Consept

I wasnt necessarily equating feminism to red pill what im saying is that at the extremes of any ideology you tend to get victim narratives that blame another group for all the problems. For example at the extreme end of feminism is something like Female Dating Strategies - https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/ which isnt seeking to tear down the patriarchy in the name of equality they genuinely blame men for their issues in dating and see them as superior, this is the exact mirror image of the extreme red pill, that sub-reddit even has over 250k posters. You could also argue that this can be a pipline into extreme wokism and cancel culture, although I would agree that red pill is much more popular and probably a more potent pipeline to right wing ideologies but im just given an example of the other side. Up until recently red pill was not even close to the mainstream, it was probably closer to where the female equivalent is now, but probably due to high profile grifters like Tate and I would also argue the suppression of things like teaching pick up which, when done well and in a healthy way, could provide men with the tools needed to become better. I think what happened was the cancellation of RSD and similar companies (not saying they were perfect by any means) created a vacuum where the fresh and fits and Tates could clean up. This is where feminism can mis-step because they can see all content from a male perspective as bad but they dont realise that young males do need someone to look up to, so if guys do keep getting cancelled you will eventually get to a guy who completely doesnt give a fuck and will full in grift and tell young men what they want to hear and this is where we are with Tate. So for me this is a problem that needs to be worked out as in how do we provide good role models and purpose for young men in this new society? Because no doing so and being reactionary against all men that attempt to do so can be extremely detrimental for society.

@Emerald Interesting video, I dont think men in general blame women for the perceived masculinity crisis, but definitely a lot of red pill and anti-feminists do. Most if not all ideologies have an extreme element that usually plays up to the victim narrative and creates an enemy that is the reason theyve been held down as a people. You can obviously see this with the blackpill which is built upon this narrative but I'd also argue the extreme end of 3rd wave feminism tends to blame everything on the 'patriarchy', extreme Islam blames the west, extreme Christianity blames liberals etc etc. The victim narrative is very enticing because it absolves the individual from all responsibility and gives them a kind of quest to rid the world of the opposing side, not usually with violence but with ideas. But its all the same just different flavours for different identities.

Try Dr Tian on YouTube, not really red pill per se but I think he's got great advice for guys

I think the idea of being motivated by women, although it seems real, is not really the case as there is so much lying under the surface. Everyone gets primal urges to want to have sex but this could be at least somewhat quenched by paying a sex worker or even just masturbating. So I think really, getting a woman to like you and want to sleep with you offers validation in that you might not like yourself or might feel inferior but if you could get a woman to sleep especially an attractive one that other men want, it means that you are actually worthwhile. If you look at a lot of unhealthy pick up it is mainly based around apeing attractive alpha male traits ie having a fuck boy attitude, not giving the woman attention etc. All of this confirms that you are not good enough internally and you need a persona to attract women but the whole reason youre doing it is to be validated internally. So getting with women seems to be an easy fix for deeper problems, in the same way that a lot of people want to get rich because they sense they lack internally. If you get to the stage where you have genuinely taken care of all your needs you wont be motivated by women in the same way, not to say you will lose interest but they wont offer the same hope that you once put on them.

@mr_engineer In reference to the 2 definitions I gave it's literally copied and pasted from the dictionary, so it can be used both ways, many words can be used in different ways so it's not thevsane as maths.

@mr_engineer I think this just comes down to a definition issue and no one is really wrong here. If you look in the dictionary, the definition for respect has 2 meanings - 1. a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements. "the director had a lot of respect for Douglas as an actor" 2. due regard for the feelings, wishes, or rights of others. "young people's lack of respect for their parents" What I gather what you're talking about is the first definition, in which case of course you don't have to have admiration for everyone automatically. But I'm sure you can agree on definition 2. In which you can have respect for another's rights without necessarily admiring or even liking them as a person. If you say I don't respect women that could mean you don't admire or like them for whatever reason, that would be generalising of course but you could still have a respect for their rights. If someone didn't have respect for another's basic rights no doubt that would leave the door open to not worrying about hurting them etc for example when a new group comes into a country they may not be given that basic level of respect and be treated terribly.

