Consept

This is an excellent summation, when i worked in a youth charity we had the police come in to train us on radicalization and what to look out for. This was for both far right and muslims because i live in a mixed area. What Majid said here is pretty much how it goes down. Them claiming benefits and working is not really a thing, I dont think they can even claiming benefits til they get residency, so non-EU its not a thing and in general its not because fraudulently claiming can have harsh sentences. What i have seen is Illegal immigrants working cash in hand, that definitely happens but im not sure on what scale and thats more of an issue of catching illegals, which no one is against.

Heres the thing and thanks for your question, we have to estimate the actual danger to physical safety the people in question and what their perceived threat is. Its important because if it is genuinely less safe then it would be a policing or tighter immigration issue, if its just perception then its really just trying to educate them or deradicalize them. If we look at this graph in the link, crime has been quite dramatically decreasing overall for 30 years and by nearly 90% - https://theconversation.com/most-crime-has-fallen-by-90-in-30-years-so-why-does-the-public-think-its-increased-228797#:~:text=As of 2024%2C violence%2C burglary,variations in reporting and recording. So the perception is whats the issue, thats talked about in the linked article as well. If we take the perception, there should be a crackdown on misinformation as well as education around the subject. These are pretty much down to the government in terms of decision making, hopefully this should improve under Labour, there are significant resources being put into what they call levelling up. However there are opportunities now which people may not be going for, so again this could be a perception issue. Also British do not want to work low level jobs and higher level jobs require qualifications, the last government put in place that people receiving benefits should do courses and they generally pushed them into work, which has its pros and cons. I think another factor is people dont may not feel that they have a purpose. In the 70s, 80s and 90s hooligans caused a tremendous amount of public nuisance and crime, but the hooligans felt satiated in their purpose. I dont really know how you give people purpose, I guess oppurtunities and engagement It will never go back to their fairytale of English culture. What i do know is back then they were definitely worse off. Culture evolves it is what it is, but English culture has also influenced every immigrant that has come to the country. Also keep in mind when English go abroad they are known for being the worst at integrating. Theres nearly a million living in Spain and i guarantee you most do not know Spanish. But yeah i agree the cats out of the bag on this one

This is what you call cherry picking, literally 88% of all sexual abuse of minors convictions are white men and youre stuck up on grooming gangs. I like how when its white people its insane one off guys but muslims its something else. I dont even get your second point, its not the impression its more present among white people its actually 88% of convictions, i dont get what you dont understand. It means if white people stopped doing it sexual abuse would decrease by 88%, if muslims stopped doing it, it would decrease by 7%, if i had to chose one to target itd definitely be white people. Heres the stats btw - https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1ekjf49/child_sexual_abuse_in_202223_ethnicity_of/ Since youre obsessed by grooming gangs here are a selection of white ones in the last few years, they tend to call them pedophile rings when its white people, not sure why - https://news.sky.com/story/seven-members-of-paedophile-gang-guilty-of-running-monstrous-child-sex-abuse-ring-13008082 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11942601/Seven-women-jailed-total-58-years-paedophile-gang-21-guilty-abuse.html https://metro.co.uk/2017/11/16/white-paedophile-ring-held-girl-hostage-and-forced-her-into-prostitution-7084115/ https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/11/seven-members-paedophile-gang-jailed Heres a report on how the far right exploit sex abuse survivors to promote hate toward muslims. In the report they talk to actual survivors bout their experience - https://bylinetimes.com/2024/06/01/special-investigation-the-network-of-far-right-groups-exploiting-the-survivors-of-child-sexual-exploitation/

Labour has always been center left, more center if anything, the PM has already said Trans women shouldnt compete against women. But I think conservatives are more obsessed with the trans issue in America, of all things to focus on just seems crazy

Break down the 2 tier policing for me. In terms of migration you have to see British people on general don't want to do low level jobs, very few want to be cleaners or fast food workers or farm workers, why would they when they can get nearly the same not working? But someone needs to do these jobs and the ones that work thr hardest doing low level jobs are immigrants, there's no way around this. UK nearly came to a standstill after brexit when they couldn't get enough truck drivers, remember when Boris allowed EU citizens to come and work temporarily? Its definitely not just stem we need, the nhs is on its knees partly because they can't get new immigrants in to work and do 12 hour nursing shifts. If we didn't have immigration we'd be screwed.

To be fair the left haven't been in power, not even left, center left, haven't been in power for 14 years, so hopefully there will be changes for the better. The last time they were I'm power it was one of the most prosperous times for Britain as a whole, just shouldn't have got caught up in the Iraq and Afghanistan issues. I'm hopeful anyway.

