Vercingetorix

how this align with the facts (and correct me if I'm wrong) that: 1) there was no country named Palestine here, it was always a land part of an empire (even under Jordanian and Egyptian control they were not given a country). Palestinians always lived under another's rule, so there is no difference for them if they live under Israel rule - and as we see today with Israel's 21% of Arab population that are pretty happy to live here. 2) Israelis accepted the UN decision for two states and only after The Arab countries tries to annihilate it a few times seized control of Gaza and West Bank and started the so called "Ethnic cleansing") 3) Zionists also accepted Peel commission plans that gave the Arabs 80% of the Land in 1937! 4)Israel were willing to Give Sinai back to Egypt, and withdraw from Gaza

As you wish. But it seems to me that your behavior is quite childish. If you have good arguments against Zionist I'll be happy to hear. I hope all of us are here because we care about the truth and we want to grow, and are happy when others can point us our blind spots.

You could have worked another remote job at the meantime and get paid double (I don't encourage it, it's not ethical but it's a possibility nevertheless) https://www.reddit.com/r/overemployed/ Anyway sounds like a good learning experience for you for your inner growth.

@MrTruf wow such a high quality and enlightening message (the irony!) From a consciousness work perspective, do you believe that your judgments help the world? or It's just your defense mechanism because it's hard for you to cope with your frustrations when you read posts here?

interesting read. this is IDF response: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-defence-forces-response-to-claims-about-use-of-lavender-ai-database-in-gaza

So do you think that if Hamas could, they would hide and shoot their rockets from non civilian places? that they don't have a strategy to hide beneath schools, hospitals etc. because they knew in the past that Israel would usually refrain from bombing such places? And what about Hezbollah? you wouldn't claim that there isn't enough space in Lebanon like Gaza would you. because it seems they use exactly the same tactics of hiding their bases and ammunitions in civilian places as a strategy.

@Lyubov the indigenous of the land lived there under British control, Otman control, they were never independent nation!! So what's the difference for them to live under Israeli law? And as if they didn't have the opportunity to get their own land in 1948 and they choose to try exterminating Israel

And do you believe that "Palestinians" is a less imaginary concept ? At least Israel existed as a nation for many centuries. At least Israel accepted a quite fair two states proposal. But the Arabs didn't, and attacked. And if Israel had been defeated, we know how it would have ended...so of course wars has consequences, it's happen in every war. And Israel had the moral right to do what it had done, which was more moral than what Americans/Europeans/arabs have done in their conquests.

Wouldn't a more accurate metaphor would be that Israel build IDF bases in underground of civilian buildings? My point is not to defend Israel or anyone, but to understand what is the most ethical way wars can be fought. If you say that you are not allowed to bomb a hospital or a school even when it's hiding a military operation or rockets that are used to fire on civilians, you are enabling the use of civilians as Human shields, and I find it quite disgusting. If you want to fight, no problem, but fight like a man and don't hide behind children and woman. And it's so sickening that then you blame your enemy for it.

So why Israel left Gaza? why they agreed to Oslo accords?

@Raze When an organization is on brink of annihilation, and suddenly say things that contradict the idea it was inherently founded upon, would you blame me if I'm a bit suspicious about the validity of it's claim? isn't Hamas suicidal actions can be only understood from a place of Messianic delusions, that they are fighting War in the name of God?

@Raze have you read their manifesto? From ChatGPT: According to the original 1988 Hamas Charter, the group rejected any peaceful resolution or negotiation with Israel. It explicitly stated that all of historic Palestine, from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, is Islamic land that cannot be compromised. The charter framed the conflict as a religious obligation, emphasizing armed struggle (jihad) as the only means to liberate Palestine and eliminate Israel. However, in 2017, Hamas issued a new political document that marked a shift in its rhetoric. This document accepted the idea of a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders (the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem) as a temporary solution, though without recognizing Israel's right to exist. While this new stance suggests a more pragmatic approach, Hamas has maintained its commitment to the long-term goal of "liberating all of Palestine" and continues to refuse formal negotiations with Israel. In essence, while the 2017 document hinted at a potential openness to limited compromise, Hamas has not officially recognized Israel or expressed willingness to negotiate a permanent peace agreement.

If Israel will try this i believe they will be mascaraed sadly but good try

https://youtu.be/kDdK5NfUnw4 A respond to the response

@Leo Gura What are your claims exactly? That Israel's plan all along was to ethnic cleanse the Arabs from the country? That after 7th of October Israel's plan is to genocide the Palestinians? or that it was their plan all along? How do you explain that Israeli doctor found and removed cancer from Sinwar while he was in prison in Israel?

Leo's Secret Alien Daughter will inherit the site and turn the forum Intro a Trumpism secret Hub.

@Schizophonia Good question, I'm half French with Gallic roots (My family is from Bretagne)

What is exactly do you want to get out of this discussion? I can share that I got a degree in Physics also from the pursue of truth and got to more or less the same conclusion as Leo. I switched my to become a Life Coach as well through the help of Leo's Course.

The level of Self Bias is Ironic here. What was the native Indians spiral dynamic stage compared to The Palestinians?

@oldhandle Compared to what alternatives? Looking from pure Israeli perspective, Compared to not having a Jewish homeland or having a Jewish nation in Uganda, Quite well! Despite the conflict, Israel is pretty good place to live at. And The Jewish people are happy to have their own country. From a more philosophical stand point, Let's think What is Life's purpose? I think many people here agree that our purpose is to grow, develop ourselves and In Israel I believe there is enough balance between war and peace to allow such development.

@oldhandle My Great Grand father (Haim Bograshov [Boger] ) was part of the Zionist congress and advocated for building a Jewish state. it was seen as our Ancestral Homeland, A place were jews can leave in peace and safety without worrying about Pogroms and later The Holocaust. You have to understand that in Jewish culture even though for 2000 we were scattered and to an extent nomads, we always yearned to go back to Israel. in many prayers and saying, in our most important holidays, we said and keep saying if abroad "for next year In Jerusalem" -reflecting our yearning for Having our own state in Israel. The connection to the land for many people is spiritual.

Good stuff here!

I imagine if it happened to my dad, that's hard bro. If you feel there is unfinished things between you and him it may be helpful to process it. you can complete these questions: Please forgive me for...(treating you like you didn't mean anything to me) I forgive you for... Thank you for... I love you for... Stay on each line and complete it as many times as you wish until nothing more comes to mind. The goal is to let emotions come up and process them until you feel lighter and free.

@royce So what is your peace proposal? how do you achieve peace when dealing with Red stage?