I think maybe taking out the human perspective with an example might help. Let's take dogs, you would have a respect for the life all dogs, it wouldnt be conditional as in you wouldn't say 'this dog is bad so I don't respect its life'. Even if it is bad you might learn of its history and realise that it's acting out because it had a hard life or it wasn't trained properly. Now that doesn't mean you 'like' every dog or want them around you, certain dogs are even dangerous so you might not go near them or you might need strong boundaries, but either way there's a basic respect for their life. When we move to other humans I think because they have more ability to affect us directly, we are more weary of them. Another human has the ability to cause terrible harm to you, we also see ourselves in others. So if someone has a trait that causes us not to respect that person, really we're demonising that trait, including within ourselves. So the stakes are higher as a human, but this is where transcendence comes in and if we can look at it from this perspective it would obvious that every life should be respected, again necessarily liked or admired but respected.

It's strange how when your health gets taken away from you, you suddenly appreciate good health in a way you would've never even comprehended before. Gratitude for what you actually have is so important

You could frame it as though you're either making a choice to respect all humans or you're selectively not giving respect to humans that you don't feel are worthy of your respect. If you respect all humans this is a choice you are making, so the person doesn't have to do anything. This is like love, if you love someone you just love them regardless of what they do. Now in both situations someone might be toxic or affect your peace or whatever and so you may choose to setup a boundary or even stop associating with them, but even within there can be respect. Respect for where they are and how they got there, as in if they are in pain you won't add to it or you won't be disrespectful of them. When you're talking about women, I guess this question must be coming to you because you don't respect some women or women have let you down etc. But still this is a choice you're making to respect all or not and I think as you grow giving respect freely will become natural. Unless you are talking about respecting women as in being a 'nice guy' or simping in which case this again is not really respect it's just you think by being nice you can get the woman to like you, real respect would you just being who you are.

I think the black pill provides a path of least resistance which in any circumstance most people will take an easier path. With pick-up its actually hard work depending on your starting point, there are some PUAs that overpromise even and when guys dont see results they either have anger toward the PUAs or hate themselves because they feel like nothing works and this is when the blackpill can almost seem like a life saver for them because it absolves them of all personal responsibility. It tells them its not their fault because women are shallow and they will never want them because their eye shape is almond or not almond or whatever. I wouldnt even say PUAs are the best to follow but i think, if it doesnt get too toxic it can at least be a starting point and be progress for the guy. As someone else said the whole PUA industry was decimated by #metoo and things like that. But i dont think its a bad thing because now if you do want to be on youtube helping men you actually have to bring healthy content and i think its great to see people like Dr Tian and Hamza or the younger guys who do actually provide healthy advice for men. Its not going to be as popular as things like the black pill because it requires that you do a lot of work but its definitely as step in the right direction.

This is your actual problem and what sub-consciously you want to change. You have the belief that if you can get a girl to sleep with you, you will no longer feel inferior but trust me this is not the case, might as well say if you win the lottery you will no longer feel inferior. This is something that really needs to be looked at and worked on, I would go to a therapist or try and do some shadow work. Once this starts improving, finding a girlfriend won't seem as impossible because you will no longer put your worth into whether some girl likes you or not.

It definitely seems quite shallow how you're explaining it, if there is a larger context you haven't actually touched on it, all of youve said is an exceptional man is one that can proclaim he's exceptional

@Nilsi I think you are interested mainly in the idea if exerting your will on the world. I do get this and it is an important factor in terms of a child becoming an adult and also becoming self actualized, it's essential in fact. I can also understand the holding it above all other things, if you once felt powerless, the idea of having your own individual power to do as you will can be captivating. This is really Tates target, he wants to seem like he is empowering those that feel powerless, he identified this need and capitalises on it. But that shouldn't blind someone to hold anyone who exerts their will on the world in high regard, there should be more discernment than that of course. You can respect Pablo escobars determination and ruthlessness but you can also see that what he did was not right and he left a long trail of victims. Being an exceptional man can not really include intentionally harming people to fulfil selfish desires. If you want a simple definition that being exceptional is just exerting your will on the world regardless of consequences then that is your definition, but it is a very shallow one. Side note I found this talk on Tate quite interesting

@Nilsi ok cool so your definition is any man that can exert his will on the world is exceptional. So in theory if they can't impose their will because they do something illegal and go to prison, by definition they wouldn't be exceptional right? Also what if someone's true will is to not enforce their will despite being capable of it, wouldnt that make them exceptional as well?

