BlueOak

Lot of people have switched to American or African gas, a lot more effort went into renewables. Many of the grids, pipes, and lines are cut to Russia. The main thing is trust. People have short memories, industries and countries, not so much. They'd have to reinvest in opening up these routes again while remembering how they were burned by Russia last time. We let our guard down giving them so much leverage over our energy; it won't happen so easily again. - We were very arrogant and naive to believe nobody would ever 'dare', threaten our cushy energy supplies. the EU bubble in a detached nutshell. As for africa, if BRICS keep pushing, it'll be a battleground. It's mostly split.

Scared half to death. So reluctant it drove most of us mad, did you see the baby steps? Probably not from your perspective. It was like pulling teeth to get anything to Ukraine, even now its frustrating. Still now at this late stage people are afraid to shoot down drones or aircraft violating their airspace and threatening their civilian flights. It was only Ukraine themselves and holding the line to survive that earned them anything at all. Then years later we are almost at the point where now Ukraine can fight Russia on its own terms. Strikes on a power plant = strikes on a power plant. Invasions over the border = invasions over the border. Long range missiles are met with long range missiles (well mostly drones these days) People will disagree, but for me the Battle of Antonov Airport at the very start was the most significant of all. If Russia had won, this could have been a very different outcome. People would have pulled back, Ukraine might have fallen early with sporadic civil unrest over the years, that's what people in the west were preparing for.

We are evaluating pre war and post war, as unless WW3 does kick off, we are nearing the end. Pre war you were a stable country with a healthy, strong economy. You had a lot of money saved up for the good of future generations. Good relations east and west. Strong hopes for the future. You had energy leverage over the west, and potential trading partners in the east to come. You had it good. You had demographic problems, but then in this world many do. Your commanded a level of fear that was almost mythological. Nobody dared cross you. Currently: You have no money left. You do things like sell endless and useless government bonds to plug the gap, you print extra money, you are kicking the problem down the road for the subsequent generations. You kill off your best and brightest to seize their funds. The rest without money left the country, taking their technical expertise with them. Your economy is war. - What happens when there is no war? You have no refined oil left. You are buying it in to plug the gaps. Your Gas exports are being targetted. You are moving to a four day work week, in some areas three days. You keep pushing more and more onto the population to fund the war, from buying up their own gas to put into the tanks, to taxes. You have used up over 1 million of your lives, dead or wounded. Almost killed off, frightened off, or crippled a generation overall. You have isolated yourself from your biggest market, lost all your leverage. You are using up now insane amounts of manpower to take almost nothing on a daily basis. Your military stockpiles have been burned through, your threats are empty and your military a ill disciplined joke. You are no longer feared or respected by your enemies or friends. When in the past you almost had a mythos that nobody dared speak out or cross you, now Putin is down in Central Asia apologizing for destroying airliners of small countries. You have emptied your prisons, the remnants of which are now back in your society living large. Fortunately your best police are dying in Ukraine, so the criminals get to run the show. China is buying up your infrastructure; Asian cultures are moving in to taking up the labor shortages as you kill off your own in pointless suicidal charges. You war over dead burned out husks of settlements, which you yourself shell to nothing, all so Putin's ego can be satisfied that he took another 100 meters today. You have single handedly destroyed the worth of nuclear deterrence, because you threaten it every 5 minutes with no consequence, when it was an unspoken threat it carried real almost mythological weight to it. Your word means nothing anymore, almost every statement I hear a Russian politician say is worth nothing more than indifference or ridicule. Oh and if you don't stop hitting power plants, kiss goodbye to heat in winter for the western most Russian cities. Russia is already toast. Now all we wait for is how it will end. Will it splinter up into 12 regions and their independence movements? Will China just buy up large areas of it ad nausem until you are a puppet state? Will it pull back now and try to save itself and somehow survive? Will it spiral into bankruptcy until it's literally worth nothing to anyone? Will you rely on the charity of other countries to keep you afloat? *If you are not Russian, just consider you = Russia. Its late and editing this would be a pain :D.

You will believe this even when you use up your last man, machine and oil barrel. With no ability to pay for anything, no military left, no food, and no way to fuel or move around your own lands. Russian propaganda is the best in the world, bar none.

Law is only upheld if backed by force. The UN has none. China polices its alliance; the US polices its alliance with a possible agreement between the two, and a lot of friction along the border states. That's the best we'll get, and less than that if America keeps isolating from NATO, or if BRICS doesn't turn into a full military alliance with a dominant presence. With say India rivaling China in military and economic strength.

