StephenK

@Faceless Yes, I can see that ultimately the dropping of any and all thoughts about meaning/meaninglessness would make sense, as meaninglessness can only exist as a concept when meaning is implied as a concept. Ultimately, one must let go of both and just be still. Also, do you think that fear drives ALL thought?

@Etagnwo Interesting post. I'll get back to you after I've truly reflected on what you've said. That makes sense. However, the relationship seems to be more nuanced than you're making it out to be. The drive for security can motivate one towards meaning/no-meaning, however, no-meaning can be a natural insight that triggers the dropping of suffering. It's interesting, as I can see how the mind can run towards no-meaning in order to self pacify, but no-meaning can also occur spontaneously and trigger peace. As I've asked other members in this thread: 'What do you mean by meaninglessness?'

@Etagnwo Morality is a separate issue from direct insight into meaninglessness I agree, but that also comes down to definitions. What is morality to you? Can you give some examples of what you consider to be an objectively moral or immoral act? My personal view is that true morality should be the system we use in order to minimize suffering. That's it. How we go about doing this is an open question imo. As for sugar always being sweet, nah, sweetness is not an innate property of sugar.

@Sparkist Well, if you define thinking about a word and describing clearly our reaction to it as ego, then sure, its ego. As for whether it's positive or negative or neutral (I find the neutral definition more reasonable) comes down to interpretation. As for it having to be one or the other, that comes down to the interpretation of person in question. The word 'Meaningless' is just a symbolic representation of an idea, or a 'feeling' in some cases. The hope is that dialogue can tease out these differences, and to some extent it has. Hooray!

@Nahm Healthy, in terms of leading one towards greater peace of mind and clarity of mind (in a spiritual context). Sense, by which I mean in alignment with what is. I know that seems vague, but its the best I can do .

@Outer Regarding saboteurs, do you believe that some people here are intentionally misleading others? Or do you think it is just a case of the blind leading the blind? The wide spectrum of views on offer here certainly makes one weary of which items to eat from this surreal buffet we call actualized.org

@Outer People might not admit that they secretly could be wrong, but their mere presence on this forum says otherwise. That being said, there are a few here that I do think consider themselves to be fully realized (whether they truly are is an open question). As for Jed McKenna, why do you assume he is truly spiritually realized? I've listened to him and he makes a lot of sense, but his writing seems a bit theatrical and really detracts from his message (at least as far as I am concerned).

@Ether The right way? I don't know about that... but whatever, I see your point of view.

@Ether Seems the same bruh . Say that to most people out there in the world, and they'll have a negative reaction to it...

@Ether I understand that most people have a negative association with the word 'meaningless', but some don't. I assumed it was used here, on this forum, in a more technical sense (as I am using it). But yeah, that's why most disagreements on this forum can come down to slight differences in the 'feelings' a word can bring up. What do you then think is a more appropriate word then for what I am describing? Genuinely curious since I cant think of one.

That makes sense. But how does it relate to what I said? Seems completely tangential. Every time I've looked at the meaning making structures that arise within awareness, I see the same thing: A series of logical inferences made about reality that contradict the reality of what I am actually experiencing. This happens over and over, and I've yet to come across a meaning-making thought that is true, in an unconditional way. Maya just is. Nope, that's not how I'm using the word. Meaninglessness does not imply negativity, nor does it imply you shouldn't read the book -- that's something you're inferring about the word. Meaninglessness is merely the negation of inferred meaning (assuming meaning is implied prior); it is not a value judgement. The is-ought gap is something that gets to the heart of meaninglessness as I am using it: that is, shit just is.

@Ether It's directly experienced. Things just are. Any meaning I give to things appears as clear as daylight. As you said: 'meaning does not exist', which is meaninglessness, as I am using the word. Why split hairs? Fear? @Outer Strangely enough, I'm not inclined to impulsive pleasure at all. I've been pretty much stone cold sober for most of my life. I'm the loser at the party that constantly refuses to drink haha . That being said, your first sentence does not make sense to me at all. As for the word 'meaninglessness', what do you think of when you hear it? Genuinely curious as this might just be a semantic issue. @Etagnwo Yes, it seems self evident in all things.