@Nilsi The arguments are nowhere to be found because your mind is not open to them and you seem to be avoiding the questions that push your ideas. The point everyone is making is very simple, we asked you what makes an exceptional man because you said an exceptional man should be allowed to assert their will on the world regardless of outcome. Your only criteria for an exceptional man is that they are able to assert they are such. This doesnt really describe an exceptional man because it would also include someone who was delusional, as in the criteria for a professional scientist can not just be that they assert it for example. So the question you don't want to answer is what actually makes an exceptional man in the real world? Yes if you assert it to yourself you can be exceptional in your own head but that will need lead you to be able to assert any will on the world. Please just answer plainly

@Nilsi Bro just get to the point, what makes an exceptional man? And none of this just me seeing it means I am, because if you were in prison and you said that shit youd definitely be an 'exceptional' man's bitch

Yeah you had to give more qualifications, exceptional would denote that you are 'better' than others, you have to be clear in what ways you are 'better'. Just being able to proclaim yourself an exceptional man would be indistinguishable from a deluded man or even someone who is very low confidence and has to say that hes exceptional, hoping that one day he believes it.

I understand your point on an individual level, as in its not one white persons fault that things happened in the past and in fact some white people of course can have harder lives than some black people. The issue, as i see it is more on the macro level, salvery and everything that came after it happened but there was never really an apology or an understanding that wrong was committed even until today. This is not just in America, but caribbean islands etc this, i believe is the reason for hostility from some black people toward white people because there was never really an understanding of the pain inflicted, even today there are many white people that think black people are inferior and probably deserved to be enslaved. If you contrast that with Germany, who made a very conscious effort to make up as much as possible, for the wrongs committed to the Jews it results in a much more unified country. Also take into account that slave owners who had to give up their slaves are still being compensated, even now. Of course this is not any particular individual white persons fault but you can understand the reluctance for black people to just let it go, when their whole history is filled with this trauma and even now when they complain about how theyre treated they arent believed. Its akin to if a woman is abused by several men, it wont be easy for her to trust men, we might say 'look we're not all like that', but you cant blame her for being wary even if technically shes wrong about all men. Its the same with black people its just that its been passed down generations. I think for white people kind of caught in the cross fire the best thing to do is just understand this context.

You say 'we' so i take it you class yourself as an exceptional man, what puts you in this bracket as an exceptional man?

For me an exceptional man would have to have ethics that extended beyond himself otherwise he wouldnt be exceptional he would just be a narcissist at best or psychopath at worst and I wouldnt want them asserting their will on the world in anyway. Some of the biggest genocides in human history have been because of these types of people asserting their will on the world. If you had an exceptional man who had empathy for others and his cone of concern went beyond himself into the actual world then thats fine, assert your will as it would be beneficial for all, but if its just how much you can get and dominate and destroy then whether you like it or not society will have a backlash against you.

Everyone has some form of ethics, really it just depends on how far your scope of concern reaches. Does your ethics include others or does it just include yourself? Tate has ethics in that if someone wrongs him from his perspective he would be against that ie him being put in prison, to him unfairly, is 'wrong'. However his ethics dont extend to other people, hes happy to take advantage of others for his own ends. Ethics are not some ideology that you believe in for the sake of it, although they could be, but really its an attempt to have a society where everyone is better off. If everyone did think like Tate, in that their ethics only extended to themselves it would be a terrible society, most likely someone like Tate would rule over it.

