Consept

Nah i dont agree, i think its important to not be judgemental of peoples beliefs and yes if you attack them people will not like that. However I think its very important to be authentic and also if you do align with truth and people feel that, you will filter out those that dont. So you wont be able to connect with as many people but the connections you do have will be authentic, this will mean letting go of people you may even like or want to be friends with. Also practically I dont think people mind being pushed on their opinions, there is a way to engage where you can have conversations about others beliefs without coming across like youre attacking. The main thing to understand is what is your motivation for pushing them? I found before i wanted them to change because i wanted to connect and needed them to be in my 'reality', but really you can just meet people where they are at and appreciate them for it

I can't understate the impact social media has and is having. It literally rewards conflict and inducing rage in others, it's so open to manipulation from outside forces (foreign governments, entities making money). The algorithm can send people down extremely radical rabbit holes and get the locked in echo chambers that potentially can be distrustful of real critical thinking. Add to this world events like covid and these wars which had massive repercussions for everyone and I think the combination of things has fried a lot of people's brains.

This happened to me personally and I guess i kinda just want to get it out, feel free to comment or give advice. I'm going to leave out a lot of specifics but hopefully youll get the gist. So im part of a sports and social type club, so its mainly men, but that participate but a woman owns and runs it and a few others help run it. Obviously im black and a lot of the other guys are black, most of the people that run it are white, this will become relevant in a bit. There has been flirting and stuff between the sexes but mostly respectful, when i started pretty much all the women had partners so nothing crazy happened. Where it got a bit weird was one time I took my top off to change after an event and I got looks from the women, not necessarily bad more like a bit flustered, I didnt really think too much of it, just to say as well everyone was getting changed that way so i wasnt doing it on purpose (probably was a part of me that wanted to show off lol). The woman that runs it made a comment after that it was a diet coke moment, again didnt really think much of it. Then a few weeks later before a game I needed to go to the toilet so i went in the bushes, I heard the comment 'watch you dont put someones eye out', from the owner, you can guess what this is referring to. I heard a few comments like this every now and then but basically tried to shut them down in a laugh it off type way. Then I actually started dating one of the women that was around the club after she broke up with another guy. After speaking to her I found out that there was a groupchat for the women literally named a joking word for dick, where my own dick and probably others was the subject of some of their convos. Apparently this had been happening for a while, where theyll say stuff in a joking way like 'its hard to look anywhere else when hes wearing shorts' or other such hilarious jokes. At first the woman I was dating was saying it in a way where its funny but I pointed out that imagine the roles were reversed and you had a male owner of a club where it was women competing and he set up a group talking to his mates about their vaginas. I mean im sure it happens but its pretty fucked up and not something shed condone. She did take it well and said she would say something if it was brought up again, however im kinda looking at her a bit different as well cos i think she shouldve said something before to them. It feels like a real double standard as if men should be happy to be objectified, thing with this situation is, I wasnt in on the joke at all, regardless if its a compliment to me or not, I dont really take it as such. It really got to me because ive been cool with everyone there, shown respect to them, just been myself generally and then to be reduced to just my sex organ and a stupid stereotype is actually offensive to me. What makes it worse is its basically a group of white people laughing about a black guys dick unashamedly. Its also clear that they know its kinda wrong because they dont really say it in front of me. the woman im seeing is also non-white though just to say. Anyway i know women go through this all the time so I'm not trying to take away from that, if anything i can empathise more with that situation but i guess just expressing how it made me feel personally.

I guess it's hard to get ones head around and I understand what you mean, as in if this girl says no just move on to the next who'll probably say yes. But I think what happens is they build up an entitlement around women as if they expect every woman to give them full access, so when one says no I think there's a certain outrage they may feel and they just take what they think is 'theirs' anyway. It's like if a kid in nursery thinks a communal toy belongs to them, when another kid plays with it they instantly grab it back even if they have to be aggressive. Also add in the fact that in Chamberlain's day very few men were getting charged with rape or sexual assault, so there's no consequences to dissuade him from doing it, not even social consequences. Now it's still fairly easy to not get charged but there are significant social consequences, which you can argue is good or bad.

Another one i hear a lot is, 'hes a good looking guy and rich etc women throw themselves at him why would he rape anyone', rape most times is about dominance and power, if a powerful guy gets rejected and feels entitled, its not too much of a stretch that he would go a further step and force something to happen, we've seen it happen countless times with rich and famous people.