Yes. Though in a two pole system, who decides which laws we are following?

One last go. This country isn't as bad as this country: Is not how countries make policy. They don't sit here and objectively work out who is morally superior or objectively more detrimental to the interests or sovereignty of someone else. They look at their own national interests. These interests don't come from a single source; they are extremely multifaceted. As for the China point - you literally posted that China hasn't invaded anyone, when right now they are invading someone. https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20251012-china-philippines-trade-blame-over-boat-collision-in-disputed-sea I don't know why you'd both be confused that I raised the point and at the same time quote the point and answer it?

Both Ukraine and Russia will be very cold this winter. Kyiv lost its power. So now, as promised, Moscow has lost its power. Just for a few hours, but Belgorod wasn't so lucky again. Will the Russians learn to stop firing at power plants? Probably not.

"Russia has not borders but neither do other civilizations," Putins own words. https://www.newsweek.com/russia-endless-border-putin-rosenberg-bbc-threatening-comment-billboard-1861020 Russia wants whatever it can take. Right now that's not much. Its not a country its a collection of countries, and its been a lifelong ambition of Putin to restore what was lost when the USSR fell. He doesn't consider Ukraine a country, he doesn't consider the Ukranian leader a legimate leader. "The Soviet government created Soviet Ukraine. This is well known to everyone. Until then, there was never any Ukraine in the history of humanity," Putin said. https://www.businessinsider.com/putin-claims-map-proves-ukraine-not-real-despite-saying-ukraine-2023-5?op=1 Almost every war Russia has fought has been to topple old USSR countries, or retake old provinces.

China invaded Tibet and East Turkestan. They have also decided to claim everyone's territorial waters in the South China Sea. They repeatedly want to invade Taiwan. Just today they have been harassing filipino fishermen, in waters they have decided are theirs unilaterally. China has had more border disputes than anyone in my living memory. The point to carry forward however is to: Tell you this is a universal problem, and highlight the futility of the framing you are using. Picking two countries on the side you don't like and focusing on why they are not good compared to everyone else, or as bad as X. Individuals do this to make sure their own worldview is the right one in their mind. Why is one side worse than the other. <---- Countries don't make policy like this. A country is millions of people with a divergent set of interests, and when those interests are hindered by a country it is considered in a certain way, and policy made accordingly, when enough interests are threatened, its considered in a certain way; when they are aided, it's considered in a certain way.

There is economic pressure globally, as we are an interconnected system. Dismantling Russia is certainly costly in the short term, that's why nobody wanted to do it for years, but they've realised its the fastest way to stop them without direct military intervention or another 10 years of war. Whether that's Russia unable to fight, unable to support itself, breaking up into 12 nations, or entering negotiations with Ukraine. This guy has been reasonably consistent:

True. Then X number of years from now the world will be different, and the acting authority will be overthrown. Any power assuming the role of authority over other countries experiences this dynamic. So the question is does China walk into this role here? Does it press its authority and power outward to stabilize the situation, or does Saudi Arabia honor its military alliance with Pakistan, and then it's a larger regional conflict? The other possibility is the USA comes back to the airbase Trump wants so much in Afghanistan and uses it as an excuse, which I am sure will weigh into China's decision.

@zazen Thanks for adding some depth. With Pakistan sandwiched against two now hostile forces, I would guess it depends if China wants to intervene to stabilize it, they've given Pakistan a security guarantee, and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are in a defensive alliance. Everyone is using this moment of high world tension to settle old grudges. Afghanistan has made a large, multiple incursion along the border now. Allegedly, all seven Pakistani border outposts, to be confirmed. Heavy fighting, as shown in a clip here: 17:07, 19:20, 21:20. 23:55 etc for the actual battles. *This is what happens when nuclear weapons are no longer an effective deterrent to war. I squarely blame Russia for overusing nuclear threats and diminishing the impact of them.