When i mention Tates goals, im not guessing, he himself will say that his aim is to conquer as a king did in days gone by, he will say that he does want to amass as much wealth and power as possible. In of itself theres nothing wrong with this he is free to go ahead, I might think its shallow or not a deserving purpose, which actually i dont really, but if i did i would be free to think and make that judgement as i might hold higher pursuits more worthwhile. Now if we can agree that these are Tates goals and you can call the idea of achieving them beauty if you like, as in its beauty to set a goal and achieve it. Then really you can put any achievement or any individual goal that is achieved in this same bracket, despite the consequences. So for example if im a serial killer i could say there is beauty in me going out and killing 100 people, which is also fine but as you say there is a trade off for the beauty which is the loss that is incurred. This is similar with Tate, if his goal is to achieve money, power, status and he hurts numerous people along the way I would 100% be willing to sacrifice that beauty for the people that hes hurt. For me its not even about 'goodness', Tate doesnt have to good, but what i would label not good is the negative effect he has on people which is calculated, manipulative and deceptive. To me he is a con man, in that he promises much, while taking your money and not really delivering, yes there is an art to that, but lets call it what it is. Also its easy to talk from a distance and pontificate, if you were affected by Tates actions, lets say your sister fell in love with him and ended up doing cam girl work which she later regretted or when you were young and vulnerable you scrapped together 5k to do a course with him that didnt actually get you anywhere you wouldnt be saying 'yeah i was just a necessary sacrifice in the art of Tate getting rich'. You also might say that all these people he gets money from chose to give it to him on some level, which is true, but then that is the genius of Tate and what all con man do, they offer you your wildest dreams, for the cam girl its to fall in love with a strong man and make money, for the men that pay for cam girls its sex/love with a beautiful girl, for the young men that follow him its a strong father figure and a way to become rich and strong themselves. These are all people in need, Tate has an intuitive knack for indentifying these needs, pretending to fulfil them and taking as much money from them in the process. It is art but not an art that should be encouraged and celebrated.

The crucial thing is what are the main drivers and what is the end goal of a person. In Musks case he wants to advance the world in what he believes is the best way, electric cars, rockets etc. He's obviously not doing it for the money as he's already got more money than he could ever spend and also there would be much more easier ways to make money than what he does. He does want power and influence but that's more likely to allow him to complete his goals. With Tate if you look at all his interests there is no higher goal it's simply to amass as much money and power as is possible. So when you say 'actualise their vision', that is his vision. That's fine if people want to support that and help him do that, but the whole point is that he is manipulating people because he makes people think that he does care about them when in actuality manipulating people IS how he's achieving his goal. He needs them to follow him and he also needs their money. This has been a constant through his life. The cam girl business is literally him pretending (as he himself says) to love women and then manipulating them to make him money, which he gets by manipulating guys to fall in love with the girls and then using more manipulative tactics to milk as much money from them as possible. This is exploitation on exploitation, this is Tates true skill and this is what amassed his fortune. Why would he just stop at that, he's using those some skills and using it on a different demographic, young men. He's giving them exactly what they want and getting as much money as they can give, its the same thing. Musk is not even close to this, people work with Musk knowing upfront what he's trying to do, whether he's a good boss or not is another question, but Tate is completely different

This is video from a Christian guy about Tates conversion. Obviously the Christian guy is defensive of his religion but he sums up why Tates reasoning for converting is dumb quite well

@StarStruck No ones saying Tate needs to be saint or that normal people don't want to make money. Hear what I'm saying, most people are not that interested in fame, power and amassing wealth in the same way Tate is, as in they're not willing to manipulate and screw over others to get it, simply because the trade off isn't worth it for them. Generally for most people they just want a decent job, family etc, Tate might look at those people and from his perspective he might see them as losers because they don't have the same drives as him. These drives that he has allow him to take advantage of people without any remorse, in fact he has bragged about taking advantage of men on podcasts. So when you say 'he cares about men a lot', from his actions imo this is not true at all. Even his 'caring' involves taking as much money as he can from these young men. Yes every therapist or professional takes money from their client, but then the difference is the therapist is not making claims that they can make you enough money where you don't have to work or even an equivalent of they will sort out all your problems, in fact if they can't help you they'll refer you to someone else or even tell you that you don't need anymore sessions in most cases anyway. Tate is doing something different, which is taking advantage of people in need and this is what he has always done throughout his life. There maybe some things you could take from him but I don't think most of his followers are capable of doing this without buying in completely.