.

I can not play this role authentically, so trying to do so would be even less empathetic imo. This way they at least get an authentic interaction with me, even if the son-parent dynamic is broken.

Why would one call the experience of becoming lucid in a dream „waking up“ instead of calling waking up „waking up?“ My „realizing absolute truth“ experiences were more like waking up from a nights dream.

What is different about a 17 year old pursuing spirituality to a 17 year old pursuing music, or sports, or science?

In your analogy, what would be the equivalent to waking up from a nights dream?

I second that.

This is my Christmas vibe

Why do you feel the need to play some kind of role, when you don’t value your parents judgement? I stopped giving a fuck a long time ago — deliberately transgressing social norms and my families expectations of me is probably the only thing that will bring me some joy the next couple days (and booze) lol