aetheroar

@GreenWoods Thanks for this...it makes sense. Transmissions were considered a few months ago, but couldn't find anywhere to receive. It honestly seems immensely counterintuitive that one wouldn't be capable of full God realization directly and without the use of psychedelics or guru's.

@Swarnim Sure thing

@Nahm This seems possible, certainly. How would one move forward on the path to attaining the ineffable realization after "the one" has already been realized as non-existent? It's as if the practice vanished with the practicing. There's no desires, nothing to do...life simply unfolds completely automatically, all things are of absolute beauty, no wish for anything to be any different, no attractions, no aversions...the mind doesn't name, create distinctions, and in fact is completely still and silent. Wow, really seeing the perspective of this for the first time. There's literally nothing to do and no one to do it, any feeling of incompletion is simply the mind trying to gain traction. Huh. *complete silence followed this* Curious what you mean about the states of consciousness...completely honest, most terminology isn't known to "me" because I've done this totally directly...the mind doesn't even have a definition for consciousness. Guessing on a definition of consciousness as "perceivable phenomena", is this correct? Are you pointing to consciousness being non-existent because there has only ever been the form/emptiness singularity? It's as if there's a puzzle piece missing to the full understanding of Allness being the absolute Truth, though even typing this, Allness is felt to be known absolutely. Wow...there's literally nothing there.

@Breakingthewall NN DMT. At this point of realization, psychedelics are clearly telling me to be done with them. The strange thing is that the meditator/meditation duality collapsed the moment of self-realization, the void was seen as the absolute core of being, yet the meditator and meditation no longer exist. Meditation completely stopped making sense in the moment the meditator vanished. I suppose that truly this means that there's nothing to be done, as "I" now exist as the end goal of meditation. *shrugs*

@Mu_ Thank you. The strange thing is that there's no questions to be found...they all dissolve the moment they arise, which is probably what the confusion is coming from...it's just the feeling of something potentially being a key to understanding but that thing can't be located.

@Swarnim I do not anymore, it alters the flow of energy dramatically. I see the relevance of your question and if you are considering stopping, I'd recommend it, but it will only work if by doing so you don't create aversion and you don't just transfer addictive tendencies to something else. It could be seen as extreme clinging to phenomena, creating a deep bias that one sensation is better than others.

@Salvijus This seems to be the likely scenario...the actual reading I've done on the path has pretty much been just The Heart Sutra and Diamond Sutra. A few other things here and there and very quickly realized that anything that says "this path is THE path" was going to get me stuck in concepts again, so it's been just direct experience insight from there out. I have definitely heard that mystical states are also largely fabricated and they aren't full disillusion. Thank you for the video, will take a look at it.

@Salvijus Hmm, infinite anything seems to be what calls out as “unrealized”. There’s some things read and some things realized. I tend to not carry things read along with the brain, and in fact lately tend to carry nothing at all, which is why it seems confusing. What is left to empty out? The realization went like this: Bring entire sense of self to one point inside the mind. Dissolve the container. Poof, now “I”, the emptiness, resides in the space between forms. Emptiness can not be perceived without form, so that duality collapses and now it’s a seamless whole. To be honest, I’ve never had a strong self sense. This mind has a thing called aphantasia (no minds eye), so the inner world has never really held anything beyond ideas (no actual substance, which is true for everyone but luckily for “me” it’s seemed quite obvious). No visuals on psychedelics and even dreams occur in conceptual format. Early on I realized the unreality of concepts, which along with no-self allowed me to stop objectifying, release preferences, and recognize the perfection in all things. There is a definite bias thinking that there’s more than full unification with the present moment based on what I’ve heard about “God-consciousness” but there’s literally nothing in this direct experience to point to that as a deeper truth. I suppose that, yes, “infinite love” is what seems to be missing. It’s a deeply peaceful state, but very limited feeling...definitely not something one would label “infinite” anything.

@WelcometoReality thank you. This has seemed to be the proper direction.

@fi1ghtclub Mmm yes, there’s been an automatic flow back into the world...used to be very introverted. Now the body is magnetically attracted to other humans. The interactions are very serendipitous and everything is smooth as butter. It’s been about 6 months of true uninterrupted happiness for me...no difference between a day at home alone or a day in town with friends. There does seem to be a pull to connect deeper all-around, which is why this post was created...without separation there is no space, so how can this feeling be that there is some level deeper?