Absolute scoundrel

I agree with you here Yeah I do sometimes feel like you project, thats not a dig at you just an observation, but i also appreciate your input. With the racism i think its easier to let it go with people you dont know, although it still does annoy me but I can put it down to ignorance. I think specifically for me its when the people know me but still come out with some racism conscious or otherwise. I do find it jarring, I dont know if thats something i want to learn to accept because i think it is good to speak up when something isnt right. At the same time i dont want to be someone whos looking for racism everywhere, which i dont think i do, but possibly i have done previously

I wouldnt say people keep reducing me to my physical body, I think generally im seen as more than that, even when it does happen as in if a woman is flirting with me or whatever im open to play with the dynamic even if im not attracted to the woman. In fact when i first joined this club i would flirt a little bit or at least respond positively, in just never crossed a certain line. I'm pretty strong internally and generally i get respect from a lot of people, i think what jars me is when you get reduced to that level by people that supposedly know you, it feels kinda underhanded, as they presented one way but really felt a different way about you. I'm also sensitive to when it happens to other people I dont really tolerate any racism around me no matter who its aimed at for example. The stuff with my uncle is representative of that because, hes supposed to know me. People in general it doesnt bother me. I mean i prefer for people to view me as my authentic self but its not something i can control. I think I do like the flexibility of role-play but the issue is im not in on most of this joke, theres literally a group chat im not involved where theyve shown pictures of me or talked about my dick, im not in on any of this so i didnt even have the chance to role play. I have flirted with some of them before but i just didnt realise the extent of what they were doing. OK fair enough, yeah im not in any kind of sex industry or put my body out there on social media so its not something I actively encourage, so potentially having the experience out of nowhere could be why it affected me. There is probably the racial element as well that gets to me, that does make my blood boil in general. theres no standard i set that allowed them or gave them permission to act like this, its just who they are and i guess in a way i shouldve expected something like this or not been that surprised. On the flip i have met some really good people through the club that actually surprised me the other way, so i guess just listen to my instincts about people more.

Its not about the double standards, but cool, you dont think that i can feel anything outside a logical outrage. I honestly dont care about the double standards Im more disappointed in their behaviour. Its a visceral feeling, not 'wait a minute, im not allowed to do that'. But your unwillingness to accept i might actually feel something does speak to a lot of these problems

I think you reducing this a lot. For one they dont know if i have a big dick or not, theyre saying it more based off of a stereotype. This isnt about them wanting to sleep with me, its just a way for them to have fun, kind of at my expense, im not in on the joke. I and the rest of the guys are not strippers who have accepted these type of things happen, we're just normal guys. If you think about it setting up a group, sharing pictures and making jokes in front of the target is a bit more than just looking at someone that youre attracted to, remember this was going on for 6 months. I dont think its wrong to have boundaries especially in a somewhat professional situation

Interesting, I was more saying women have their own struggles with it as I didnt want to dismiss that but yea thinking about it, I havent really experienced a group of adult men, objectifying a woman to this extent. However what you do get is essentially predators that are infinitely more dangerous and are capable of doing something egregious but my guess is its usually done solo, theres not a group dynamic. No i strongly disagree with you here, this is not a semantic argument thing of 'oh what if the tables were turned' i would only say that to give perspective. I genuinely felt objectified, reason is because I felt they reduced me to a sexual organ and made jokes that i could hear but not fully understand. If i heard it from random people its one thing but i saw them regularly once or twice a week, they got to no me etc. I had a similar feeling when a step uncle of mine, whos white, said something along the lines of 'youre just gonna look like one of those black boys' because i wore a silver chain when i was 18. I took offence because its like I see you as a complete person but you reduce me to a stereotype with ease. Obviously with the womens behaviour i didnt feel in danger or anything and Im not afraid to speak out, which is something I know is not a privilege of women. But you even dismissing that i might actually feel something that isnt just a rebellious argument, goes to show that a lot of women dont consider mens feelings. Thats not to get at you but i think it is an issue generally.