Bro its not the left thats demonised them its the right that has amped them if with constant fear mongering, where do you think these ideas they have come from? What happened to personal responsibility that the conservatives are always talking about? Daily Mail, Talk TV GB News etc have been running fear mongering stories for years, the whole Brexit campaign was lies upon lies. Heres a good video that just came out - No im not upset that England isnt England in a hundred years, progress takes time. Theyre upset that England isnt a fantasy England from 70 years ago. At the moment this far-right element has been highly motivated and still only 4 million of them voted for reform, which is something like 6% of the population, so however you want to spin they are the minority. Not only that young people vote overwhelmingly left in general. So its over for them, im happy with how England is and it has improved a lot youre right, im not complaining about it, they are. We're just calling out bullshit. (By we i mean most of UK) Their numbers for the riots are not even close to the counter-protests. This is not America where is nearly 50% maga, theyve already lost its just how do we go forward working together

What does taking responsibility look like? If the conservatives, amongst others, have sold them lies and promised them that theyre gonna do this and that and that theyll be better off and then when its worse than before they point the finger at legal or unprocessed immigrants, what are we supposed to do. We're all suffering from cost of living, our ire should be aimed at the government not each other. The issue is that you cant stoke up hatred that doesnt already lie dormant in people. You have to understand this country has had an issue with racism forever, but in recent times since when the caribbeans came in the 50s and 60s to settle when the UK needed workers. There were national front skinheads that terrorised black and asian people in the 70s and 80s, football hooliganism, all kinds of racial discrimination from the police. All of this has improved but in areas that are 95% white they still have that sentiment. Keep in mind there werent even that many immigrants back then and they were all specifically here to work. Even today white British people are 80% of the country. So this is nothing to do with these people being treated poorly or being let down they have this sentiment historically, whatevers going in economically. Now where i could agree is that Labour and the left need to press home their message stronger about why we are in this mess, but again its hard to with a lot of misinformation, but yeah the messaging could be better.

This racist sentiment in the UK has been there for as long as i can remember amongst a certain demographic. There will always be some kind of economic stability, the question is who is getting blamed for it. If youve got people with platforms claiming its because of immigrants and brown people then of course thats gonna fire up some peoples hatred. In fact i would say racism was improving up until social media really started kicking off, now its given rise to people spreading misinformation about things like immigration. Education system isnt terrible, of course it could be improved. What is a big factor is the conservatives cutting funding for youth services by like 80%, it was actually ridiculous and i have worked in youth services previously. Since theyve done that there have been rises in gangs and young people getting into criminal behavior, because theres nothing for a lot of them, especially vulnerable ones. We used to have lots of youth clubs but tons got shut down.

Well the rioters care and reform care because thats a big part of what theyre complaining about, the money it costs for immigration, but obviously this is not much of a problem. So theyve been misinformed basically and their anger has been stoked up by lies. Societies constantly change, for your country to grow and expand you need people, it is what it is, its happened with every civilzation. If the UK didnt get people from abroad to come and work and didnt expand their colonies across the world (invaded is another word) then the wouldnt be anywhere near the wealth they are now. You can feel how you want about it, but thats facts. A big part of this was also that they claimed he was muslim which led to mosques being attacked and this rhetoric about muslim grooming gangs (even though 89% of sexual abuse on kids i commited by white males)

@Alex M answered this succinctly but just to add - The rumors caught fire when Nigel Farage tweeted about them, when questioned on an LBC Radio show this week, he said he got the information from 'Andrew Tate and others'. Andrew Tate when questioned by Piers Morgan basically said he maybe got one thing wrong about the information. Some people say that a lot of white English people are annoyed about the muslim grooming gangs and this was the spark that lit them for these riots, but in reality 89% of child sexual abuse prosecutions are white people, which is actually an over representation of their population. They should be rioting against themselves. First off immigration is not really costing us what people think - "According to UCL, immigrants from outside the EU make a net fiscal contribution of about £5.2 billion to the UK, which is about 3% more than they take out. The Office for National Statistics (ONS) also estimates that migrants contribute around £83 billion to the UK's economic output annually." This isnt to say there should be open borders but obviously if immigration is done right it can actually be profitable. In terms of why poverty is increasing, it is a lot to do with bad decisions from the government, including the whole brexit nonsense, terrible policies such as the Rwanda immigration idea which cost nearly a billion and has been abandoned, all the covid shenanigans. But realistically the big hit has been the energy crisis due to Russia invading Ukraine, meaning that are over reliance on Russia for energy cost us dearly. In real terms energy bills almost doubled or tripled, so if you were close to the poverty line this would push you over it. This also had a knock on affect in terms of cost of living, because services and goods became more expensive due to the rising costs on the businesses. If you add in stagnating wages, of course the people at the bottom would be worse off. It didnt help that shipping stuff from the EU is more expensive as well. There are other causes but the Russian energy is a big one. Id also add in the conservatives stupid trickle down economics, which is basically encouraging rich people to come to London by giving them tax breaks at our expense, with the hope that theyll bring jobs and development. They came but basically just parked money here without creating any jobs. Theyd even buy expensive property and keep it vacant just to sit on it as it increased in value. London isnt sketch af, stats wise knife crime has gone up over the last 15 years or so, but murders are down, anti-social behavior i down, gun crime is down. Its not what you see in social media at all, its just these things get reported the most. For example places like Glasgow and Leicestershire have very high levels of crime but you probably never really hear about it.