@gettoefl thank you There was a period of time during this where I was smoking DMT at the peak of meditation to clarify/realize any insights I was having. Now my normal state of consciousness is where DMT used to take it and smoking it gives no effect.

Ask the one imagining if it’s real.

If one believes that our bodies are completely self-sustaining, our world is completely self-sustaining, in a self sustaining galaxy, in a self-sustaining cosmos where light is the source of energy to all matter, astrology can easily be rationally understood. Which direction do the plants move? Toward the light. The body came into the light at a very specific time. It would make sense that the all the light in the cosmos arrived at your precise location at birth and continues to arrive at your precise location at all times. If you are predetermined to be a certain way, it would make sense for that way to correspond directly to that which supplies your inner energy — all of the light in the cosmos as it converges to create your exact moment and everything within it. This being said, putting trust in astrology takes trust out of ourselves to an extent. Astrology is like trying to understand the taste of what we’re drinking by focusing on the origin and the future of the cup that holds the liquid. Sure, the cup is integral to the drink, and yes, by way of co-dependent origination DOES include the information we want, but the drink and the flavor is happening right at this moment, and contains 100% of the information within itself. Astrology relies on time, of the extrapolation of the data from the past into the future. This can potentially help one to prepare for what’s coming “next”, but it’s still trying to understand one part with another part of the cosmos...you can’t fully understand a part with a part, for a part contains only some of the information. If we can recognize that the present moment actually contains 100% of the exact information needed, we can find peace in the present by way of being rather than seeking partial understanding from elsewhere.

@sara373 No worries, hope it can shed some light on things for you. Correct, in the present moment, it is the resistance to how things ARE that is causing the suffering. This means that you’ve carried a belief system into the present (in the egoic mind) and it’s overlayed onto reality. So it goes: situation/object > through lens of beliefs > subject/ego If we can learn to arrive completely present to the moment, we leave beliefs behind. Everything that seems to be happening behind the eyes is illusion, everything in front of them (in light / en-light-ened) is Truth. Tools for this: insight into no-self can lead to a full collapse of judements if you truly realize it fully. Judgements go deep, even things such as “tree” can be considered judgements. That which we call a tree is not a tree, because it is fully one with existence. Calling it a tree is fine, but the truth must be seen more strongly than the label. If our eyes or mind pick it out as an object and name it, we’re already operating out of the light (subject-object dualism) That which happens behind the eyes of someone “else” is just as illusiory as what happens behind yours, and neither you nor they had anything to do with what beliefs were given to them. One can only act on what they “know”, so nobody ever knew any better and our judgement on them only makes the situation worse. Full 100% acceptance and insight into how things truly are will hopefully lead one to the understanding: all is One and nothing has any inherent existence beyond how it connects to everything else. The only thing that ever occurs occurs at the present moment. Anything we carry into the present moment that seems to be behind the eyes is going to cloud our presence. Every happening that triggers you is an offer from Spirit to release your conditionings and hold compassion for whatever has arisen and all involved. I would also recommend, if the space feels open to it, to open a discussion when triggers happen so you can understand that it’s not personal. If there’s no resistance and no belief systems, it’s literally just love. Love is the feeling of when you occupy the space between rather than the space behind.

This was to be a reply on another topic but seems suited for an individual discussion topic. This is simply a translation of the direct experience of reality from the viewpoint of this form, and in no way does it contain spiritual truths. If you can use it as a guide to understand yourself, lovely. Imagine the emotional system as a sort of AI machine that primes the body with hormones that correspond to whatever one believes the emotion means. The core of anger is being unable to escape from something which has been labeled as unsafe for survival. It is deeply rooted in fear and operates energetically in the lower chakras. The central chakra system is quite simple to understand in terms of lower (form), higher (formless) and the heart being the perfect centerpoint for unity. It can be true that after awakening and recognizing the deathless directly, the emotional response to a stimulus related to fear can be recognized and eventually dropped away completely. The emotion is like solidity in the body...it’s connected to a dualistic mindset about the emotion which is in the form of a belief system in the mind. We identify the feeling as anger and that traps it in the corresponding chakra because of the belief, which is a very gross sensation and thusly it seems easy to hold onto. The way out is to recognize the emotions are a complete non-duality, that they are simply energy moving in its various flavors, and maintain mindfulness during the experience so that the original mindset can be overwritten. Anger is not bad, anger is not even anger. Anger is a term we use to describe a type of energy which the egoic self has labeled as bad because it fears the death of the form (the death of self). In this it creates resistance and solidity in the body. It is just a sensation. With the self transcended, there’s no longer someone labeling things as good or bad, happy or sad. In this way, yes, the emotions will drop away, and a constant level of peace can be maintained. This requires a deep understanding of the human experience and an unshakable understanding of Truth. If you maintain mindful presence at all times and are okay with every core belief you have being wrong, all your core beliefs will fall away and you’ll be left with peace.