@LastThursday Thanks do much for your input, honestly so helpful. Yeah I think this definitely happened to some extent, essentially the owner was living a bit of a double life with the group and this bled over to normal social situations. I do think some of the humour was pushing the boundaries as well. Exactly yeah because there's a few them and no one calling it out it's just completely normalised. However they know it's not really right otherwise they wouldn't use coded language around me. So accurate again, I think that's it she wanted to keep her role in the group, however she does realise the flaws in the people involved and points them out, so she's aware they're not the most mature and to her credit doesn't fully follow them, for example they drink and party and she's never drunk before at all. So I do have respect for that and that she can hold her own identity. I'm not sure why she told me I wasn't really pressing her to, maybe on a sub-conscious level she felt it was the right thing to do. However, she kinda presented as, look at the funny banter we have. But her reaction of wanting to tell them not to do it anymore is positive. I do feel that she hasn't taken full accountability for her part in it, but I will grant her a bit of time with that. I am slightly conflicted about it, some things she handled well and others I'm not sure about

Wow, this is actually an amazingly accurate summation of what happened. I honestly don't think there was malicious intent as you say, it's really immature and how you describe but obviously I wasn't supposed to know. The other thing is that they would say things in front of me where I felt I wasn't in on the joke and obviously it was about me, so this kinda annoyed a little bit anyway, so I know something was going on. I guess that's part of their fun of how close can we get to the edge. What do you think about the girl that I'm seeing that told me about it, she didn't really say in a way where it was like, this is fucked up. She was also reluctant to tell me. She obviously got caught up in it and tagged along, assuming they've been doing this since I got there which was about 6 months I've only been seeing her 1 month so she wouldn't have had any specific loyalty to me before. Also unprompted she's now going to talk to this owner. I'm looking at her slightly different because I don't think I would've gone along with something like this but at the same time I get how it happens

The owner and the one driving the jokes is a lesbien, she might have been doing it because thats her type of humour or she knows the other girls find me attractive, I don't know the reason for sure but it's obviously a bit weird from my pov

Would you have sex with a butch lesbien you weren't attracted to?

That actually sounds horrible, sorry to hear that bro. It is weird though how the reactions to similar incidents are polar opposites based on gender, if you're a man it's laughed off if you're a woman it's taken extremely seriously with potentially a legal element. Yeah there's not a danger element for men, which could make it more severe, at no point in this situation did I feel fear for my safety I only felt disrespected as you say. However I think the typical situation for women is one of disrespect and sexual objectification, it's only really an extreme situation where a man will actually use his physicality. It's less likely to happen in the workplace for example (although of course it can happen). I think my situation happens to women regularly where there's also not really a fear element. You know what there's this other dynamic of 'am I being a buzz kill?', I think I'm just setting up my boundaries but I get the feeling they would feel like that. Thing is I've been in situations where a guy has made similar sexual jokes at a girl in front of girls and I didn't like it then, if its a girl I'm seeing forget it, you can't say that shit in front of me. With this situation I think the girl I'm seeing did kinda encourage it or at least not see anything wrong with it, I can give her a bit of leeway because I wasn't seeing her for quite a while and we didn't interact that much, but I think she shouldve called it out when she got to know me at least. Now she's saying she'll talk to the owner but there is an underlying thing of 'you know people take things differently, I don't think they meant anything by it really, but I get you feel like that'. Which I appreciate her saying something but not sure how I feel about her feelings on it. The whole thing is just super immature, it's maybe something I would've done as a teenager, but the owner is like 40 something. The other guys don't know as far as I'm aware, their reaction might be the whole, 'lucky guy they're talking about you' type shit. But I dunno its just annoying cos I do try and be respectful of people so to get this disrespect does piss me off. Worst case I would tell her myself, I'm definitely not worried about doing that

I knew someone would say that lol you wouldn't feel like that if you were in the situation. It's not the talking about me sexually necessarily, it's more the fact of being treated one way but knowing that they have all these inside jokes about me, as well as probably sharing pictures etc it's a betrayal of trust and a reduction of you as a person to just basically your genitals

Don't know exactly what you mean by injections. But don't get too caught up on the race thing, i don't really think it's a fetishising thing esp considering the owner is a lesbien(i know confusing), I just brought it up cos optically it doesn't look great

