StormLight

Leo criticizes and condemns people for being human and playing "ego games" the same way a madman would criticize a dog for acting playful and being its natural self.

On Jan 30th, Leo Gura had his most explosive outburst towards a user yet: Here are some facts about the issue: This was indeed directed to the user of the created thread Leo Gura had made a prior comment before this outburst that received no reply, where he was speaking in his regular tone. No exchange was made in between these comments, nor was any comment deleted, proving that the outburst came out suddenly, unexpectedly, and completely out of the blue. The user was not being overblown, boastful, grandiose, or overstating with his/her claims about their awakening state to elicit this type of behavior, not that being like that would remotely justify this malicious behavior in the least. You can read the full outburst here and see the context for yourself: https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/89530-awakened-now-what/?page=2 Leo Gura violated his own forum guidelines as shown below directly taken from: https://www.actualized.org/forum/guidelines/ #1 Rule: Don't Be A Jerk Speak to people with respect. Be conscious and kind. What’s NOT Allowed: Verbal abuse Calling members names like: stupid, idiot, moron, asshole, retard, evil, etc. Trash-talking, trolling, chronic criticism, blaming, or finger-pointing I checked in on the user myself to make sure he/she wasn't hurt, as the leader of the forum had just bullied this person, and had no idea the mental state and stability of the user, considering anyone here could be going through a very hard time and be easily pushed to the edge, but ignores this potential to pridefully "school" the user instead. Not to mention the very fact that venturing into this domain of spirituality can leave individuals frail, fragile, and on edge, as they could potentially be going through difficult things, like having they're notions of life or death put into question, leaving them more vulnerable than before. And the fact that users of the forum have committed suicide, the leadership of the forum was instead used to bully and point the finger. Also Leo takes assumption in the original message that the user was offended. "The reason you're offended and swarming around like fish because…" Where I verified with the user that he not offended, but more importantly, not hurt. Leo does this often with his users, as he assumes he knows the exact blueprint of completely unique and distinct individual, that display as faceless strangers on an internet forum. To make the matter more hypocritical, Leo Gura had just made posts within two weeks prior that he was looking to "crackdown" on toxicity, drama, and wants to increase the maturity of the forum. Featuring quotes such as: "I've been seeing a lot of needless drama, in-fighting, and toxic communication on this forum of late. This makes the whole ecosystem unpleasant for the majority of members who are decent, respectful, and follow the rules." https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/89049-notice-cleaning-up-forum-drama-toxicity/ "Thanks again to those who have been on good behavior from the beginning and never needed such warnings and reminders. I will also be making an effort to improve my communication with you to rise to the level of maturity, wisdom, and respect that you deserve." https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/89380-strict-crackdown-on-duplicate-accounts-immaturity/ "This forum will no longer be a safe haven for immature or emotionally unhinged people. Anyone not mature enough to communicate or socialize in a mentally-stable and integrous manner will simply not get to participate around me. If you cannot control your emotions, you're out. If you behave in an egotistical and dogmatic manner, you're out. If you attack other members of this community, you're out." https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/89380-strict-crackdown-on-duplicate-accounts-immaturity/ "Every time before you post, as you write your post, I want you to stop and ask yourself, "How is this post just me acting out my ego in the usual ways?", and "Is this post just me venting and justifying my selfishness?" https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/89066-reminder-of-why-youre-here/ On page 3 of the thread of the outburst, Leo Gura also continues with his maliciousness but directs it to another user: https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/89530-awakened-now-what/?page=3

Whether you guys think the outburst was abusive, mean, outlandish or not, can we at least agree on the thing?: That he said he was going to clean up his communications and he hasn't? "I will also be making an effort to improve my communication with you to rise to the level of maturity, wisdom, and respect that you deserve." https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/89380-strict-crackdown-on-duplicate-accounts-immaturity/ "This forum will no longer be a safe haven for immature or emotionally unhinged people. Anyone not mature enough to communicate or socialize in a mentally-stable and integrous manner will simply not get to participate around me." https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/89380-strict-crackdown-on-duplicate-accounts-immaturity/ The outburst was unhinged to me, he started going into Buddhism and a bunch of s*** that wasn't even mentioned in the thread at all prior! Seemed like total projection! The way leo dishes out critsim to others ruthelssly he deserves to be called out and held to his word.

This hasn't yet been cleared up by the guy who posted the comments in the first place, all we've had is second hand opinions. It would be good if this had more time for him to come and explain himself on what the outburst meant and clear it up, rather from the words of others, maybe I'll learn a thing or two. If this gets locked it'll never be spoken about or cleared up again then we won't know, after all this outburst has indeed at least somewhat divided people and changed their outlooks towards him, I think this is an important discussion.