I repeatedly gave you answers. I'll say it again. You are speaking about European countries banning Russia from European events for all the Russian hostile actions against them, and then asking me why they haven't banned Israel and Azerbaijan. Neither of these countries is attacking Europe. I am fine with the UK favoring Israel in a cold, almost hot world war scenario. I am not fine with them facilitating genocidal responses or actions. So if you are able to prove that the UK is complicit in genocide, I will be standing right there with you. At the moment i've been shown diplomatic rhetoric and a spy plane over a warzone (which needs explanation). My position on Israel's actions has been posted multiple times. I'll say it again if required: Cartoony Level Villainy. An understandable military action against Russian and Iranian backed groups in a cold/hot war scenario, was carried out like a cartoon villain who is trying to do everything possible to appear as such. Now my turn to ask a question: Why haven't you included China in this list? For all the atrocities they've committed. Iran for all the weapons its supplied to kill Ukranian civilians? Turkey or Iran for their actions in Syria? America for its wars? A hundred dictatorships using violence to maintain control. Just curious why that bias on violence exists within you. It doesn't in me, but if we are banning countries that are fighting or using force, we'll be banning most of the world. India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Thailand, Cambodia, etc.

If Russia nose dives much further, you'll be pawning that ring in 10 years to buy bread. To answer your question I asked GPT for the 20 most violent civilisations, ranked. Top 20 Most Violent Civilizations in History. Mongol Empire (1206–1368) – Total warfare, city destruction, massacres (~40–60 million deaths) British Empire (1600–1945) – Colonial conquest, famines, global wars (~35–50 million) Nazi Germany / Third Reich (1933–1945) – Genocide, world war aggression (~30–45 million) Imperial Japan (1895–1945) – Atrocities in China & Pacific, genocide, experimentation (~20–30 million) Soviet Union (1917–1991) – Political purges, famines, gulags, expansionism (~20–30 million) Roman Empire (27 BCE–476 CE) – Constant wars, slavery, mass executions (~10–20 million) Qing Dynasty, China (1644–1912) – Rebellions (Taiping, Dungan), internal repression (~25–40 million) Spanish Empire (1492–1898) – Conquest of Americas, Inquisition, colonial wars (~20–25 million) Ottoman Empire (1299–1923) – Continuous warfare, genocide, suppression (~10–20 million) French Empire (1600–1962) – Napoleonic Wars, colonial atrocities (~10–15 million) Chinese Warring States / Pre-Qin Era (475–221 BCE) – Near-constant wars and annihilations (~10–20 million) Aztec Empire (1300–1521) – Ritual human sacrifice, conquest (~1–2 million, extremely high per capita) Assyrian Empire (900–612 BCE) – Terror campaigns, deportations, annihilation (~1–2 million) Khmer Empire (800–1431) – Slave labor, brutal expansion (hundreds of thousands) United States (1776–present) – Native genocide, civil wars, foreign interventions (~10–20 million total impact) Arab Caliphates (Umayyad, Abbasid) (632–1258) – Religious wars, rapid expansion (millions) Russian Empire (1547–1917) – Conquest of Siberia, Caucasus, Central Asia (millions) Maya Civilization (2000 BCE–1697 CE) – Inter-city warfare, ritual sacrifice (hundreds of thousands) Zulu Kingdom (1816–1897) – Mfecane wars depopulated regions (~1–2 million) Ancient Egypt (3100–30 BCE) – Forced labor, military expansion, suppression (hundreds of thousands) It also wanted to mention these: 21. Khmer Rouge (Cambodia, 1975–1979) – ~2 million killed (~25% of population) 22. Byzantine Empire – Centuries of warfare and brutal internal politics 23. Persian Empires (Achaemenid & Sassanid) – Massive conquests, enslavement 24. Vikings (8th–11th centuries) – Raiding, slavery, local devastation 25. Crusader States (1096–1291) – Religious wars, massacres, short duration

@zazen Interesting, could be genocidal, could be data on military targets. But needs answering. *You edited after I posted but this more or less remains the same answer. I may add more to it tomorrow.

Says who? The people doing it? Well yes, that's their propaganda. Unless you are again meaning the olympics, eurovision and swift, which i've explained above. Oh and the UK is not complicit in genocide; it's just unable to do anything about it. Its considerably less powerful than the US, and unable to project power or influence in a way that affects the region.

China has called for banning all rare metal exports to western countries. https://www.chathamhouse.org/2025/10/chinas-new-restrictions-rare-earth-exports-send-stark-warning-west There are plenty of stories and POV's on it if anyone needs more. This is why its always been incredibly stupid to give China as much leverage as it's received over our economies. I have said so for a very long time now. It's like we want to make life hard for ourselves, or rather, money is always more important than regulation far too often. Meanwhile, America has called for 100% tariffs on China, after they started all of this mess. In Russian the economy still keeps tanking, four day work weeks are being normalised. Transport connections are failing, people can't get gas, and truck lines are queuing up. A true remake of the USSR's fall. I saw a great statement. If a snail had started at the border of Russia when this war started, it'd be in Poland by now.