@Thought Art Haha, what was meant here is that all emotions, from anger, fear, sadness, joy, etc, are all part of a spectrum and are in themselves no-things. Each one "thing" that can be pointed to, emotions included, came from the complete whole and can not be understood individually. If something can not be understood individually because it is part of a spectrum, the ground for a conditioned response falls away. The reason here is that conditioned responses require something to be viewed as separate/permanent, otherwise what is even there to be averted or attracted to? Emotions can be understood as lightwaves within the body caused by a negative or positive charge (aversion or attraction) towards a perceived separate form of light, but both the perceived separate, the body, and the charge are a unified no-thing and fall away the moment the conditioned resistance (to aversion) or attachment (to attraction) is embodied without creating a future based "next step" of "what to do about it". This occurs automatically once the no-thing is realized as not being separate.

@Ascent X There definitely seems to be a split in the intellectual understanding of transcendence in the community. If something is within the whole, it can not be removed, only accepted to the point of complete embodiment. Once something is fully embodied, the "thing" is no longer separate, so there's nothing separating "you" from "it" and the need to intellectually understand becomes irrelevant because you ARE it.

@Ascent X Again, transcendence does not mean that emotions go away, it means you have become them completely, accept them fully, and recognize their non-dual nature. This releases one from their desires and aversions, which means they are no longer being controlled by their conditioning. The "but that's just being human" view is the ego trying to stay in the drivers seat. We are not human, and the formless realm awaits your presence every moment you believe it otherwise. We don't lose the ability to live by transcending our fears, we lost that when we carried our conditionings into the present moment. I fully agree that every "negative" experience has a lesson, but that lesson is ALWAYS to release our aversion to it. This doesn't mean you have to put yourself in "negative" situations, it just means that "negative" situations don't make you suffer anymore. Once this is realized fully, the emotional system ceases to cause more than a passing sensation.

@Raptorsin7 Mmm yes, there is a huge shift physiologically in transcendence... Notice that all of sensation occurs where emptiness meets form, not in the form itself. The whole body is seen as solid before awakening, as the ideas of "self" have manifested as solidity in the experience. Once the form is recognized as just a bunch of elemental light building on each other and the true ground of being is recognized and abided in, one becomes more attuned to emptiness. As such, the space is being recognized more thoroughly. This is especially true in the head, where most of us have been residing in the sense of self. It's possible at deep levels of surrender that the head vanishes from experience completely...you can literally feel like you're a dot floating in empty space. Yoga is incredibly important to reconnect to this feeling of spaciousness. Kundalini is the same thing, it's spaciousness clearing out solidity (a belief in something unchanging). Every belief we have is stored somewhere in the body as energy charged towards or against a certain type of sensation. We are just flowers that decided to move towards a specific type of light because we thought the sun wasn't exactly "it". The more we can deepen into the feeling rather than the conceptualizing/thinking, the more solidity falls away. Eventually the container for awareness falls away and the awareness fills in the space...like you "leaked out" or "flipped inside out" and now the sense of self resides everywhere, which in turn means it's nowhere.