That's fair, but its mainly the condescending, arrogantly elitst attitude that comes alongside it that should be made more greatly aware. That's textbook ego, the thing he claims to be against the most.

it's not just that, it's these harsh, verbally aggressive and condescending teachings being ingrained into the young naive followers of these teachings that I once was, coupled with strong push of psychedelic use, which really opens to the doors to complete unpredictability and risk

I suppose we don't really have an objective grounds for rules here. If I were to say to someone f*** you and tell them they're stupid, ignroant etc, I suppose if I claim it to be out of love or for they're own good then I can get away with it, because my abuse is just a form of love and teaching, leading them to new understanding or something. I don't buy it. My opinion is that no amount of abuse, being mean, is somehow for someone else's good, and is justified, that's why I made this thread. But this is just my opinion. If we're going to call each other cry babies then I suppose we are completely dismissing the fact, which I mentioned in the thread, that we have no idea what the person is going through that we are directing our "love" to, and that behavior could push them somewhere dark, or potentially even self harm or worse, as we have seen documented here. And Leo literally said 2 weeks prior he was trying to cutback on this himself, so why am I getting pushback? Hold the guy to his word!

Nice I never knew that! I would love to join that group!

@Thought Art good job, you got me good

so i guess it was just thin air he was directing it to, no proof of directing it to the poster of the topic lol sure ok cheers buddy

Sure, so it's adressed, and that people see the heights of the toxicity, I believe he is toxic, and I want other people to see it, and decide for themsevles, at the very least, I know very many people here would agree that this outburst was toxic. @Thought Art nah im good, how about you grow a conscience yes it was directed to the op

@Devin to display the verbal abuse

lol yeah ok buddy, how would you feel if the user had gone down a dark road after that abuse? would you then call me butthurt for standing up for myself and other people and trying to do whats right and point out verbal abuse, that is again, against the forum rules? yeah sure buddy, dont even get me started, youre the one not doing your job and overlooking when the leader of the forum is abusing their power, and worse yet, seeming to bow to it.

The amount of toxicity and damage I've received from his work has been significant, far outweighing the benefits. I'm grateful to be calling him out, I used to be a avid follower of his. it's not overblown, he was being overblown, and violated his own guidelines, as a moderator shouldn't you do something about that? I think there's a fine line bewtween abuse and discipline, I would be openly ciritcal of zen masters if I could see some of theyre behaviors You seem to easily dismiss blatant verbal toxicity that's against the forum rules

I don't believe in bullying people into awakening or being mean to people to get the "more awake", I view it as bullying and hurtful intent. I would never want to bully someone or be harsh with someone into awakening, because it's such delicate venture. Most people who are posting and being annoying are just young kids who don't know what theyre talking about, and don't deserve to be talked down to like the way he does. Also imagine a therapist bullying their clients into facing and releasing their trauma, calling them stupid and foolish and all that, I mean who would want that?

oh my god buddy, dont even, yes it was clearly directed to him

Oh yeah I'm not conscious enough eh? Not conscious enough to see blatant toxicity and verbal abuse? Hmm yeah sure. Oh, and those bullies back in my highschool were just highly conscious beings trying to teach people awakening. That makes sense, the more bullying = the more awake. Don't forget that outburst Leo made was also directed to the forum, that means you too buddy.

@Thought Art There was nothing remotely close to gaslighting or abuse on the case of the user who the outburst was directed to. Not only that, the user has rarely ever posted. So are you then saying it's ok for Leo to take the sum of his frustrations from elsewhere and unload them onto users who had no hand or contribution in building up those frustrations? Doesn't seem very wise to me, as he is so keen on being.

@supremeyingyang @The Mystical Man was just saying that this authority was unwarranted, which I think is a valid opinion/criticism that many now at this point would probably agree. It's ok to make rules and enforce them as best as you can as a authority of the forum but he goes so far past the line, I mean look at the post I made, he verbally abused the user and the forum to get across simply "that they didn't know what awakening is", I mean he could have just said that.

Good for you, go bully the nerds over at the universities for writing research essays because that in and of itself is cringe and insult-worthy. And you dont even know how much time I spent on this, 45 minutes, but go ahead and make an insult out of that too

@ZenAlex I wasn't winning, I was calling out blatant verbal toxicity. You wanna play that card buddy? Let's see, who spends more time on here, you or me?... I wrote it like that to keep my emotions out of it, but I guess you think that's some sort of good insult.

@MarkKol Right thanks. And here is another very toxic/threatening message he posted to a user : https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/89530-awakened-now-what/?page=3

@Osaid fair enough my bad

@Osaid it was directed to the user and the forum, how does that make it any better, it literally makes it worse

@flowboy holy shit! ahah. i cannot believe ive just read those things. I had to check for myself to make sure they were really said. And it just came out of nowhere!!!! unless someone deleted their comment where they were claiming some sort of "monumental" awakening or something but holy shit, it just came out of nowhere. wow, i dont even have to say anything about it this time this whole thread was started to basically address this issue.... wow