@Apparition of Jack This is a significantly more useful way to look at it, if a comparison has to be made. As it's set in a global context. Rather than a 'why is europe not liking Russia' context. Which is what the Eurovision, Olympics, etc are about. Both countries have been disastrous for world order and stability. As has been repeatedly pointed out, most people (and countries) in Europe, and much of asia would rather sit at home and not get involved if given the choice. China has put a lot of material and money into Russia, they recently signed another infrastructure agreement, which is in practicality one-way. China is buying up Russia bit by bit to keep it running and many asian countries are now being asked to settle labor there (as Russia is chewing through its own people). China is honestly benefiting the most out of this conflict, a bit like how Russia's oil or weapon exports benefit when the Middle East is ablaze, and that's why it's giving arms to Hamas. Peace doesn't benefit Russia at all there. China do supply Russia with munitions; some of this has been caught on camera but more directly in the munitions themselves when captured, such as weapon components. It is believed but not proven that these are moved through North Korea to Russia.

Its more than weekly their state threatens various countries in europe so I am surprised you've never heard of it. Perhaps because they threaten the UK on a regular basis? I see myself more as European than British. But in the UK we don't take well to threats. Maybe you missed the last several years of direct and indirect threats somehow? if so I suggest investigating a bit more. But are you seriously unaware of all the drones and Russian aircraft flying over airports and shutting them down? The direct military exercises Russia conducts to simulate the invasion of Europe? The nuclear threats and energy/food blackmail that have occurred for three years? The movement of Russian missiles to the Belarusian border, Belarus arming itself with nukes? The spy networks inside Europe uncovered? The assassinations? All the cyberattacks? All the swastikas they paint over Europe, the meddling in Polish, Romanian, and Moldovan elections, the Kaliningrad electronic attacks? Flooding migrants into Europe to destabalise it, so much so Poland shoot them on the border. On and On this list can go. This is why we live in two different worlds and you are surprised when what is to me the obvious happens. If we go to war with Russia, Russia has provoked the hell out of NATO. To the point, I think them cowardly for not responding to the constant provocation over their own skies. Did Russia really deserve this. YES. This is a fraction of what they deserve. A country that is under threat from Russia is not going to treat them normally. Eurovision. Swift Olympics inside Europe It seems to me you bury your head in the sand as to what Russia does. I'm not even speaking of the constant rhetoric out of their diplomats, or Putin's veiled threats, or anything inside Ukraine either which to me makes America look like pale by comparison. The day I saw a Russian tank on camera firing directly at old man walking down the road from about 50 feet away, that is a good picture of the Russian army. Their entire strategy has been one of terror. - People say to me oh that sounds Russophobic, and I feel utterly gaslit. They literally have fire missiles into civilian infastructure and apartments for the entire war and kill or imprison anyone who speaks out against it. They pardoned all their war criminals, giving them medals, Putin directly has said anything goes. - That is the difference with America, they arrest theirs. When they are telling me 5 years from now Russia wasn't that bad i'll be losing my mind.

Eurovision - i'm not surprised they keep threatening to kill all of Europe! They've committed acts of terror for years. Via migration, energy/food blackmail, drones/fighter jets, political threats, cyberattacks, meddling in elections, domestic destabalisation etc. SWIFT - Done for economic pressure to end the war. Olympics - This is in Europe! lol. Nobody is going to host a country invading and trying to destabilize the continent. Putin: "Russia knows no borders." Me: "Well its learning them now!"

Do you think it inaccurate to say Capitalism and socialism are on a scale then? We are very far into capitalism, I agree, but I've always framed reality to have these four poles. So I can call a policy either more or less socialist or more or less capitalist. I find it a helpful point of reference to how much I will be paying for something directly or through taxation for example.

Predictable childish behavioral patterns going unchecked until adulthood. This is mostly mocked and often legislated against now, culminating in arrests often, but still exists in many people, and in some cases is a large piece of a country's psyche.

It is a socialist policy, on one of the most critical policies there can be. Education, Healthcare and welfare are three of the pillars of any society. I know you hate the word, but it's just a word.

Death can be infinity. It can also be you pulled or coming back here for the next life. Depending on attachments.