Thanks man, I do want to say something to them but I don't want to implicate the girl I'm talking to, just got to think of the best way. It's the end of the season now though so won't see them regularly for a few months. I hear you bro, I don't mind the odd flirt but obviously there are certain boundaries that need to be kept esp in a work environment. Yeah I guess she shouldn't have told me, but it was obvious one because she was acting a bit shady when she mentioned the group chat but didn't say what they talked about. Also the owner makes comments that are kind of inside jokes, but she'll say it around me so I'm confused to exactly what they're talking about but I know it's at my expense. Basically I knew something was up even without the leak, I just didn't know the extent of it. Yes it is very strange that this behaviour was completely normalised and no one involved even thought, this is a bit fucked up. The same people if they heard they or one of their friends was talked about the same by a bunch of guys would straight away say it's wrong. Madness of crowds I guess

I dont necessarily want to avoid non-duality, I had a period where i was deep into it and listened to a lot of content and read a lot of books about it. Then i had a period where i was going through the motions of being interested in it and slightly worried that me losing interest in it means ive somehow lost the understanding and embodiment of it. Now Ive accepted all these phases and i feel like ive taken it on as my fundamental understanding of the world, but it doesnt mean i have to always be interested in it. Its kinda like if you accept the earth is a globe, youve seen it, youve researched it etc after a while you would lose interest in constantly learning about it as it becomes a fundamental truth for you. But yes i agree its important to develop all parts of you, which i do try and do. yeah patterns i guess im using luck as an interchangeable word there, but yes i believe it plays a massive factor in peoples development. Say with me if I had been born to a really religious family, I could still be in that paradigm now, or have taken longer to be able to think freely. I think theres a temptation to say 'oh im just so great and developed' but life circumstances which seem almost random are actually key to progress. Another thing for me was having OCD, this essentially forced me to investigate and see my thoughts for what they were, if i didnt have OCD that never wouldve happened. As horrible an experience as it was and it couldve even killed me, if i didnt go through it i would be completely different now. I agree i think thats real stuff, wherever you are now is where you are and its temporary. If you build an identity around being yellow or green or whatever, you will have this standard youre trying to live up to and feel like youve failed if you dont reach it at any given time. Much better to be whoever you are in this moment. Sometimes you might actually need to be red or green or orange, i think thats when the spiral wizard description of yellow comes into play, as someone at yellow can see the benefits and the limitations of each stage and use them accordingly

I do believe I'm majority stage yellow, however if someone said I wasnt I dont think it would bother me and its not something I would really say outside this forum, I'm only saying it now to see what conversation gets stoked up. I agree with @Carl-Richard op in that it is a lot about living, not just reading or knowing all the talking points. Where I saw a lot of progress personally was where addressed past traumas, childhood stuff etc but then also made conscious efforts to connect with people wherever they were at. I also sought truth in everything, I regularly take wisdom from religious texts or learn directly from people that speak about them. I would never convert or anything but I believe there is so much wisdom in these texts and what you realise talking to a muslim or a christian is that theyre basically saying the same things, its just the mythos is different. I love living where i live in England because you can speak to such a wide variety of people, I think this is a major advantage in terms of developing, if a grew up in a place where everyone believed the same thing and were homogeneous, I dont think theres anyway I'd be at the same level of development. So i think theres a big element of luck involved in where you are developmentally, it could also be considered lucky to have some trauma in your life whereby you look for answers or you look for deeper meanings in things, whilst trying to heal yourself. Theres so many things i think that contribute to your development that are actually outside of your control. Also what I found is im not that interested in learning much more about non-duality for example, I just want to experience and live life whilst also contributing to society where i can.

I really like him his well, think ive read most of his books if not all. Respect his authenticity and its a shame being authentic isnt as promoted or amplified as much as saying what people want to hear. As far as I know he didnt really do that many interviews or have guests on in the first place so i get the feeling the new content would just be what hes doing now but longer and more in depth

It will be hard to get concrete proof so not sure he'll actually get convicted but for cps to charge him they must have something. I think the chances thar he actually did something that crossed a legal boundary is very high, basically because there are so many stories, some of which he himself has told with extremely questionable behaviour, such as exposing himself to women. Most of the time he'd get away with stuff like that because of his celebrity and the fact a lot of women did like his energy and found him attractive. But take that away if you just had a normal guy running around doing the same shit he'd be arrested very quickly. It's not a stretch to say some women wouldn't have liked what Brand was doing. If you look at the video, he is playful and some could say he's got game, but imagine if the woman wasn't into it.

Well done bro, I agree truly accepting negative thoughts and emotions is a complete game changer, keep going 🙏🏽