Over the last few weeks, my identification as the body has been weakening. The illusory boundary between what IS and ISN'T me is slowly evaporating. With this being experienced, I then asked myself: 'What is my true will? What is my true desire?' After a minute of mental silence, the answer that came back was: 'For everything to be, just the way it is, right now...' It dawned on me that as God/Universe/All, my will is EXISTENCE ITSELF. Questions around free-will/determinism self/other dissipated since from the perspective of GOD/True-Self, what is happening right now, is GOD's will. It is my WILL. They are one in the same. All there is, is WILL/CREATION and we are all doing it perfectly... I feel as if I have reached the eye of a storm that has been raging for a decade, and for the first time, I see that the storm is beautiful. I will fall back into the storm again, I know, but it is okay. The ego-mind is still present, but something has shifted. Into what, I do not know...

@zoey101 Thank you for the positive vibes. It's just so silent now. So still. No fireworks. The waters of the mind are so clear.

@Outer Why do you want to do this 'thinking'? What is the goal? @tsuki Why did you want to share your story? Love? Feedback? @Rilles Have the answers to your meditation questions been helpful in your practice? @Prabhaker I like your honesty. @molosku I can relate to that haha @MarkusSweden Do you enjoy having perceived enemies? I know I do sometimes. @pluto Why? Boredom? Catharsis?

You could learn to program -- just pick a random programming language and watch some tutorials on youtube. Once you've got the basics down, go to a website like CodeFights.com and solve the problems there. It's a great hobby to have, since if you get good at it, potential job opportunities open up as well. Win win in my opinion.

@ajasatya Thanks for the info. You have a very interesting set of skills. You must have a tremendous amount of freedom in the diversity of your future job prospects. I built hydroponic systems in my spare time during uni, so the idea of combining agriculture, data-science and web-development seemed like a match made in heaven. You seem to have realized that dream. Congrats!

@ajasatya Did you ever go to university, and if so, what did you study? Also, are you currently employed as a result of the skills you learnt on your own? Just curious, since I am also a web-developer (front end and back end) and hoping to get into data science in the near future (since I have a math background from my uni days)

Sometimes a statement that comes across as crude/rude can in fact be filled with the most love and compassion. Some spiritual teachings that initially irritated me have now brought me to tears of joy. A truly compassionate teacher will understand what resonates with their students I think.

Managed to do it for about 12 minutes. Started with building pressure within the head (like something energetic was building up, ready to pop), then felt sudden urges for the body to spasm into weird shapes (like being physically possessed), then the body felt incredibly heavy (like metal). This is when I stopped. All in all, I feel pretty calm now. My body still feels heavy, even now (20 minutes after the session). Interesting. Will try it again tomorrow and see what happens.

We don't, unless we've personally validated whats being said/experienced. For all you know, Leo is bat-shit crazy. It is up to you to validate/invalidate what is being said.

@Torkys Interesting. I haven't experienced this fully. Did you get to this state through meditation?

I mean vibrational in the sense that the sensation ebbs and flows (pulsates almost). So if the identity of the body was gone, the experience of pain would be neutral?

@Torkys I've noticed that when I focus on some unpleasant sensation (anxiety for instance), the actual anxiety is nothing more than a vibrational tone within the body; absent a narrative about it, it just 'is'. The suffering, as you say, comes about when the mind says: "this is unpleasant/i don't want this". What then actually differentiates pain from say a neutral sensation?

@Leo Gura Do you think Insight meditation can be done effectively without cultivating Concentration meditation skills? I read somewhere that people that only cultivate concentration states do not necessarily 'wake up'.