Im not trying to be harsh on you because youre probably young and ill informed, but literally everything you claim is nonsense. Irish are white that is true but theyre Catholic, which is important because they were persecuted by the British for years, which led to them rising up and committing terrorist acts on Britain, similar to whats happening in Israel now. So if youre literally saying white people dont bring problems because theyre white, no persecuted people bring problems if theyre persecuted no matter where theyre from. Wheres is your info from? Yeah that sounds accurate, you convince yourself of something and then find as many stories as possible to confirm it, confirmation bias yep

You don't see the irony of trying to ban immigration to your country whilst at the same time immigrating to another country? The only reason he can live in another European country is because of his immigrant Irish dna, you can't make this shit up And no not every murder in France is committed by Africans, what are you on about?

His mum was Scottish as well. But yeah its an interesting point, ive noticed in reports of when lets say, a white English person commits a crime its usually attributed to them being mentally ill or some other reason, which is probably true but their race is never a factor. When it comes to people with say African heritage this is always front and center. An interesting case study is the difference in treatment by the media around the Thomas Evans case and Shemima Begum. Evans was a 25 year old, white English male who converted to Islam and joined a terrorist Jihad group and ended up dying in Somalia in a war. The media reports are mainly around the family being let down by British services who didnt stop him, there was a documentary about getting him back from wherever he was. The sentiment was that he'd been brainwashed and radicalised and if his family could just get him back with the help of the British government, everything would be ok. Shemima Begum was similarly radicalised and moved with 2 other girls to the middle east to join Isis. She was I believe a muslim, born in the UK to Pakistani parents. She was 15 when she moved, a minor. When they joined Isis they arranged a marriage for them, and she ended up having i think 3 kids that all died. Her friends died as well. She eventually escaped Isis however shes had her citizenship revoked and is not allowed to come back into the country, despite all her family being here, they wont even hear her case. The general sentiment is that she deserves what she gets, she knew what she was doing and she probably still believes Isis stuff and doesnt care about the UK, it just didnt work out for her. The difference in treatment, i think is stark and if you are white for a generation or 2, no matter where your parents are from you will be seen as accepted by the UK anyway. Whereas even if you have 3 or 4 generations as some Asian and black people do have in the UK, you still will be treated differently.

His points are not precise as he claims another accurate word to describe them is bullshit. If all the crimes hes seeing on the news are committed by Africans that would indicate a heavily biased media or hes only consuming content that reports Africans committing crimes, both would essentially be highly prejudiced. Also the type of stats would be very important, for example, if you just looked at number of arrests that could show you that a lot of immigrants are getting arrested but not necessarily committing crimes if these dont lead to convictions. The point is that far right people attacked mosques because they believed him to be a muslim, immigrant and he is none of these.

Yes he has been named it was a person born in Wales with Rwandan heritage. Russia were probably involved in misinformation but we know for sure tommy robinson was as he posted that it was a muslim immigrant

There are statistics you just dont want to quote them cos they dont back what youre saying. Its not that i feel targeted its just youre literally saying things with no back up, how do you know its majority Africans when you dont have any stats or are you claiming its only africans they do reports on? Just sounds like nonsense to me bro

Its almost as if voting the way they did made no difference to their personal circumstances Interesting, looking at the different cities, basically they have been done a disservice and have been manipulated to vote against their best interest. These places are typical of what i was talking about in terms of the population make up, Hull is 94% white, Boston 93.3%. Its so strange that even though they see such a small percentage of non-white people but still blame all their problems on them, it shows the power of deception that people like Farage are capable of

The lower class has been heard, thats partly why we're in the mess we're in. They got a conservative government whove fucked up the country for the last 14 years, theyve got their brexit which was and continues to be a disaster, UKIP and now Reform have got seats in parliament. So no they have been listened to. But yeah i agree the financial issues have thrown fuel on the fire but these are not really to do with immigrants, the crisis was mainly due to the crash in 2008 and then covid and also brexit as well just a general terrible management of the economy.