@Batman The reason we don’t see eye-to-eye on anger is because anger is a no-thing and neither my eye nor your eye can see it directly. We can all have our own belief systems on what causes anger because anger is not something separate but a manifestation of energy within our own being. I am absolutely not advocating the repression of emotions, but there a way out of all discomfort in them by recognizing their arising as a manifestation of existence which is fully integrated with existence and perfection. The attribution of negativity to an emotional state is due to the ego having formed a belief about something which doesn’t fit in a belief. This is where all belief systems come from and why all belief systems are set up for failure - they do not accurately represent reality. It’s not an easy task by any means to drop all belief systems (positive and negative), but it is absolutely attainable through insight to arrive in a state of mind free of negative experiences. Yes, full transcendence of the emotional system can potentially lead to physical death IF one is not maintaining mindfulness, but at the point of full transcendence of the self, the continuation of life in the body isn’t even relevant anymore. If it is divine will to die at gunpoint for trying to compassionately speak to a shooter, this is precisely what will happen and there’s no negative thing within that. They deserve to be loved in their most brutal moments. Unconditional love will always trump deeply rooted fear in the face of adversity.

@Gianna You seem to have a great understanding of this already. Mindfulness in those moments is so deeply important. While it's important to some extent to understand the original beliefs and recognize the unreality of them, the real work comes with the present insight into the truth of the moment, as seeing the perfection and recognizing Divinity automatically rewrites the old beliefs. Think of it this way...the beliefs never represent the absolute truth of the moment. If you are feeling something that you want to run away from, it's an opportunity to release the conditioned responses into the perfection of the moment and form brand new understandings to unwrite these old ones. These brand new understandings are then recognized as being completely tailored to the exact experience we had, so we can't carry them away with us. Eventually, we show up every moment fully present, which means we have enough trust in our own ability to gather insight IN THE MOMENT. All of the information we need to navigate the moment is available in the moment, and we have no need to carry anything in or out (no past or future influence). This is the culmination of the path, the unbinding of karmic windings. Attractions and aversions can all be released...if you think a certain way about something, that thought is never equal to that thing - that thing can never be that thought. With this insight, we can allow ourselves to actually BE the sensations, treating them all as our equal, naturally being compassionate towards them all because they are we. If we carry nothing into the moment, the moment is always an opportunity to sink deeper into Divine Love, that which we always have been, that which is the connective emptiness between all apparent form.

@Thought Art Your thoughtful response is appreciated. Please know that the responses from my end may seem lacking...it's become difficult lately to navigate written conversation. Honestly still not sure why I'm here, haha! The main point I'm trying to get across is: Something happens in our past > we feel the emotion but don't navigate it because a safe container did not feel provided > we label it as bad and write it into a memory > this memory stays dormant until a similar thing happens in the future... Now there's two ways we could go here. If one is not maintaining right view, then > belief system triggers memory and emotion at the same time, yet it stays subconscious and we go with the conditioned response, which is to be averted to the feeling and thusly > suffering. The other option, if right view is maintained > belief system triggers memory and emotion at the same time, one is conscious of it, we recognize the perfection of the experience rather than being averted to it > the emotion is felt without being something bad > we have successfully dropped the aversion. Now the next time it occurs, there is no aversion and peace is maintained. Life is giving you these opportunities ALL THE TIME. The whole path is contained within and as itself through what appears. If one does this mindful work at all times, the karmic windings of aversions fall away with zero effort as the path walks itself. The transcendence of the emotional system simply means accepting all of them as one complete set, not being averted OR attracted to any of them individually, as they are not individual and should not be treated as such. It does not mean that what was previously experienced as sadness is not experienced anymore, just that it's seen as just another sensation, no better or worse than joy. In this, we can release all emotionality to the plane of existence without identifying with them, leaving us in a place where bliss can flower even within "sadness".

@Gianna This is all directly experienceable. Life is your guidebook on this. Watch very closely each time something arises.

@sara373 Sadness is the same: there is a belief system in the mind which has solidified the experience of the energy of sadness, attributed a negative viewpoint to it, and thusly creates aversion/suffering/resistance each time it arises. The sadness is not sad beyond what you believe about it. Frustration: you have an expectation of what is supposed to happen (belief system) and what is currently happening goes against that belief system, so the feeling of frustration occurs and is then resisted. Each emotion that has a negative belief associated with it will be resisted and will create the experience of suffering. Sadness is not sad. Anger is not angry. Frustration is not frustrating. They are all energy guiding you to recognize that your aversions are what create your suffering, not the actual experience which triggered said emotions.

@WokeBloke are you experiencing? Where is the experiencer and where do they keep their qualification documents? It is true, I contain no such qualifications, yet no such qualifications exist in truth.