Yeah definitely and thats an interesting thought experiment. So i can empathise with them in that its a nature that we all have within us, that kind of purple tribal thinking but its completely outdated. Even the conservative party wouldnt claim them because their mindset just doesnt work in modern society, its so low conscious, Conservatives didnt even really want brexit. Essentially these people become useful idiots for those trying to grab power.

Its not true, show statistics if so. Also Id be looking for convictions not arrests. Where are you?

I agree with you, fear is at the bottom of this. Whatever arguments they have are just a flimsy cover for the fear and hatred that they have. What's interesting is that this mindset is more prominent in areas that are heavily white, as in 98% white, so these are people that don't actually come into contact with non-white people regularly and are not really affected by them. Their fear is allowed tp fester because they haven't got any real life experience they can draw upon. In a way I can understand that, imagine you never came across let's say cats, and all you hear is how bad and dangerous they are and how theyre ruining the country, of course you would hate them. But I agree this is a complete feelings issues and is leading to some decisions that make no logical sense. Brexit of course but also claiming immigrants are costing taxpayer money but then going on a rampage through the country which will probably cost more money.

Yeah anti-immigration is a go to for those trying to get into power. It's an easy way to get the population scared and have a perceived enemy thats 'invading' (the word they actually use) your country. You can blame all societies issues on them. This isn't new they've been doing this everywhere for years, most if not all genocides are because of these ideas. But all it comes down to is someone trying to gain money and power by whipping up the masses and they fall for it everytime

The reality is we need a healthy level of immigration, the NHS is on its knees largely due to many workers having to go back after brexit and us not being able to recruit as easily from overseas. As well the low level jobs that British people don't want to do could easily be taken and were previously taken by immigrants. However there has to be a sensible immigration policy, whereby people are processed and are able to bring something to the country. Refuges are a different situation and that's what a lot of the rioters are complaining about. Either way Britain has always been able to set its own immigration policy its just fumbled it basically and the average brexit leave voter thought that being out of Europe would let us do it but it was never the case. Conservatives had 14 years to sort it out and they just wasted more money and left the country worse off, immigration wise. If you're asking whether there will be some kind of civil war or endless unrest, I just don't think the nationalists have enough behind them, majority of people don't want them having any power and those in power wouldn't be able to have those type of sentiments and get in power. What Farage and Robinson have managed to do is Stoke up the underlying sentiment that was already there but what you're seeing now is the maximum of that, I don't think it will get worse than this, although I may be wrong of course. Also keep in mind that the Conservative vote has been steadily declining amongst young people for a long time now. What will eventually happen is the nationalistic sentiment and votes will decline and more progressive young voters will increase. The Conservative party will die out, being replaced by something like Reform. Politics will become more polarised. However I am optimistic, I think things will improve, I'm hopeful that Keir Starmer can at least be common sense pm with good intentions but we will see. What the nationalists are trying to do is take the UK back to 60s or 70s which will not happen and they wo t have enough man power to overturn anything. The tide has turned and societies change, they are just a backlash to inevitable change.

this is the type of belief system these idiots have. Ill give you lot a quick rundown of this, i probably am biased but whatever. Im mixed race mainly British and Nigerian, born and raised in London. There's always a contingent of white British people who didn't want any brown or black people in the country. Britain through history has taken over many countries around the world, calling it the commonwealth, they took resources but also got the various to believe they were part of the UK. Many citizens grew up believing this and saw Britain as their homeland. In the 50s many Caribbean people were invited to work in the UK with the promise of a better life, they were welcomed off the ships to racism and hatred from the locals. Shifted into various ghettos no matter their standing in their own countries. This also happened with Indians in the 60s and Africans in the 80s and 90s. This racist contingent shrunk during the 90s or at least were not as outspoken as before. However in recent years due to the government's poor handling of immigration and various policies, it led to the rise of people like Tommy Robinson and Niger Farage who through straight up lies, make the immigration problem look much worse than it actually is as well as pointing the finger directly at the immigrants as well as people born in the country but with African or Asian heritage. This hatred has nothing really to do with immigrantion or violence they allegedly bring, its old school racism, basically a fear of what is different or of society's inevitable changes. One note is that these attacks could never happen in places like London or Birmingham, because of the diversity in these places no one wants these people coming in. Also in most places in the UK these racists are not wanted, what they're doing is taking the train and travelling miles away to different towns, its the same people, so it doesn't represent the sentiments of the towns themselves. In normal towns people do actually get on, when these people come their sole intention is to stir up discontent. In most cases it doesn't work as the locals counter protest and outnumber them. Side note, fuck Elon Musk who said a civil war is inevitable underneath a video of the riots. For him to be commenting that blasé from his mansion in the states when actual real people are being affected like its some fun game, fuck him. Anyway there are positives and a lot of genuinely good people in this country, like this guy